General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%

  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%

  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%

  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%

  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%

  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%

  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%
  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
Silva said:
He's saying we should stop creating the conditions for terrorism to be possible. Stop destroying other countries and turning them into terror training hotbeds, stop selling arms to nations that sponsor terrorism, stop cutting police budgets. Stopping the attacks isn't as simple as going through a thesaurus and finding the best word to condemn the terrorists, you also have to create the conditions where people don't want to bomb you in the first place.
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It's not enough to say we should stop creating conditions for terrorists. Do you really think if we looked the other way and did not get involved they would go away? Foreign policy is not why ISIS hate us. They hate everything we stand for so will hate and bomb us whether we have the foreign policy we have or not. I agree police numbers are down and I'd be happier with more of them....having said that they are hugely successful at stopping attacks (13 in 2 years) and they and the rest of the security forces are doing a good job rounding up the terror cell around Manchester.
 
Marching said:
It's not enough to say we should stop creating conditions for terrorists. Do you really think if we looked the other way and did not get involved they would go away? Foreign policy is not why ISIS hate us. They hate everything we stand for so will hate and bomb us whether we have the foreign policy we have or not. I agree police numbers are down and I'd be happier with more of them....having said that they are hugely successful at stopping attacks (13 in 2 years) and they and the rest of the security forces are doing a good job rounding up the terror cell around Manchester.
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The point is ISIS wouldn't exist if wasn't for our foreign policy. Perhaps we should stop pretending history started at the latest terror attack and look at the decades of misguided and horrific wars we started that have lead us where we are. How many times are we going to ship weapons and soldiers abroad, and continue to be surprised when someone attacks us?
 
Marching said:
It's not enough to say we should stop creating conditions for terrorists. Do you really think if we looked the other way and did not get involved they would go away? Foreign policy is not why ISIS hate us. They hate everything we stand for so will hate and bomb us whether we have the foreign policy we have or not. I agree police numbers are down and I'd be happier with more of them....having said that they are hugely successful at stopping attacks (13 in 2 years) and they and the rest of the security forces are doing a good job rounding up the terror cell around Manchester.
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Do you think every war we've been in during the last 20 years has made us safer? Or even those countries safer?
 
It's amazing how selling arms to everyone with a buck is fine because those companies pay taxes, but if you point out the consequences of funding every conflict going you're a terrorist sympathiser.
 
Absolutely agree with Corbyn what he said about the terrorism .And to see the scoring of political points disguised as fake outrage is laughable .
 
Silva said:
The point is ISIS wouldn't exist if wasn't for our foreign policy. Perhaps we should stop pretending history started at the latest terror attack and look at the decades of misguided and horrific wars we started that have lead us where we are. How many times are we going to ship weapons and soldiers abroad, and continue to be surprised when someone attacks us?
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We will have to agree to disagree. ISIS want to impose their warped version of Islam on us all.

Smores said:
Do you think every war we've been in during the last 20 years has made us safer? Or even those countries safer?
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The errors we and the rest of the coalition have made is we left a vacuum behind rather than staying longer. But to pretend the likes of ISIS would not be around if we simply ignored problems around the world is daft.
 
Jippy said:
Latest Tory press release.

Fallon: There is never an excuse for terrorism

Responding to Jeremy Corbyn’s suggestion that British foreign policy was the cause of this week’s terrorist atrocity, the Defence Secretary, Sir Michael Fallon, said:

“Jeremy Corbyn could be Prime Minister of our country in less than two weeks’ time yet he has said only days after one of the worst terrorist atrocities this country has ever known that terror attacks in Britain are our own fault.

“There can be no ‘buts’ when it comes to condemning the unspeakable evil carried out by these extremists. There are no justifications, and there is never an excuse for terrorism. Let me spell something out for Mr Corbyn: There are no excuses for what was done in Manchester.

“This isn’t some slip of the tongue. Jeremy Corbyn is a very consistent man, he has a very long track-record of siding with people who want to damage and attack Britain. He and his team come from an extreme and ideological world that is too quick to make excuses for the actions of our enemies and too willing to oppose the measures and people that keep us safe.

“The choice has just become even starker: it’s between Theresa May, acting to protect our national interest and keep our country safe, and Jeremy Corbyn, who is simply not up to the job.”

ENDS
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Fecking knew it.
 
Marching said:
We will have to agree to disagree. ISIS want to impose their warped version of Islam on us all.



The errors we and the rest of the coalition have made is we left a vacuum behind rather than staying longer. But to pretend the likes of ISIS would not be around if we simply ignored problems around the world is daft.
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Well then you agree with Corbyn that foreign policy errors have been made. How any government prevents these in the future is obviously a big question but a goverment that admits those errors and is aware of repercussions is vital.

Tories on the other hand have been denying any links or errors this morning so there you go.
 
Fallon being a representative of my alma mater makes me sad. He's such a wee shitebag.
 
Marching said:
We will have to agree to disagree. ISIS want to impose their warped version of Islam on us all.



The errors we and the rest of the coalition have made is we left a vacuum behind rather than staying longer. But to pretend the likes of ISIS would not be around if we simply ignored problems around the world is daft.
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The reason there was a vacuum was because of our actions in the first place. The real pretence here is that there was any justification for those wars in the first place.
 
Marching said:
We will have to agree to disagree. ISIS want to impose their warped version of Islam on us all.



The errors we and the rest of the coalition have made is we left a vacuum behind rather than staying longer. But to pretend the likes of ISIS would not be around if we simply ignored problems around the world is daft.
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Maybe the Tories will send our Foreign Secretary on a peacemaking tour of the middle-east.
 
Smores said:
The he has said part seems to be crossing a line doesn't it? I can see repercussions on that
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It also shows us that the defense secretary doesn't understand the political history and the creation of power vacuums that have meant organisations such as ISIS have been able to grow, which itself is concerning. You don't put a fire out by throwing sticks at it and then blindly walking off.
 
Untied said:


The attack line is not going to work either judging by this poll
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Is it a select audience or was it a public poll? If it was the latter, obviously there are more left-wing Labour supporters online.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
I think you are well aware of which one i am referring to.

I never endorsed that attack on refugees, never promoted it here or anywhere else. And i shall criticise May when she likely uses this incident to further her previously announced internet restrictions. I won't be saying 'great speech' and 'well done' just because i've voted Tory in the past. My reaction is in line with what i said on Tuesday regarding the exploitation of events.

Now if other posters agree with Corbyn's professed views, be they through the Morning Star, StW or during his time as leader, that is for them to square with their politics.
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No I'm a little confused actually.

I think you're referring to the 'Breaking Point' poster whilst still seemingly willing to still defend the ACTUAL use of a tragedy to score political points (or to try and mitigate any damage it may have caused) in order to attack someone for doing something that they didn't do and haven't said. I wonder what you would have said if the shoe was on the other foot with that one? Something about the mask slipping maybe?
 
altodevil86 said:
Is it a select audience or was it a public poll? If it was the latter, obviously there are more left-wing Labour supporters online.
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The yougov live polls are done on their website. In my experience of using it they skew heavily conservative.
 
Corbyn drew a link between the Libyan intervention of 2011 and the attack in Manchester, the implication being that one led to the other. Has he seen any evidence, or is the arena bombing a convenience?

Over the longer term, he has made no practical suggestions for improving the situation on the ground. The Russians and the Qataris can do as they please in Libya.


Mozza said:
'Austerity has to stop at the A&E ward and at the police station door' - great line
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We lost both of those locally and the process began under Labour.
 
altodevil86 said:
Is it a select audience or was it a public poll? If it was the latter, obviously there are more left-wing Labour supporters online.
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It's self selecting, by the look of it.
 
Smores said:
Well then you agree with Corbyn that foreign policy errors have been made. How any government prevents these in the future is obviously a big question but a goverment that admits those errors and is aware of repercussions is vital.

Tories on the other hand have been denying any links or errors this morning so there you go.
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Of course mistakes have been made, it's human nature to make mistakes. No policy is perfect but to think Corbyn, who has opposed every serious piece of anti-terrorism legislation, will do anything different is asking a bit much.
 
Silva said:


From YouGov. Looks like old people are going to feck us one last time before biting the dust.
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If he can keep the momentum going then you never know. His focus should be on motivating the youth to get out and vote - tell them that their voices will be heard, free beer etc.
 
Marching said:
Of course mistakes have been made, it's human nature to make mistakes. No policy is perfect but to think Corbyn, who has opposed every serious piece of anti-terrorism legislation, will do anything different is asking a bit much.
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His point is that those pieces of legislation haven't tackled the core issue, so why would he vote for them?
 
Mozza said:
No. They'very actually moved in to attacking the timing of the speech rather than it's content
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I only get sky news so my perspective might be slightly skewed, but it comes across as desperate to attack him so vehemently for stating the obvious. Especially considering that they're doing exactly what they are blaming him of doing, making a political point (In the segments I saw on Sky I really didn't anything truly objectionable, it was all very carefully worded and cautious not to offend).
 
Silva said:
Free beer? Where? Who cares, I'm in.
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Oh, I'm sorry. That was a lie just to get your vote, now please make your way back to the salt mine.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Corbyn drew a link between the Libyan intervention of 2011 and the attack in Manchester, the implication being that one led to the other. Has he seen any evidence, or is the arena bombing a convenience?

Over the longer term, he has made no practical suggestions for improving the situation on the ground. The Russians and the Qataris can do as they please in Libya.


We lost both of those locally and the process began under Labour.
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Just so we're clear are you referring to this section of his speech?

We will also change what we do abroad. Many experts, including professionals in our intelligence and security services have pointed to the connections between wars our government has supported or fought in other countries, such as Libya, and terrorism here at home.

That assessment in no way reduces the guilt of those who attack our children. Those terrorists will forever be reviled and implacably held to account for their actions.
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Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Corbyn drew a link between the Libyan intervention of 2011 and the attack in Manchester, the implication being that one led to the other. Has he seen any evidence, or is the arena bombing a convenience?

Over the longer term, he has made no practical suggestions for improving the situation on the ground. The Russians and the Qataris can do as they please in Libya.
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His general point appears to be in general that misguided interventionism in the Middle East and surrounding areas leaves power vacuums which are thereby occupied by terrorist groups such as ISIS, who then use said interventionism to try and recruit and strengthen their numbers, which isn't a particularly ridiculous point. I don't think Corbyn's argument is supposed to be that our intervention in Libya is the sole reason to blame for the attacks in Manchester happening, and any attempt to construe his words as such strikes me as being willfully ignorant.

I'm wary of some apologist-type arguments because they can often end up blaming the West too much when the ultimate responsibility still lies with the monsters who carry out these attacks, but I do think it's a fair point that foreign policy largely hasn't worked, and that if we're selling weapons on to countries like Saudi Arabia we're only fueling further conflict.
 
rcoobc said:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/13-ways-experts-just-tore-10503785

Vote Lib Dem
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I'm all for someone going Lib Dem in the wider context if it's the party they genuinely support, or if they're in a marginal constituency where they prefer the Lib Dems to the alternative choice and they have a reasonable chance of getting in, but it's going to be a wasted vote in most places. They had a strong chance to rebuild during this election but Farron's being a bit shite as leader and thus they're not looking all too much stronger than 2015 even though they had the perfect breeding ground to show improvement.
 
Ubik said:
Going down in flames with you on this one, robo.
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To nick Owen Jones' line I'd rather be arguing with a Labour government than fighting a Conservative one. Unless you live in a Lib Dem/Tory battleground there's not really much excuse for voting Lib Dem under FPTP.
 
Prime Clegg pre-Tuition fees would have mopped up the centrist vote. Would probably have made it 30-30-30 I reckon.
 
altodevil86 said:
Prime Clegg pre-Tuition fees would have mopped up the centrist vote. Would probably have made it 30-30-30 I reckon.
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Aye, he was coming close at certain points in 2010 and I believe even briefly led some polls. Considering Cameron was much stronger than May and Labour were a lot more united behind Brown, he'd have posed a proper threat.

Even now the Lib Dems could do worse than bringing back Clegg. So much has happened since 2015 I reckon he could get away with all the coalition/tuition fee jibes on the basis of being very strong over Brexit etc.
 
Untied said:
To nick Owen Jones' line I'd rather be arguing with a Labour government than fighting a Conservative one. Unless you live in a Lib Dem/Tory battleground there's not really much excuse for voting Lib Dem under FPTP.
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Meh, my vote matters not a shit here anyway.
Cheesy said:
Aye, he was coming close at certain points in 2010 and I believe even briefly led some polls. Considering Cameron was much stronger than May and Labour were a lot more united behind Brown, he'd have posed a proper threat.

Even now the Lib Dems could do worse than bringing back Clegg. So much has happened since 2015 I reckon he could get away with all the coalition/tuition fee jibes on the basis of being very strong over Brexit etc.
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They should just go with Clegg, Farron's not a convincing middle grounder at all and even tainted Clegg would be doing much better.
 
Ubik said:
They should just go with Clegg, Farron's not a convincing middle grounder at all and even tainted Clegg would be doing much better.
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If Cable gets back in, could probably do worse than him. Surely one of the others would do an alright job, though? Baffles me that Farron won.
 
Cheesy said:
If Cable gets back in, could probably do worse than him. Surely one of the others would do an alright job, though? Baffles me that Farron won.
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He was clean from the coalition meltdown - often voted against the whip. If you notice, in debates he will bring it up a lot.
 
altodevil86 said:
He was clean from the coalition meltdown - often voted against the whip. If you notice, in debates he will bring it up a lot.
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Suppose so, yeah. A shame Kennedy is no longer with us - very good politician who might have done a good job stepping back in, had he been able to win a seat.
 
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