What did Hillary do wrong and what's next for her?

Zlatattack said:
@vi1lain it's unfortunate but it seems America is regressing, especially in areas like racism and equality. 2009 seems like a whole world away.

This is a bit of a tangent, but i'd like to take the opportunity to ask you this question. As an ethnic minority I expect elected officials from a similar ethnic background to have a better understanding of the problems faced by our community and to represent that in the office they hold. As a black American do you think Obama did enough for black America?
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I'm not a black american, but I do have perspective from family members & friends and such.

Personally I think he did a good job, given the situation he inherited. He wasn't elected to be the leader for black people, he was elected to be the leader for America, which is still majority white.
Also the problems that black americans face has been handed to them over hundreds of years - that would have never resulted in major changes in the 8 years he was given, it's just not realistic.
But unemployment among black americans decreased faster than the overall unemployment rate, the median income of black households increased, poverty rate for black americans fell faster, high school graduation reached its highest rates, more black people enrolled into college since he got elected, I think i read that black women entrepreneurs are the fastest growing business owners in America in recent years.
These are the kind of changes you'd want any president to be making to all demographic groups, but considering the black americans specifically outperformed in certain areas you have to say that he at least did some good for black americans.
He couldn't fix it all, but I think he did a good job.
 
The crucial factor in Trump's EC win over HRC was winning 2008 or 2008+2012 Obama voters. So it seems a little weird to say that a minority candidate cannot win, given that these were...Obama voters.
There are ofcourse hardcore racists who make up a huge part of the electorate. Short of reanimated Strom Thurmond, no Democrat will ever appeal to them. It is the former Obama voters and the huge numbers that stay home (disproportionately young, poor and minority), that need to be the Dem target votes. In the UK Corbyn seemed to have some success with non-voters, and Bernie-like numbers with young voters.
 
berbatrick said:
The crucial factor in Trump's EC win over HRC was winning 2008 or 2008+2012 Obama voters. So it seems a little weird to say that a minority candidate cannot win, given that these were...Obama voters.
There are ofcourse hardcore racists who make up a huge part of the electorate. Short of reanimated Strom Thurmond, no Democrat will ever appeal to them. It is the former Obama voters and the huge numbers that stay home (disproportionately young, poor and minority), that need to be the Dem target votes. In the UK Corbyn seemed to have some success with non-voters, and Bernie-like numbers with young voters.
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Except that Obama was a once in a lifetime candidate, not your average run of the mill "minority candidate".
 
Raoul said:
Except that Obama was a once in a lifetime candidate, not your average run of the mill "minority candidate".
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So these voters, whose guiding force in this election is racial resentment and affinity with Trump's racism, voted for their enemy because he was charismatic?
 
berbatrick said:
The crucial factor in Trump's EC win over HRC was winning 2008 or 2008+2012 Obama voters. So it seems a little weird to say that a minority candidate cannot win, given that these were...Obama voters.
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I'd expect it's more a case of getting your base out. I doubt that many switched from Obama to Trump. I don't think Hillary mobilised enough of her base in battleground states.
 
berbatrick said:
So these voters, whose guiding force in this election is racial resentment and affinity with Trump's racism, voted for their enemy because he was charismatic?
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I don't understand whatever point you're attempting to make. Mine is that spare an exceptional, once in a life time type politician like Obama, America will continue electing white males until another wave or two of baby boomers die off and social norms become a bit more heterogeneous.
 
WackyWengerWorld said:
I'd expect it's more a case of getting your base out. I doubt that many switched from Obama to Trump. I don't think Hillary mobilised enough of her base in battleground states.
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Can't find it right now but the evidence of a switch from Obama to Trump in Ohio, Penn, Wisconsin, Michigan, is very convincing.

Raoul said:
I don't understand whatever point you're attempting to make. Mine is that spare an exceptional, once in a life time type politician like Obama, America will continue electing white males until another wave or two of baby boomers die off and social norms become a bit more heterogeneous.
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Mine is that the campaign and content might be a little more important than identity, at least for voters who're not solidly Republican. Running Warren on a Bernie-like platform would be an interesting experiment.
 
berbatrick said:
Can't find it right now but the evidence of a switch from Obama to Trump in Ohio, Penn, Wisconsin, Michigan, is very convincing.



Mine is that the campaign and content might be a little more important than identity, at least for voters who're not solidly Republican. Running Warren on a Bernie-like platform would be an interesting experiment.
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I don't think the Dems should touch the older crowd of candidates. Warren will be near 70 if she were to run.
 
Buchan said:
I find it strange when some Democrats complain about race continuing to play a major role in the U.S landscape (I'm not suggesting it doesn't) when they're the one party who advocated very prominently the idea of identity politics. It's a delicate issue and one which the Left may rue in years to come:

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/07/left-sin-richard-rorty/535278/
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Race kinda played a big part in the U.S landscape because of things like slavery & native-american genocide.

The issue isn't identity politics, the issue is why identity politics was needed in the first place.
 
@Raoul

We won't have an election as an experiment to test Warren's popularity, but we do have polls. Which tell us:
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Ofc, the not sure numbers point to lower name recognition, but those are bad numbers against a terribly unpopular incumbent.

Edit: the ~double digit lead for Bernie over Trump has been constant through the start of 2016.
 
berbatrick said:
@Raoul

We won't have an election as an experiment to test Warren's popularity, but we do have polls. Which tell us:
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Ofc, the not sure numbers point to lower name recognition, but those are bad numbers against a terribly unpopular incumbent.

Edit: the ~double digit lead for Bernie over Trump has been constant through the start of 2016.
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Sadly these numbers don't price in the beating each of these Dems would take if they actually ran against Trump. Once his propaganda machine gets going, the likes of Bernie and Warren would have significantly higher negatives.
 
Raoul said:
Sadly these numbers don't price in the beating each of these Dems would take if they actually ran against Trump. Once his propaganda machine gets going, the likes of Bernie and Warren would have significantly higher negatives.
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This was said since about August 2015 in regards to Bernie, but whatever. It's far away, and there are too many variables.
 
berbatrick said:
This was said since about August 2015 in regards to Bernie, but whatever. It's far away, and there are too many variables.
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It was correct then as it is now. You can't create hypothetical matchups based on polling since the candidates haven't done any negative ads on each other. Once they do, the numbers will swing wildly.
 
Some good data for their next election strategy - don't target the bottom right in Philly subrubs.

 
@Red Dreams

I guess this is as good as place as any to continue...

Red Dreams said:
You are missing the bigger picture which is voters from both sides rejected the status quo. This was obvious from the nomination process.
Even now the voters are being blamed for what happened. When the reality is that both parties pushed status que politicians. The GOP failed. The DNC managed to get their candidate through.
And now we have Trump.

The problem is the DNC is still not listening to its base.
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The DNC did not get their candidate through as you put it, their primary voters did. Unless you suggest the DNC completely ignore the 2-3 million people who voted for Hillary ahead of Bernie in the primaries, there was no way Bernie could have won the nomination.

I understand all the points about southern states, etc, but unless you suggest the DNC only run primaries in swing states in the future, there is not much to be done about that.
 
Just heard her talking about how creepy it was to have Trump stalking around her. I was amazed the organisers of the debate didn't stop that - good TV though, I suppose. Now there's a man in the WH who knows the price of everything but the value of nothing.
 
Why do I get the impression both of them are going to do this again in a couple of years.
 
If she runs again, I'd put my house on Trump doing 2 terms.
 
Mrs Smoker said:
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Reminded me a bit of Al Gore during his debates with Dubya, at one he followed him around, during another Gore kept sighing/groaning audibly at everything Dubya said.


Reading the exerts it is just more of Hillary blaming someone else for her failures. She entered two Presidential Campaigns as a favorite, lost them both. Once in the primaries, once in the General. She needs to realize that maybe, just maybe it might be her that is a huge part of the problem.

I will grant her that the hate she gets from the right is way over the top, but when she can't hold her own party, she can't blame a vast right wing conspiracy on that.
 
She sums up that smug liberal attitude that has played a big part in the rise of populist politics. This entitled way of treating people with different viewpoints as intellectually and socially beneath you.
 
Boycott said:
She sums up that smug liberal attitude that has played a big part in the rise of populist politics. This entitled way of treating people with different viewpoints as intellectually and socially beneath you.
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Agreed. It also explains Wasserman-Schulz's smugness when she and her DNC stooges attempted to stack everthing in Hillary's favor and against the Bern.
 
Raoul said:
Why do I get the impression both of them are going to do this again in a couple of years.
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Bernie's definitely running - he has been touring Iowa, Wisconsin, upstate NY, Michigan, and going repeatedly to West Virginia. She has re-hired most of her campaign team.
There's also Kamala who is a definite.
My hope is that Warren runs from the left wing of the party with Bernie's endorsement. She should appeal to all Hillary and most Bernie supporters.
However, nationally, Bernie remains their best bet.
 
berbatrick said:
Bernie's definitely running - he has been touring Iowa, Wisconsin, upstate NY, Michigan, and going repeatedly to West Virginia. She has re-hired most of her campaign team.
There's also Kamala who is a definite.
My hope is that Warren runs from the left wing of the party with Bernie's endorsement. She should appeal to all Hillary and most Bernie supporters.
However, nationally, Bernie remains their best bet.
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Harris has somehow become the darling of the party elites for no reason whatsoever, other than the fact that there are few other viable candidates considering a run. Her best shot may be to slowly latch onto Bernie's coat tails and eventually get some VP consideration....because let's face it, if Bernie runs this time, no other Dem is going to stand a chance.
 
Padding with a fecking facebook meme:lol:. At least they know the books audience. And rustlers:lol:.
 
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