General Election 2017 | Cabinet reshuffle: Hunt re-appointed Health Secretary for record third time

How do you intend to vote in the 2017 General Election if eligible?

  • Conservatives

    Votes: 80 14.5%

  • Labour

    Votes: 322 58.4%

  • Lib Dems

    Votes: 57 10.3%

  • Green

    Votes: 20 3.6%

  • SNP

    Votes: 13 2.4%

  • UKIP

    Votes: 29 5.3%

  • Independent

    Votes: 3 0.5%

  • Plaid Cymru

    Votes: 2 0.4%

  • Sinn Fein

    Votes: 11 2.0%

  • Other (UUP, DUP, BNP, and anyone else I have forgotten)

    Votes: 14 2.5%
  • Total voters
    551
  • Poll closed .
rcoobc said:
I dont know. Everyone is building and developing marine and submarine drones.

That's not something ive thought about, but there is probably the real prospect of thousands of these drones looking for nuclear submarines.

Not sure highly likely is thay far off :nervous:
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But we'd have to assume that the technology of keeping these subs off the radar would also at least try to keep pace? So I don't fully understand the point.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
I don't personally know a single Labour voter outside of this forum, so this reaction is a useful window if nothing else.
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I don't know a single Tory voter outside this forum. Everybody I know votes Labour or the greens. Guess it just comes down to which part of the country you are from. Manchester is very much a Labour city.
 
Zarlak said:
I don't know a single Tory voter outside this forum. Everybody I know votes Labour or the greens. Guess it just comes down to which part of the country you are from. Manchester is very much a Labour city.
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Or people who say they vote Labour but lie as they dont want a political debate.
 
RedSky said:
Or people who say they vote Labour but lie as they dont want a political debate.
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Or to be attacked. I've never voted Tory but the way I've witnessed people who say they do be treated like they're committing a crime isn't very nice. It isn't just disagreement either, it's real anger. I would imagine it's the same the other way around where people who were brought up with a certain set of political values with absolutely no exposure to anyone outside people who agree with them, have very little tolerance of the views of other people or even of their right to hold different views.

'Never kissed a Tory' t-shirts being a frivolous yet symptomatic example. I think it's generational too. Unless part of the student movement young people tend not to be terribly tribal. Left leaning generally but not tribal in a way that those who were around in the 70s and 80s seem to be and seem to have a bizarre mistrust of anyone not equally as tribal as they are.

Most of my friends (25-40ish age group) vote for a rainbow of different parties and none seem to view the other as the 'enemy' for voting a different way. I prefer this and find it much more conducive to constructive conversation than people who's loyalty to a party is matched only by loyalty to their football club where everything quickly descends into a shouting match based on "How dare you disagree with me"
 
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rcoobc said:
I dont know. Everyone is building and developing marine and submarine drones.

That's not something ive thought about, but there is probably the real prospect of thousands of these drones looking for nuclear submarines.

Not sure highly likely is thay far off :nervous:
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Just think about the scale. I could imagine them being a threat to attack subs that are likely to be within a relatively small area. Vanguards (and eventually Dreadnaughts) can be nailed down to "probably somewhere in the atlantic", lurking for months at a time. And if there are multiple thousands of these anti-sub drones quietly plodding around the sea for months at a time, happily giving away their position with sonar pings, I'd imagine they'd be a fair sight more vulnerable to passive anti-anti-sub drones than the subs themselves. And so on.
 
Oscie said:
Or to be attacked. I've never voted Tory but the way I've witnessed people who say they do be treated like they're committing a crime isn't very nice. It isn't just disagreement either, it's real anger. I would imagine it's the same the other way around where people who were brought up with a certain set of political values with absolutely no exposure to anyone outside people who agree with them, have very little tolerance of the views of other people or even of their right to hold different views.
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I was slapped (hard) by a girl in 2010 for saying the Lib Dems did the right thing democratically by forming a coalition with the party who had the most seats. :lol:
 
Ubik said:
Just think about the scale. I could imagine them being a threat to attack subs that are likely to be within a relatively small area. Vanguards (and eventually Dreadnaughts) can be nailed down to "probably somewhere in the atlantic", lurking for months at a time. And if there are multiple thousands of these anti-sub drones quietly plodding around the sea for months at a time, happily giving away their position with sonar pings, I'd imagine they'd be a fair sight more vulnerable to passive anti-anti-sub drones than the subs themselves. And so on.
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Maybe you are right.

But lets say small water based drones were perfected, capable of locating nuclear submarines in a decent distance, each costing $100,000. Building ten thousand of them would only cost $1bn. There a are lots of passive techniques that could be used (measuring Infared, accoustics, etc). They could even conduct active measurements just very infrequently.

Hmm. Not sure. Dont know enough about the subject
 
Oscie said:
The police numbers are a weakness for May given that she can't distance themselves from them as her entire time in government she's either been Home Secretary or PM and therefore directly responsible.

That said given what Corbyn's said in the past re shoot to kill and opposing 'anti-terrorism' legislation, I'm not sure if he's really the guy to successfully get that point home.

"you cut police"
"you opposed measures to combat terrorism"

At best for Corbyn it seems a wash. I'd guess Corbyn would rather not spend last few days talking about his past statements on various issues again.
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Oscie said:
Corbyn's bang on when he says we're going to have to look again at our relationship with Saudi Arabia. But that's a far more nuanced and therefore difficult narrative vs 'He opposed anti-terror legislation'. If we're thinking about what's more likely to cut through in the final few days of the campaign, there isn't really a contest.
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Oscie said:
He's on camera saying he's uncomfortable with the shoot to kill policy and boasting about opposing anti-terror legislation. On the basis that 90% of people aren't going to research the nuances of both these statements, it's rather obvious why he's vulnerable on this issue.

Besides the police numbers issue as an important point. But calling on her to resign 3 days away from polling day just looks silly. Why make something that could gain traction a joke by doing that?
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May also opposed a lot of anti-terrorism legislation. Corbyn even referred to it in a debate, not that anyone would know as the quote was left off the news coverage of the debate.

Ramshock said:
I think its obvious the Tories will win but will they get a majority?
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100%
 
@Oscie

About you saying & not appreciating why us non-Tories are angry.

The Tories represent the haves. The haves have too fecking much and always want more (most of them). They have a large tendency to believe that the have-nots deserve to be the have-nots & deserve to to be where they are. There is constant 'politicking' in this regard as a way of retaining power at the very least.

The Left represent the disenfranchised of various types - they tend to get a bit pissed off with being treated like shit & with the selfish attitudes of those people who are considerably better off than they will ever be.

Conservative policy seems consistently about taking from the poor & giving to the rich rather than the other way around or operating to benefit everybody. Money flows naturally to those who already have it anyway**, it hardly needs political encouragement from a bunch of jaundiced cnuts who think they are better than everybody else.

(I'm not even a proper Lefty btw - there's some strange stuff goes on on that side too. They over-adhere to principles & don't like any mention of reality sometimes, that's for sure, and a fair few are incredibly bad tempered) <--- that would include me too atm, tbf.


**Thank feck for Hayekian trickledown that's what I always say, :rolleyes:.
 
Damien said:
May also opposed a lot of anti-terrorism legislation. Corbyn even referred to it in a debate, not that anyone would know as the quote was left off the news coverage of the debate.
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People who bring up the anti-terrorism legislation angle either ignore the Tories' voting record on it or can't cite one piece of legislation they're particularly in favour of. It's a complete dead cat.

 
Dobba said:
People who bring up the anti-terrorism legislation angle either ignore the Tories' voting record on it or can't cite one piece of legislation they're particularly in favour of. It's a complete dead cat.

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Peter-Capaldi-Peter-Capaldi.jpg
 
Dobba said:
People who bring up the anti-terrorism legislation angle either ignore the Tories' voting record on it or can't cite one piece of legislation they're particularly in favour of. It's a complete dead cat.

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:lol:
 
May saying the minimum she can to defend Khan and not criticise Trump
 



For comparison - the actual number of voter registration applications logged was over 4.5m in 2017 up to the deadline, so it goes to show how many are duplicates.
 
Vote may get trump.

Labour should absolutely hammer than one home from now on. She wins, we will be bombing syria by the end of summer, trump needs something to show he is strong, and she will follow along.

And that is th emost optimistic scenario. He may go for Iran to prove his anti russia credentials.
 
DenisIrwin said:
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Terrorism Act 2000
May - Absent
Corbyn - Against

Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001
May - For, then Absent
Corbyn - Against

Fourteen-day detention 2003
May - Against
Corbyn - Against

Control Orders - 2005
May - Against
Corbyn - Against

ID cards 2006
May - Against
Corbyn - Against

Ninety-day detention 2006
May - Against then For after changes.
Corbyn - Against

Counter-terrorism Act 2008
May - Absent
Corbyn - Against

Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Act
May - For
Corbyn - Against

Justice and Security Act 2013
May - For
Corbyn - Against

The Investigatory Powers Act 2016
May - For
Corbyn - Against
 
rcoobc said:
Terrorism Act 2000
May - Absent
Corbyn - Against

Anti-terrorism, Crime and Security Act 2001
May - For, then Absent
Corbyn - Against

Fourteen-day detention 2003
May - Against
Corbyn - Against

Control Orders - 2005
May - Against
Corbyn - Against

ID cards 2006
May - Against
Corbyn - Against

Ninety-day detention 2006
May - Against then For after changes.
Corbyn - Against

Counter-terrorism Act 2008
May - Absent
Corbyn - Against

Terrorism Prevention and Investigation Measures Act
May - For
Corbyn - Against

Justice and Security Act 2013
May - For
Corbyn - Against

The Investigatory Powers Act 2016
May - For
Corbyn - Against
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I think his voting record on this is a lot to do with him recognising the problems internment presented on the road to peace in NI.
 
Oscie said:
Or to be attacked. I've never voted Tory but the way I've witnessed people who say they do be treated like they're committing a crime isn't very nice. It isn't just disagreement either, it's real anger. I would imagine it's the same the other way around where people who were brought up with a certain set of political values with absolutely no exposure to anyone outside people who agree with them, have very little tolerance of the views of other people or even of their right to hold different views.

'Never kissed a Tory' t-shirts being a frivolous yet symptomatic example. I think it's generational too. Unless part of the student movement young people tend not to be terribly tribal. Left leaning generally but not tribal in a way that those who were around in the 70s and 80s seem to be and seem to have a bizarre mistrust of anyone not equally as tribal as they are.

Most of my friends (25-40ish age group) vote for a rainbow of different parties and none seem to view the other as the 'enemy' for voting a different way. I prefer this and find it much more conducive to constructive conversation than people who's loyalty to a party is matched only by loyalty to their football club where everything quickly descends into a shouting match based on "How dare you disagree with me"
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A large part of it is generational because back in the Thatcher era there were genuine winners and losers from conservative policies, and Labour stood in real ideological opposition. The problem with New Labour and the changes it forced within the Conservative party was that the parties were competing over basically the same ideological ground around the center. People were still losing out, but less dramatically and neither major party really represented them anyway, so they tended to just disenfranchise from politics altogether ("Politicians are all the same" etc).

What we're seeing now is the parties moving significantly apart again and as the Tories move increasingly right more people are losing out and rather than it being a gradual decline in many cases it's dramatic and severe. When you push people to the point where they're dependent on food banks and worry about not being able to keep a roof over their heads, the anger becomes very real. Those people now have a home back in the Labour Party, and so now we're seeing a return to the genuinely passionate tribalism of old.
 
The Official Monster Raving Looney Party leader said he'd consider his position in the unlikely event any of their candidates kept their deposit. Woodcock's in the wrong party.
 
Unrelated but one improvement in this campaign, compared to the last couple, is the debate about the NHS doesn't include a Tory leader using his deceased son as a deflection tool.

Was just watching some video of NHS workers telling people to vote anything but Tory, explaining they cannot be trusted on it, and the memories of him claiming his experiences meant he could be trusted came back.
 
Fully Fledged said:
That's no excuse to try and sabotage the party he is supposed to represent 3 days before the election though.
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He is a left over Blairite. I can't speak for everybody but i have always dreamt of having a left wing Labour party and now we have one, some of the members will always resist it.
 
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