General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%

  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%

  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%

  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%

  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%

  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%

  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%
  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
Lord Megadrive said:
I don't trust May, as she seems to change her principals to whatever would get her power. The fact she was remain until she saw that she could become leader if she became Brexit is something I found very concerning.

I would vote corbyn but the problem is that there has already been a failed attempt to oust him as leader of the Labour Party. If he became PM how long before he would lose control of the party?
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You've articulated pretty much how I feel about this election.

I like the Labour manifesto (at least it has specifics) whereas the Tories manifesto is vague and seems to be "more of the same".
I'm not sure that our social welfare and health systems can take any more "austerity", especially the NHS.

I'm concerned that the estimates from increased income/corp tax are overstated and as someone who is lucky enough to be affected by these tax increases, I'm worried that if a shortfall occurs, there may be even higher raises in store for me in the future.

As far as the leaders go, if May gets blown off course this easily and this publicly, it doesn't bode well for EU/Brexit negotiations. If I were an EU negotiator I think I'd prefer to have May as my opponent.

Wasn't the attempt at removing Corbyn related to concerns that Labour were becoming un-electable? If he delivers Labour into power it will consolidate his position and nullify that position no?

I'd like to add that this thread has been extremely informative with some great debating going on, well done to you all!
 
As I've said in this thread before, shy Tories will be the shyest they've ever been about voting for the arms dealing vicar's daughter and this manifesto. But yes, the idea of some of the cnuts at Tory HQ losing sleep over the polls is a nice one.
 
I would think that if corbyn won, the last thing that would happen is another coup, simply because it would be utterly pointless. No one else in the party could beat him in a leadership election if he wins a general election.

For the polls, it is not just about 'shy tories' this time. There is another factor, probably bigger, and that is the youth vote. 2 million under 25s registered to vote after the election was announced, corbyn has a massive 60%+ of those voters, and ALL weighted polls you see balance against the young voters because historically they simply do not turn out on the day. That is, when they interview younger voters, they weigh their responses much less than any other age group.
 
Nogbadthebad said:
I would think that if corbyn won, the last thing that would happen is another coup, simply because it would be utterly pointless. No one else in the party could beat him in a leadership election if he wins a general election.

For the polls, it is not just about 'shy tories' this time. There is another factor, probably bigger, and that is the youth vote. 2 million under 25s registered to vote after the election was announced, corbyn has a massive 60%+ of those voters, and ALL weighted polls you see balance against the young voters because historically they simply do not turn out on the day. That is, when they interview younger voters, they weigh their responses much less than any other age group.
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Those were applications to register, many will be duplicates.

And yes, they do tend to weight younger voters down because historically younger voters always overestimate how likely they are to vote (part of this is because politically active ones are often more likely to respond to surveys - this was one of the reasons of the big miss in 2015).

EDIT - Also, your figures are a little out, about 1 million under 25s applied to register between 18th April and 22nd May, the other million is the 25-34 group (which Labour still lead by a lot in, but not by as much).
 
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That's the case every time I really do think the left have to reconsider seemingly now constantly relying on a demographic that consistently shows they don't turn up in as bigger numbers as they say they will

The parties that win the elections are the parties that has the biggest centrist appeal not those who make calculations based on if everybody under 25 and everybody who has never voted votes for us we might win.
 
Lord Megadrive said:
I don't trust May, as she seems to change her principals to whatever would get her power. The fact she was remain until she saw that she could become leader if she became Brexit is something I found very concerning.

I would vote corbyn but the problem is that there has already been a failed attempt to oust him as leader of the Labour Party. If he became PM how long before he would lose control of the party?
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I agree that there is precious little choice here. May's odious, but Corbyn will wreck the economy. It's saying something when you're wishing Cameron and Miliband were back.
 
Oscie said:
That's the case ever
y time I really do think the left have to reconsider seemingly now constantly relying on a demographic that consistently shows they don't turn up in as bigger numbers as they say they will

The parties that win the elections are the parties that has the biggest centrist appeal not those who make calculations based on if everybody under 25 and everybody who has never voted votes for us we might win.
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I think you've got to do that to stand a chance, yes.
 
I expect the personal attacks on Corbyn to be stepped up even more now, given his and Labour's rise in popularity and the fact that Lynton Crosby is directing the Tories campaign.

I, and I guess quite a few others here, remember the dark days of the troubles - and they were indeed dark days. It really did seem there was no way out. Both sides were so polarised and full of hate towards each other. Just about anyone back then would be totally disbelieving that we would have a lasting peace in Northern Ireland.

There were some attempts early on, even in the midst of some of the worst attrocities committed by both sides. Back in 1972 we had Bloody Sunday in January, the Aldershot bomb in February, the Bloody Friday bomb in July, etc., etc.. Behind the scenes, in June Tory William Whitelaw was informed that the IRA might be willing to talk if the government released Gerry Adams, the then 23-year-old republican activist held under internment. Viscount Whitelaw agreed and the meeting was on. The subsequent talks, held in secret near the Donegal border and later in London, failed.

Will the Tories, by digging up the history of Corbyn's efforts to move the negotiations forward many years later, be willing to talk about their own party having flown into London the then IRA Chief of Staff and other senior IRA members many years earlier, in the hottest period of the conflict?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/2601875.stm

 
Difference between talking with the IRA with a view of negotiating a settlement on behalf of the UK government and meeting then as a supporter of their aims and speaking at dinners held to fund raise for them.

No amount of tweeting pics of Gerry Adams meeting Prince Charles 20 years after the Good Friday Agreement really changes that.

Corbyn was never central to the pace process. He can only justify his words in respect of the IRA by pretending he was
 
11101 said:
See, I disagree with this. Ed was nice, Corbyn is not, but he's somehow convinced everyone he's a man of the people. Sure he may look approachable but there is nothing 'nice' about the associations and viewpoints he has held in the past and seems reluctant to renounce even now. He's probably more extreme in his personal views than any mainstream Tory.
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Interested to know why you feel Corbyn is not 'nice' and which associations and viewpoints he has held which you disagree with?

I think one of the problems Corbyn has is that he is opinionated and does have principles. Politicains these days scramble for the middl ground because if you don't stand for anything in particular nobody can disagree with you

Corbyn has done absolutely the right thing - come out with a solid manifesto of ambitious but achievable policies. Not everybody will agree with them but the reaction from the general public seems to be that many do
 
rednotled said:
You've articulated pretty much how I feel about this election.

I like the Labour manifesto (at least it has specifics) whereas the Tories manifesto is vague and seems to be "more of the same".
I'm not sure that our social welfare and health systems can take any more "austerity", especially the NHS.

I'm concerned that the estimates from increased income/corp tax are overstated and as someone who is lucky enough to be affected by these tax increases, I'm worried that if a shortfall occurs, there may be even higher raises in store for me in the future.

As far as the leaders go, if May gets blown off course this easily and this publicly, it doesn't bode well for EU/Brexit negotiations. If I were an EU negotiator I think I'd prefer to have May as my opponent.

Wasn't the attempt at removing Corbyn related to concerns that Labour were becoming un-electable? If he delivers Labour into power it will consolidate his position and nullify that position no?

I'd like to add that this thread has been extremely informative with some great debating going on, well done to you all!
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Jippy said:
I agree that there is precious little choice here. May's odious, but Corbyn will wreck the economy. It's saying something when you're wishing Cameron and Miliband were back.
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I honestly don't know which was to go. I suppose I could protest vote for the lib dems but I guess that would be same as being inactive. I honestly worry for the future as I think the recent political path of the country is leading us down a cul de sac in which the only occupants are bankruptcy and poor international relations!
 
Lord Megadrive said:
I honestly don't know which was to go. I suppose I could protest vote for the lib dems but I guess that would be same as being inactive. I honestly worry for the future as I think the recent political path of the country is leading us down a cul de sac in which the only occupants are bankruptcy and poor international relations!
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What was the result in your constituency last time?
 
Lord Megadrive said:
I honestly don't know which was to go. I suppose I could protest vote for the lib dems but I guess that would be same as being inactive. I honestly worry for the future as I think the recent political path of the country is leading us down a cul de sac in which the only occupants are bankruptcy and poor international relations!
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You could vote purely on local issues, which I'm doing. Our bloke is a good constituency MP who helped us out when we had problems with the council.
 
I'm supporting the most anti brexit candidate as frankly the national players are all a shambles.

Lol at someone being taken to task for not finding Corbyn 'nice'. Hang 'em
 
Oscie said:
I'm supporting the most anti brexit candidate as frankly the national players are all a shambles.

Lol at someone being taken to task for not finding Corbyn 'nice'. Hang 'em
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Out of curiosity, would you vote for a party like the SNP, if only they were uk-wide and unrelated to nationalism?
 
Find it really odd Corbyn seems to be doing so well. I suppose it's a case of just voting for the opposition no matter who's in charge.
 
Simbo said:
Find it really odd Corbyn seems to be doing so well. I suppose it's a case of just voting for the opposition no matter who's in charge.
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The polls only really turned after Labour released their manifesto. That's not a coincidence.
 


Just shite? Or legit do you think?
 
Simbo said:
Find it really odd Corbyn seems to be doing so well. I suppose it's a case of just voting for the opposition no matter who's in charge.
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Really? I think since the second the campaign has been called he's been almost without flaw.

I went into the election deeply unsure who I would vote for and not convinced by Corbyn, but I think he's done a really good job. They've released a manifesto that appeals to voters, he's been enthusiastic and engaging, he's spoken well to the crowds, he's done well on TV, and they've absolutely hammered the Conservatives as a party for the rich and wealthy. I'm not convinced by Labour's position on Brexit, but they're been less amateur than the Lib Dems on this point.

The only real mistake Labour have made is continuing to allow Diane Abbott to go on TV.
 
Kentonio said:
The polls only really turned after Labour released their manifesto. That's not a coincidence.
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And the Tory manifesto.

The Tories were trying to win the election on Brexit alone, the policies however goes well beyond that and they've managed to remind many just what shits they are.
 
altodevil86 said:


Just shite? Or legit do you think?
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I imagine they genuinely are wishing to prepare themselves for one stray poll putting Labour ahead. I doubt they're seriously expecting to fall behind in a few of them, though.
 
Mozza said:
And the Tory manifesto.

The Tories were trying to win the election on Brexit alone, the policies however goes well beyond that and they've managed to remind many just what shits they are.
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It's starting to feel.. deliberate. Surely they can't be this bad at it?

[Disclaimer: I haven't slept for 26 hours]
 
Kentonio said:
Wow, just watched the clip. Are we absolutely SURE they're not trying to lose?
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I'm looking forward to him not knowing the national debt being shown for the next 3-4 days, if not the clip regarding foodbanks. Obviously when Rudd got police officer's average wage wrong, Hammond took £20bn off the price of HS2 and Michael Gove didn't know the Immigration Skills Charge or how many non-EU immigrants had arrived in the country in the past year, there was more important news to cover. But, with the only real news of the day being the death of John Noakes and the playoff final, I'm sure it'll get equal air-time as Diane Abbott's gaffe.
 
I think tonight Corbyn will do better facing the audience's questions and May better vs Paxman. Corbyn's more personable than May who constantly looks terrified that an ordinary person might talk to her. But I think May's issues that'll come up in the Paxman interviews is something she can prepare for. I'd be very surprised if she isn't fully prepared for questions on social care and winter fuel payment changes. Whereas Corbyn will be asked about security, past with IRA, previous comments etc. And I don't think he's ever really handled those questions very well.

If I was Corbyn I'd want the Paxman section first, and visa versa if I was May.
 
Oscie said:
But I think May's issues that'll come up in the Paxman interviews is something she can prepare for. I'd be very surprised if she isn't fully prepared for questions on social care and winter fuel payment changes.
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Bear in mind though, she's exactly the kind of interview subject he hates. He'll ask questions, she'll repeat soundbites, and he'll get angrier and angrier. Should be very enjoyable to watch. :)
 
Oscie said:
Difference between talking with the IRA with a view of negotiating a settlement on behalf of the UK government and meeting then as a supporter of their aims and speaking at dinners held to fund raise for them.

No amount of tweeting pics of Gerry Adams meeting Prince Charles 20 years after the Good Friday Agreement really changes that.

Corbyn was never central to the pace process. He can only justify his words in respect of the IRA by pretending he was
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Go on then... Let's see why you hold your views. Please provide some links to articles or whatever that have formed your opinion on this.
 
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