General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%

  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%

  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%

  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%

  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%

  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%

  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%
  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
Rolandofgilead said:
it's so stupid isn't it? he is committed to keeping trident, but apparently because he is for some reason reluctant to murder millions of people he is somehow a fool?
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Going by statements fro both Corbyn and Thornberry, Labour is not actually committed to renewing Trident at its present level of capability. He has also said some pretty stupid things regarding our nuclear subs, such as them going to sea with the missiles left in port.


Sweet Square said:
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He talks about stopping terrorism and the instability abroad, yet offers no practicable means of remedying such.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
He talks about stopping terrorism and the instability abroad, yet offers no practicable means of remedying such.
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It's a shame we can't look at his voting record and infer whether he voted against foreign interventions which caused the instability in first place, and use that to work out what his foreign policy will be.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Going by statements fro both Corbyn and Thornberry, Labour is not actually committed to renewing Trident at its present level of capability. He has also said some pretty stupid things regarding our nuclear subs, such as them going to sea with the missiles left in port.
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Or you could go by the manifesto, which says they are. But then the rest of your nonsense wouldn't have a leg to stand on, so I can see why you wouldn't bother.

Nick 0208 Ldn said:
He talks about stopping terrorism and the instability abroad, yet offers no practicable means of remedying such.
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Just that bit about releasing the report on Saudi links to terrorism in the speech and to stop selling arms to them immediately in the manifesto. Easily missed, particularly if you're choosing to do so purposely.
 
Silva said:
It's a shame we can't look at his voting record and infer whether he voted against foreign interventions which caused the instability in first place, and use that to work out what his foreign policy will be.
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No answer at all that, much like Corbyn himself.
 
Silva said:
Whichever you were referring to in your post.
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You just said the rates were previously at the levels Corbyn is proposing, I know that's the case with corporation tax (but your point wouldn't take into account that we didn't have Brexit to contend with last time), though I was talking about income tax which I just looked up would be astronomically higher for the rich under Corbyn than they were when Labour were last in power.
 
Silva said:
How is that not an answer? Do you need someone to explain to you how foreign interventions cause instability?
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He also voted against using military force against Daesh in Iraq, something that was requested by their sovereign government to prevent it and the instability that came with it spreading.
 
Dobba said:
Or you could go by the manifesto, which says they are. But then the rest of your nonsense wouldn't have a leg to stand on, so I can see why you wouldn't bother.
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I have, and it does not commit to an equivalent renewal. Moreover, they've both refused to commit to it during interviews on TV and radio.


Silva said:
How is that not an answer? Do you need someone to explain to you how foreign interventions cause instability?
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Not at all. You could, however, explain to me what non-intervention achieves at this stage in the game. Being right about Iraq in 2003, doesn't make the same policy correct today. He has referred to the Libyan intervention repeatedly, what's he going to do to fix it?
 
endless_wheelies said:
You just said the rates were previously at the levels Corbyn is proposing, I know that's the case with corporation tax (but your point wouldn't take into account that we didn't have Brexit to contend with last time), though I was talking about income tax which I just looked up would be astronomically higher for the rich under Corbyn than they were when Labour were last in power.
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He's also the only major party leader pledging to stay in the common market, which takes care of the problem corporations have with Brexit. I don't think they've said what income tax will be, maybe it will be astronomical, or maybe that's just unfounded speculation.
 
Silva said:
He's also the only major party leader pledging to stay in the common market, which takes care of the problem corporations have with Brexit. I don't think they've said what income tax will be, maybe it will be astronomical, or maybe that's just unfounded speculation.
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This is not the case. They're explicitly for leaving the single market.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Not at all. You could, however, explain to me what non-intervention achieves at this stage in the game. Being right about Iraq in 2003, doesn't make the same policy correct today. He has referred to the Libyan intervention repeatedly, what's he going to do to fix it?
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Well for a start, he's not going to hold Trumps hand should America ask for an Iran war - which has a realistic chance of happening considering the company he keeps. It would also stop the current mess in the middle east from getting worse because of us.

Ubik said:
This is not the case. They're explicitly for leaving the single market.
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Tariff free access. Sorry, you're right.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
I have, and it does not commit to an equivalent renewal. Moreover, they've both refused to commit to it during interviews on TV and radio.
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Is this where I point out that Labour is a democratic party and an individual's opinions don't matter in regards to the manifesto, even that of the leader? Corbyn is against nuclear weapons full stop, it's in there because the party isn't.
 
Sky at least showed the speech in full when it was made, but none of the TV news shows/channels have shown the clip of him talking about the suppressed report on jihadi funding and calling out Saudi Arabia and the gulf nations in the 5+ hours since. You'd think a guy who could Prime Minister this time next week criticising the Saudis particularly would be a story, but apparently not.

It has made it's way onto Channel 4 News' Facebook page. Interesting to see if it makes their TV broadcasts later today.
 
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Dobba said:
Sky at least showed the speech in full when it was made, but none of the TV news shows/channels have shown the clip of him talking about the suppressed report on jihadi funding and calling out Saudi Arabia and the gulf nations in the 5+ hours since. You'd think a guy who could Prime Minister this time next week criticising the Saudis particularly would be a story, but apparently not.
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Yeah that's right, I wouldn't have ever known he'd said that had I not watched it at the time.
 
reddit said:
What is ridiculous is that it takes two vehicular attacks on citizens in a few short weeks, one of which was at the heart of the Parliamentary democracy, and a suicide bombing of children at a concert before the Prime Minister thinks "enough is enough". And then the laughable response is to suggest regulating the internet.
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Silva said:
He's also the only major party leader pledging to stay in the common market, which takes care of the problem corporations have with Brexit. I don't think they've said what income tax will be, maybe it will be astronomical, or maybe that's just unfounded speculation.
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He said he will negotiate tariff free access to the single market, that wouldn't take into account all the other related costs such as administration that come without full single market access.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tax/income-tax/labour-will-take-tax-rates-back-1970s/
 
endless_wheelies said:
He said he will negotiate tariff free access to the single market, that wouldn't take into account all the other related costs such as administration that come without full single market access.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/tax/income-tax/labour-will-take-tax-rates-back-1970s/
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Yeah, I misremember that sorry. But the point is, so long as corporations have full access to the single market - doesn't that solve their Brexit problem? And is it not better for them than reverting to WTO rules?

As for the article, it's 5% more than the tories, which is about the difference you'd expect between the two parties taxation. Hardly astronomical rises.
 
Silva said:
Yeah, I misremember that sorry. But the point is, so long as corporations have full access to the single market - doesn't that solve their Brexit problem? And is it not better for them than reverting to WTO rules?

As for the article, it's 5% more than the tories, which is about the difference you'd expect between the two parties taxation. Hardly astronomical rises.
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There's not really any such thing as "full access" outside of membership. The tariff thing is a bit of a red herring, the most valuable thing we get from the single market is the freedom of services within it, which nobody gets outside of at least the EEA. And I'm deeply sceptical they'll be granting us a deal on that.

It's the main reason that on policy I'm basically a single issue voter this election. Leaving the single market is nuts.
 
Ubik said:
There's not really any such thing as "full access" outside of membership. The tariff thing is a bit of a red herring, the most valuable thing we get from the single market is the freedom of services within it, which nobody gets outside of at least the EEA. And I'm deeply sceptical they'll be granting us a deal on that.

It's the main reason that on policy I'm basically a single issue voter this election. Leaving the single market is nuts.
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Fair. And yeah, it's a ridiculous situation we're in thanks to Brexit.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
I have, and it does not commit to an equivalent renewal. Moreover, they've both refused to commit to it during interviews on TV and radio.




Not at all. You could, however, explain to me what non-intervention achieves at this stage in the game. Being right about Iraq in 2003, doesn't make the same policy correct today. He has referred to the Libyan intervention repeatedly, what's he going to do to fix it?
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A start would be the humility to know that the British PM can't "fix" an entire country, let alone one which has nothing to do with Britain or him.
 
Ubik said:
There's not really any such thing as "full access" outside of membership. The tariff thing is a bit of a red herring, the most valuable thing we get from the single market is the freedom of services within it, which nobody gets outside of at least the EEA. And I'm deeply sceptical they'll be granting us a deal on that.

It's the main reason that on policy I'm basically a single issue voter this election. Leaving the single market is nuts.
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Think he is likely to remain inthe eea and accept freedom of movement if push comes. To shove.
 
Damien said:
The Sun have gone for the headline tomorrow of: Jihadi killer in an Arsenal shirt

No words. Here they are, all pretty much about the terror attacks.
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FFS. They must have figured their experience in Liverpool was part of a successful business model.

'Terrorism doesn't sell enough newspapers anymore, arsenal on the other side!'
 
LuisNaniencia said:
I really don't get the nuclear launch argument. If we were to "first strike" the opposing country would retaliate and that would spell the end of our little island. But hey at least we kill millions of innocents before we die!

Having nuclear weapons just makes us more of a target, it's not a deterrent.
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MAD!
 
If Corbyn is reliant on enthusiasm and momentum the last few days won't have helped. It's going to be difficult to get the campaign going and I certainly don't think it'll ever get fully back into the swing. Last few days, I expect, to be relatively sombre and serious.

I wonder if the Tories will gamble and go hard on Corbyn, Abbott et al about being 'soft' on national security and risk the backlash of being accused of exploiting tragedy or if they'll let their supporters in the media do that for them. Meanwhile ensure May's camped at Number 10, and giving briefings on all the important meetings she's chairing and looking prime ministerial.
 
Oscie said:
If Corbyn is reliant on enthusiasm and momentum the last few days won't have helped. It's going to be difficult to get the campaign going and I certainly don't think it'll ever get fully back into the swing. Last few days, I expect, to be relatively sombre and serious.

I wonder if the Tories will gamble and go hard on Corbyn, Abbott et al about being 'soft' on national security and risk the backlash of being accused of exploiting tragedy or if they'll let their supporters in the media do that for them.
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Labour just need to go hard on police numbers. I mean you can say Labour under Corbyn may do this and that but the Tories actually have a record the public will be angry about in this case. Then there's May accusing the police of scaremongering.

Last few days will be the worst of the media i imagine.

Strangely the Daily Mails story on Corbyn accusing May of the above things is above any May story. In fact they've now misreported a U-turn saying Corbyn now supports armed officers. Are the Mail leaning towards blaming the security services and May?
 
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Smores said:
Labour just need to go hard on police numbers. I mean you can say Labour under Corbyn may do this and that but the Tories actually have a record the public will be angry about in this case. Then there's May accusing the police of scaremongering.

Last few days will be the worst of the media i imagine
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The police numbers are a weakness for May given that she can't distance themselves from them as her entire time in government she's either been Home Secretary or PM and therefore directly responsible.

That said given what Corbyn's said in the past re shoot to kill and opposing 'anti-terrorism' legislation, I'm not sure if he's really the guy to successfully get that point home.

"you cut police"
"you opposed measures to combat terrorism"

At best for Corbyn it seems a wash. I'd guess Corbyn would rather not spend last few days talking about his past statements on various issues again.
 
Reluctantly voted for Ol' Jez in the end. The Dems were weak and The Tories not an option. What swung it for me in the end was the belief that Labour's plan for Brexit is so dumb that we won't really leave, that and the recent terrorist attacks laying bare The Tories cuts to the home security forces.
 
Oscie said:
If Corbyn is reliant on enthusiasm and momentum the last few days won't have helped. It's going to be difficult to get the campaign going and I certainly don't think it'll ever get fully back into the swing. Last few days, I expect, to be relatively sombre and serious.

I wonder if the Tories will gamble and go hard on Corbyn, Abbott et al about being 'soft' on national security and risk the backlash of being accused of exploiting tragedy or if they'll let their supporters in the media do that for them. Meanwhile ensure May's camped at Number 10, and giving briefings on all the important meetings she's chairing and looking prime ministerial.
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Indeed. It gives her the ideal excuse for not being out in front of TV cameras, as she can claim the security situation is too important.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Reluctantly voted for Ol' Jez in the end. The Dems were weak and The Tories not an option. What swung it for me in the end was the belief that Labour's plan for Brexit is so dumb that we won't really leave, that and the recent terrorist attacks laying bare The Tories cuts to the home security forces.
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The policing numbers made no difference to these attacks. Responding to them is the job of the police, preventing them is the job of the intelligence services.
 
11101 said:
The policing numbers made no difference to these attacks. Responding to them is the job of the police, preventing them is the job of the intelligence services.
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Not necessarily true. There's a case that having the police working closely with communities means they can get early information on people that are becoming radicalized. People are more likely to talk to the local 'bobby on the beat' than they are to contact a faceless hotline or huge government department.
 
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