Charlottesville

That's picture from Warsaw on November 11th though. Jobik joined in to support... you guessed it.
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But there's also plenty without the jobik support:
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Sorry for insinuating that you were a fascists, my temper took over. I'll delete it if you want me to.

Nah it's okay, imo it's important to talk those things over and I do know that the view on Central European countries in terms of politics can be quite skewed. And yeah, you've got morons like those in those marches even if it's a unsignificant minority that is fought with. Probably same could be argued about Antifa, and I believe that's what you are arguing for, but sadly I think that while the idea of post war Antifascismus was the right one, in it's current state it's not much beyond a militia of dangerous people who look for a fight, just like those neonazi skinheads. We've had German Antifa attacking random people in those marches, I've been in one myself and I know how shit works. Ever since change in power in Poland it stopped because the politicians stopped turning blind eye to it.

Nazi or Roman salutes are forbidden in Poland, just like other nazi and communist symbols like Hakenkreuz or scythe and hammer. Using them is prosecuted legally, it's basically an offence which should be treated as nothing different in a country that has suffered so much from both of those systems. We've had a talk about Antifa not long time ago when shit went down in Hamburg by the way.
 
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Is that the flags that convinced you that it was hungarians?:lol:

Hehe yeah, I know what Jobik is too and even though I'm right wing myself, by Caf standards I would be even considered a far right, I don't really want to see them on those marches.
 
This despicable piece of excrement openly celebrate an ideology that was responsible, among others, the exploitation, torture and killing of 6 millions people for no other reason than the fact they were born. He should count himself lucky he isnt put behind bars.

I think the terrible-ness of fascism is not just the actions, but the ideology itself. The quote from Hitler printed on that guy's shirt is an awful view of the world. (post 541 of this thread).
 
Made the mistake of going onto a few youtube videos by the BBC on that guy getting chased
Full of comments upvoted to hell defending him and this march.
One of the top ones voted up over 400 fecking times said something along the lines of 'white people deserve to live, Antifa are the scum of the earth'


I wonder how accepting the ALT-RIGHT would be of an ISIS march, waving ISIS flags and chanting Allah Akbar? Yeah thought so.
Both Nazism, White Supremacy, ISIS has no place what so fecking ever. Feck free speech, Sympathy to Nazism should be well beyond the realms of Free speech.
I do find it amusing that the Alt-Right wave flags of movements defeated by America, what next? Will they bring out the British flag? And this is patriotic? Fecking hell.
 
We do not live in Utopia. If someone call your or my mother a whore to our face, a shock in a jaw is the least he'd have gotten. This despicable piece of excrement openly celebrate an ideology that was responsible, among others, the exploitation, torture and killing of 6 millions people for no other reason than the fact they were born. He should count himself lucky he isnt put behind bars.

Politics has always been a struggle. It's not just talking heads on TV and a bunch of people posting on a football forum.

Not sure what this in bold has to do with anything. This forum has a collection of some of the best posters I have seen on the internet. Not a bunch of trolls on youtube. I agree with most of what you have said and I think people that spread hate like that should not be even given a platform. I have had dispecable things said to me about my race, appearance , mother , brother wife and im sure soon my son. I have been told by my own country men to "go back to where i come from" and told unmentionable things about my mother, doesnt give me the right to punch someone. I am a proud gun owner and I believe certain things should never be tolerated, I however dont think punching someone because of his ignorant views gets any one anywhere and is a part of the issue. If someone said something disgusting and outrageous am I to shoot that person in the knee cap?
 
yes hate speech can be considered a flaw, or just an unfortunate consequence of a great thing. But my issue is with the assualt in that video. At no point should someone be attacked physically when making a speech. Its just not right and makes those who condemn their words look as bad as them. Their are many other ways to "hit back" without physically doing so.

I tend to distinguish between hate speech and active support to nazism. Maybe a fine line, but still it's there. We have all kind of nutjobs. If people think whites are superior, so be it...they are entitled to their view. But active support to a mass murdering party would cross the line. I don't mind them having right to hate speech without fashioning themselves as neo-nazi. There's just no place in this world for Nazism to exist.
 
I tend to distinguish between hate speech and active support to nazism. Maybe a fine line, but still it's there. We have all kind of net jobs there. If people think whites are superior, so be it...they are entitled to their view. But active support to a mass murdering party would cross the line. I don't mind them having right to hate speech without being fashioning themselves as neo-nazi. There's just no place in this world for Nazism to exist.


Thats not what im debating and I feel because i mentioned he has the legal right to say his mind is lost on the fact that i just dont advocate punching a man. I have seen in my own country an angry mob beat a man to death because of steeling something. Its barbaric. I dont think this man should have the right to speak, he does, its unfortunate and I think the USA should have stricter laws against it even though i know it will never happen
 
‘Jews will not replace us’: Why white supremacists go after Jews


By Yair Rosenberg August 13 at 9:35 PM
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Several hundred white nationalists and white supremacists carrying torches march in a parade at the University of Virginia. (Evelyn Hockstein for The Washington Post)

Jews and non-Jews are drawn to debates about whether Jews are white. It’s the sort of question that captivates academics and activists, roping in everyone from Israeli “Wonder Woman” actress Gal Gadot to African American literary luminary James Baldwin.

On the one hand, Jews have been discriminated against for centuries, including by white cultures from Nazi Germany to the United States. On the other, many Jews have attained a significant measure of acceptance, and many can often “pass” as white when not wearing traditional Jewish symbols.

Implicitly at stake in this argument is whether efforts to combat racism should prioritize prejudice against Jews or whether other persecuted populations should take precedence.

Personally, I’ve found this debate beside the point, and this weekend’s disturbing events in Charlottesville perfectly illustrate why: The white supremacists have already made their decision.

When white nationalists descended upon the historic Virginia city to protest the removal of a statue of Confederate general Robert E. Lee, their “Unite the Right” rally gathered a veritable who’s who of top neo-Nazis in the United States, including Ku Klux Klan Grand Wizard David Duke and alt-right leading light Richard Spencer, among others.

They immediately went after the Jews. At their Friday night rally at the University of Virginia, the white nationalists brandished torches and chanted anti-Semitic and Nazi slogans, including “blood and soil” (an English rendering of the Nazi “blut und boden”) and “Jews will not replace us” — all crafted to cast Jews as foreign interlopers who need to be expunged. The attendees proudly displayed giant swastikas and wore shirts emblazoned with quotes from Adolf Hitler. One banner read, “Jews are Satan’s children.”

“The truth is,” Duke told a large crowd Saturday, “the American media, and the American political system, and the American Federal Reserve, is dominated by a tiny minority: the Jewish Zionist cause.” Addressing another group, Richard Spencer mocked Charlottesville’s Jewish mayor, Mike Signer. “Little Mayor Signer — ‘See-ner’ — how do you pronounce this little creep’s name?” Spencer asked. The crowd responded by chanting, “Jew, Jew, Jew.” In TV interviews, attendees were not shy about their anti-Semitism.

And James Fields Jr., the man who is accused of mowing down protesters that day, killing one and injuring 19, “had this fascination with Nazism and a big idolatry of Adolf Hitler,” according to his high school history teacher. He was previously photographed at a rally for Vanguard America, a neo-Nazi group dedicated to fighting “the international Jew.”

None of this should surprise us. The United States’ white nationalists have made no secret of their special hate for Jews, particularly during the 2016 campaign and its aftermath.

Inspired by Donald Trump, Duke himself ran for Senate in Louisiana, spending much of his time on the primary debate stage ranting against the Jews. When Melania Trump was found to have plagiarized Michelle Obama in her Republican National Convention address, Duke declared he’d “bet a gefilte fish” that it was Jewish sabotage.

Throughout the presidential campaign, Trump’s alt-right supporters barraged Jewish journalists with online abuse, including CNN’s Jake Tapper, the Atlantic’s Julia Ioffe and me, photoshopping us into gas chambers and concentration camps.

This conduct is not incidental to the white nationalist program; it is essential.

As the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Eric Ward, an African American scholar and activist who has studied the movement for years, recently put it:

“The successes of the civil rights movement created a terrible problem for white supremacist ideology. White supremacism — inscribed de jure by the Jim Crow regime and upheld de facto outside the South — had been the law of the land, and a black-led social movement had toppled the political regime that supported it. How could a race of inferiors have unseated this power structure through organizing alone? … Some secret cabal, some mythological power, must be manipulating the social order behind the scenes. This diabolical evil must control television, banking, entertainment, education and even Washington D.C. It must be brainwashing white people, rendering them racially unconscious.

What is this arch-nemesis of the white race, whose machinations have prevented the natural and inevitable imposition of white supremacy? It is, of course, the Jews. Jews function for today’s white nationalists as they often have for anti-Semites through the centuries: as the demons stirring an otherwise changing and heterogeneous pot of lesser evils.”

For this reason, Jews are the only “white people” obsessively targeted by white supremacists. So are they really white, not at all or something in between? After Charlottesville, it’s clear we no longer have the luxury of debating the finer points of this question. For the time being, the racists have settled it for us.

Racism, after all, is essentially the result of socially constructed categories imposed by bigots to separate out-groups from an in-group: white from nonwhites, Germans from Jews and so on.

As such, any serious anti-racist effort needs to confront the racists where they are. When white supremacists are viciously attacking Jews as nonwhite impostors, then any anti-racists worthy of the name must be there to defend them. They cannot impose their own definitions of whiteness on Jews and sidestep their plight. Otherwise, they are simply ceding Jews to their assailants and effectively abetting their persecution.


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Guess Kushner is gonna be happy.
 
I think the terrible-ness of fascism is not just the actions, but the ideology itself. The quote from Hitler printed on that guy's shirt is an awful view of the world. (post 541 of this thread).
The ideology itself is intrinsically linked to the actions it manifests.

Not sure what this in bold has to do with anything. This forum has a collection of some of the best posters I have seen on the internet. Not a bunch of trolls on youtube. I agree with most of what you have said and I think people that spread hate like that should not be even given a platform. I have had dispecable things said to me about my race, appearance , mother , brother wife and im sure soon my son. I have been told by my own country men to "go back to where i come from" and told unmentionable things about my mother, doesnt give me the right to punch someone. I am a proud gun owner and I believe certain things should never be tolerated, I however dont think punching someone because of his ignorant views gets any one anywhere and is a part of the issue. If someone said something disgusting and outrageous am I to shoot that person in the knee cap?

No, but think about it this way, that punch may have saved that scrote's life. If he knows his actions are not tolerated, it might make him think twice next time about doing it. The next guy may hold a gun.

There are things in life that cross the line and provoke a response from most decent people with a conscience. That was one of it. Every action has a reaction. I've seen men beaten to death for killing and stealing pet dogs. Is it right? No. Understandable? Yes.
 
Thats not what im debating and I feel because i mentioned he has the legal right to say his mind is lost on the fact that i just dont advocate punching a man. I have seen in my own country an angry mob beat a man to death because of steeling something. Its barbaric. I dont think this man should have the right to speak, he does, its unfortunate and I think the USA should have stricter laws against it even though i know it will never happen

I'm sure you saw the police protecting him too. Tempers were high and shit happens.
 
Hehe yeah, I know what Jobik is too and even though I'm right wing myself, by Caf standards I would be even considered a far right, I don't really want to see them on those marches.
What are you marching for?

I've been on my share of marches against cnutish political moves like the poll tax, student loans etc but there was always a political point to be made. These national day parades don't look like some good time carnival parade to me, so what is their political aim? Is it purely exercising your right to march on your own streets like the dumbass Orange marches in Ireland where it is essentially a means of intimidating those you stand against, in this instance immigrants rather than catholics.

I have to say some of the antifa tactics in terms of going armed with brass knuckles, mace, knives etc is cnutish and there is clearly an element in there who are just out to cause trouble the same as you get with movements like Occupy or the anti globalisation protests. The anti fascist cause has always maintained a point of being there to counter these intimidatory protests however and when used effectively has sent the rats scurrying back into the dark. In my youth as a punk I was involved in ANL and AFA street actions to drive out the likes of the NF and BNP who would openly sell their racist rags in the main shopping streets of Britain, we'd usually only need to tell them to feck off and bin their literature but it wasn't unusual for a punch or two to be thrown, I also had some involvement with the redskins in France and Italy in the early 90s and there it was far scarier as the fascist thugs usually were armed. It worked however and the far right had practically disappeared from the streets of Britain by the mid 90s, sad to see it coming back but I for one am glad that there is still a strong anti fascist lobby to stand against the goons.
 
I'm sure you saw the police protecting him too. Tempers were high and shit happens.
The ideology itself is intrinsically linked to the actions it manifests.



No, but think about it this way, that punch may have saved that scrote's life. If he knows his actions are not tolerated, it might make him think twice next time about doing it. The next guy may hold a gun.

There are things in life that cross the line and provoke a response from most decent people with a conscience. That was one of it. Every action has a reaction. I've seen men beaten to death for killing and stealing pet dogs. Is it right? No. Understandable? Yes.

what? how is that understandable :lol:
 
what? how is that understandable :lol:
Because people responsible for the killing didnt set out to kill the poor twits. They have a close emotional attachment to their pets and seeing them killed invoked violence.

I'm in no way, shape or form condoning mob justice. You don't have to agree with an action in order to understand the reasoning behind it.
 
I think you are overreacting. There are emotions on both sides. It's not like people never get into a scruff. Making it sound as if it's a attack on free speech is a bit ott.


wasnt my intention and i have been trying to state that isnt what my issue is. I just think its wrong to advocate someone punching someone. I find it a bit odd that people are ok with the reaction i guess.
 
Here in lies my issue.
What issue? Any day a Nazi/KKK/white supremacist bastard gets beaten is a good day. This really isn't that hard.

The last time they were in power - they tried to wipe out an entire group of people from the face of the earth and in the US - they subjugated another race to the point, they barely thought of them as human. They lynched people for being black, not a hundred years ago, but a mere 50 years ago. These guys are their 'descendants' - not only are they not ashamed of those acts, but seek to glorify them and wish to go back to those days.

I've posted this links to their online Mecca/Makkah quite a few times over the past 7 years, but here are some more - read the posts and argue that punching these cnuts in the face is 'unhelpful' and makes those fighting against them 'the same'

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1222702/ - It's the start of another Holocaust as Jew reporter is called 'Shlomo' in Charlottesville

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/f39/ - forum dedicated to UK members

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/f219/ - New Members Introduce Yourselves (see the kind of people joining from around the world and their reasoning, age, background)

PS. This forum takes in thousands of dollars a month for from 'sustaining members' - so, people who put their money where their mouth is.
 
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May already of been posted but John Oliver as brillant as always.
 
What issue? Any day a Nazi/KKK/white supremacist bastard gets beaten is a good day. This really isn't that hard.

The last time they were in power - they tried to wipe out an entire group of people from the face of the earth and in the US - they subjugated another race to the point, they barely thought of them as human. They lynched people for being black, not a hundred years ago, but a mere 50 years ago. These guys are their 'descendants' - not only are they not ashamed of those acts, but seek to glorify them and wish to go back to those days.

I've posted this links to their online Mecca/Makkah quite a few times over the past 7 years, but here are some more - read the posts and argue that punching these cnuts in the face is 'unhelpful' and makes those fighting against them 'the same'

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t1222702/ - It's the start of another Holocaust as Jew reporter is called 'Shlomo' in Charlottesville

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/f39/ - forum dedicated to UK members

https://www.stormfront.org/forum/f219/ - New Members Introduce Yourselves (see the kind of people joining from around the world and their reasoning, age, background)

PS. This forum takes in thousands of dollars a month for from 'sustaining members' - so, people who put their money where their mouth is.

i guess i just dont see it like that. And will stop speaking about it further.
 
What are you marching for?

I've been on my share of marches against cnutish political moves like the poll tax, student loans etc but there was always a political point to be made. These national day parades don't look like some good time carnival parade to me, so what is their political aim? Is it purely exercising your right to march on your own streets like the dumbass Orange marches in Ireland where it is essentially a means of intimidating those you stand against, in this instance immigrants rather than catholics.

I have to say some of the antifa tactics in terms of going armed with brass knuckles, mace, knives etc is cnutish and there is clearly an element in there who are just out to cause trouble the same as you get with movements like Occupy or the anti globalisation protests. The anti fascist cause has always maintained a point of being there to counter these intimidatory protests however and when used effectively has sent the rats scurrying back into the dark. In my youth as a punk I was involved in ANL and AFA street actions to drive out the likes of the NF and BNP who would openly sell their racist rags in the main shopping streets of Britain, we'd usually only need to tell them to feck off and bin their literature but it wasn't unusual for a punch or two to be thrown, I also had some involvement with the redskins in France and Italy in the early 90s and there it was far scarier as the fascist thugs usually were armed. It worked however and the far right had practically disappeared from the streets of Britain by the mid 90s, sad to see it coming back but I for one am glad that there is still a strong anti fascist lobby to stand against the goons.

It's a bit of exercising my right to march but also a sign of appreciation for our history given how tough it has been and respect towards those who have fought in all uprisings we've had and who have died for our freedom. My country has been non-existent for 123 years under partitions, then we've been destroyed by II WW just to be thrown into lions after the war, which is being a country under a communist regime until 1989, where we've hypothetically changed the political system, but the problem is that there never was a proper decommunisiation process which left plenty of the scum in power, make it be banks, politics or church. Just like I feel the need to let the flag fly high on the September 1st (Warsaw Uprising) even though I'm not from Warsaw myself, I've got the same need of letting the flag fly high on the November 11th every year, with an occasional participation in the march.
 
It's a bit of exercising my right to march but also a sign of appreciation for our history given how tough it has been and respect towards those who have fought in all uprisings we've had and who have died for our freedom. My country has been non-existent for 123 years under partitions, then we've been destroyed by II WW just to be thrown into lions after the war, which is being a country under a communist regime until 1989, where we've hypothetically changed the political system, but the problem is that there never was a proper decommunisiation process which left plenty of the scum in power, make it be banks, politics or church. Just like I feel the need to let the flag fly high on the September 1st (Warsaw Uprising) even though I'm not from Warsaw myself, I've got the same need of letting the flag fly high on the November 11th every year, with an occasional participation in the march.

same. i let the flag fly april 3rd, may 17th, july 12th, august 4th and the second wednesday after the first tuesday in october
 
What are you marching for?
They march for their tribal 'values'. In these cases, mostly ethnonationalism and xenophobia. 'Insignificant minority' are thugs with nazi insignia who are directly violent towards ethnic minorities, immigrants and 'traitors'. Guy you quoted is probably in 'decent majority' that more or less actively supports or condones that kind of violence.

In some countries like Poland, due to history, 'decent majority' nationalists are more wary of nazi iconography. But their ideology is same old vile ethnonationalism (with usual additions of religious fundamentalism, social darwinism etc). What is usually (and correctly) called fascism.
 
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Tribal 'values'. In these cases, ethnonationalis and xenophobia. 'Insignificant minority' are thugs with nazi insignia who are directly violent towards ethnic minorities, immigrants and 'traitors'. Guy you quoted is probably in 'decent majority' that more or less actively supports or condones that kind of violence.

In some countries like Poland, due to history, 'decent majority' nationalists are more wary of nazi iconography. But their ideology is same old vile ethnonationalism (with usual additions of religious fundamentalism, social darwinism etc). What is usually (and correctly) called fascism.

Have you graduated from some useless and shit subject like @Eboue that you throw such far reaching conclusions?
 
No, merely making sure that there's some counterweight to your bullshit claims so people are not ill-informed.
 
Freedom of speech?
I'm not worried about the neo nazis. Out of 350 million people you're going to get some weirdos.
I'm more concerned about those armed militias. Now that's feckin crazy!
 
I'm more concerned about those armed militias. Now that's feckin crazy!

Feds bust Oklahoma man for attempt to detonate car bomb blocks from 1995 Oklahoma City bombing
http://www.rawstory.com/2017/08/man...near-1995-oklahoma-city-bombing-memorial/amp/

Follower of the Three Percenters.

The three percenters were the heavy armed militia walking around in Charlottesville and who now possibly fearing the DOJ coming down on them, have disavowed themselves from the organizers of the rally.
 
Thought this was quite a good Twitter thread in light of Charlottesville.



Really makes you think about your own role in events. Well, at least it did for me.