http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/41127404/loreal-sacks-first-transgender-model-munroe-bergdorf
She seems a little unstable if you ask me.
She seems a little unstable if you ask me.
L'Oreal sack first transgender model for racism
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
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I've always wondered if models get interviewed aside from shoots.
She's not entirely wrong.
That's a pretty accurate statement in line with most theories of European/white wealth arising from exploitation of colonial subjects from about the fifteenth century onward.
That's a pretty accurate statement in line with most theories of European/white wealth arising from exploitation of colonial subjects from about the fifteenth century onward.
Not the type of statement a company can afford to let a representative make.
I think I understand what she was trying to say, she just went about it in the most appalling way. She said some dumb things in public and got fired. Not really a story.
Good.
"Because most of ya'll don't even realise or refuse to acknowledge that your existence, privilege and success as a race is built on the backs, blood and death of people of colour.
"Your entire existence is drenched in racism."
Not that isn't some merit to these comments but when you attribute every white persons' existence (from USA the Russia) to the subjugation of other races it shows a great deal of ignorance and bigotry.
"Because most of ya'll don't even realise or refuse to acknowledge that your existence, privilege and success as a race is built on the backs, blood and death of people of colour.
"Your entire existence is drenched in racism."
Not that isn't some merit to these comments but when you attribute every white persons' existence (from USA the Russia) to the subjugation of other races it shows a great deal of ignorance and bigotry.
This. It's an incredibly ignorant comment to make.
Yeah she has a point in there... it was just really badly expressed. Whole thing a bit stupid.
I don't think the comment was ignorant. Her problem is that she generalizes, but she's not entirely wrong.
On the other hand, you can't be a spokesperson/employee of a multinational corporation and insult their entire target market.
On the other hand, you can't be a spokesperson/employee of a multinational corporation and insult their entire target market.
Keep it professional. You don't get paid for political view.
That all white people are racist and all our lives are basically built on the backs of slaves?
Her comments were pretty racist and she rightfully got sacked for them.
She is pretty much spot on but clearly messed up by stupidly saying all white people are racist(Even in the video I posted she mentions ''white culture'' which is a bizarre term and often used by white white supremacist).
She was born, educated and raised in England. She's as much a beneficiary of the evils of the slave trade as anyone else. Relatively speaking she's one of the most privileged people in the country, and she wants to tell all white people, whether they be rich or unemployed, that they're more privileged than she is just because of the colour of her skin? Sounds pretty ignorant to me.
And since when have we "refused to acknowledge that our existence, privilege and success as a race is built on the backs, blood and death of people of colour"?
"Honestly I don't have energy to talk about the racial violence of white people any more. Yes ALL white people"
It wasn't that bad until i read this part. Totally unnecessary. She or he was privileged to be hired as loreal transgender model, it's not like she's a victim of racial violence (she might have in the past) but not all white people are evil.
As much as what she says might be true but she wouldn't be what he/she is today without the contribution, sacrifice, and blood of the good white people. Not everyone is bad
It wasn't that bad until i read this part. Totally unnecessary. She or he was privileged to be hired as loreal transgender model, it's not like she's a victim of racial violence (she might have in the past) but not all white people are evil.
As much as what she says might be true but she wouldn't be what he/she is today without the contribution, sacrifice, and blood of the good white people. Not everyone is bad
I completely disagree with a lot of what she is saying. Pretty much every metric of success in life: health outcomes, educational achievement, salary etc.. The biggest differentiator is the wealth of your immediate family. If you're white, black, asian and from a poor background you are statistically more likely to go to prison, less likely to reach average life expectancy and less likely to get a post-school education. Black families tend to make up a higher proportion of this group, partly due all the historic issues she talked about but also not helped by the fact that over 50% of black british children for example are raised in single parent famalies.
"You can benefit from racism and not be a racist person" - That's not what she said in her posts.
"If you're saying that you are not racist what are you doing to dismantle racism." - By being a normal human being and not judging someone based on the color of their skin?
This just in, posting dumb racist comments online will get you fired.
Our prosperity has been built on the back of exploitation. That's well documented. She didn't articulate the point properly, but she does have the fulcrum of a larger point in her statement.
You can benefit from a system and descry its inadequacies without being compromised on a personal level. If that weren't the case, reform wouldn't be possible.
I agree with what shes saying, Great Britain, France, Portugal, Belgium, Netherlands, Spain, all benefited by enslaving "lesser" or what they saw as lesser races.
You can have a point and not be a racist dick about it though. She wasn't sacked for having a point.
In any case, is there a defined time limit before us racist white folk can stop being part of the problem just because of the colour of our skin? Maybe I need educating on it, because whilst I understand and even agree with the point you are making, the one this idiot tried and failed to, I don't see how I'm still part of the problem as she goes on to say?
My two young sons are growing up not knowing or giving a feck about the colour of their friends skin. They are beyond all this and innocent to it. They know respect and love for all people, I make that the core of how I raise them, race and gender mean nothing to them and I'll damn sure be doing my best to keep it that way. So maybe I'm wrong, but I seem to be doing more about the fight against racism than this twat is.
This is true.
But if she just said that, then she'd likely still have a job. It was the racist comments she was sacked for.
Disgusting comments. You dont fight racism with racism and generalisation.
This is a sentiment expressed by many white people and a large part of me agrees with it. And you're right, you're probably a great person and have lived your life the right way and have taught your kids the right things. Surely you can't be held accountable for the sins of your forefathers.
But, we are talking about hundreds of years of racist policies, oppression and suppression and to offset that, you have for example the US - where, a little more 50 years ago, black people couldn't drink from the same water fountains.
350+ years of systematic oppression and discrimination and 50 years on, people are like...why can't you all get over it already and why can't we move on
To answer your question, while I believe racism and prejudice will always be a part of our human experience, we're going to need the baby boomers to die to move on to the next stage.
Welcome to the history of the world even places that weren't populated by white people.
This is a sentiment expressed by many white people and a large part of me agrees with it. And you're right, you're probably a great person and have lived your life the right way and have taught your kids the right things.
We are talking about hundreds of years of racist policies, oppression and suppression and to offset that, you have for example the US - where, a little more 50 years ago, black people couldn't drink from the same water fountains.
350+ years of systematic oppression and discrimination and 50 years on, people are like...why can't you all get over it already and why can't we move on
To answer your question, while I believe racism and prejudice will always be a part of our human experience, we're going to need the baby boomers to die to move on to the next stage.
No, my point was never to just get over it. Just this point can be made without the person making it being racist herself.
I'd never and have never said "just get over it" in regards to racism and slavery. It's still to this day a very real issue and one we should all be educated on.
However, when someone is being racist about it herself, then that creates a bigger divide and hurts the cause. That's what she and her daft twitter followers should understand and it's what she was rightfully sacked for. You can't justify racist views just because there is a point there, especially when you are in her position and being a massive hypocrite to boot.
This is a sentiment expressed by many white people and a large part of me agrees with it. And you're right, you're probably a great person and have lived your life the right way and have taught your kids the right things. Surely you can't be held accountable for the sins of your forefathers.
But, we are talking about hundreds of years of racist policies, oppression and suppression and to offset that, you have for example the US - where, a little more 50 years ago, black people couldn't drink from the same water fountains.
350+ years of systematic oppression and discrimination and 50 years on, people are like...why can't you all get over it already and why can't we move on
To answer your question, while I believe racism and prejudice will always be a part of our human experience, we're going to need the baby boomers to die to move on to the next stage.
Interestingly there are more people living in slavery today than ever before. Might be a good idea to end the practice everywhere before we start the countdown to whatever it is you want/don't want to move on from/to.
I'm having a bit of a shocker - I meant to put in brackets (not specifically saying this is what you want).
I even went with american examples (dates and water fountain) to move away from the post you quoted which mentioned the UK, France, Belgium, Netherlands.
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What does this mean? I didn't really understand any of it.
That's fair my friend.
In terms of getting over it, that's not the right attitude. Moving on and coming together is different to just trying to forget, we should never forget the horrible things that have and as @Don't Kill Bill points out continues to happen. Pipe dream I know, but at least some try.
Her success is an example of how far we've come, no matter how little, in more than just racism but bigotry and acceptance too. If she's going to use that success as a platform to air her views, then she should at least try to understand how she can then hurt those very causes with her own ignorance.
I think you can infer from that video, particularly from the part defining racism as seeing inequality and doing nothing, that she intended or at least understood she would lose her job for saying what she said as publicly as she did. Also there's a subtle difference in language but a gulf of difference in meaning between the terms 'all white people' and 'white'. It's like the difference between someone saying 'all men' and that euphemism 'the man'. For alot of black people when we say 'white' we're not talking about all white people, we're talking about an elite esoteric demographic of whites who as she says benefitted from enslaving not just blacks, but in it's modern guise every poor person irrespective of colour in the shape of things like wage slavery, the same people who propogate racism amongst whites in the lower socio-economic stratospheres to keep poor people fighting one another so the attention is never turned to themselves (e.g. xenophobia - loss of income, housing because of immigrants).
If you want to chastise her for not comprehensively articulating herself without error then you are probably correct to do so because language is important and can be inflammatory, but in that case you should express the same derision for just about any public figure who's expressed a personal opinion about something polemic. However there is a great deal of truth to what she said and the context from which she said it gives her alot of credence: she isn't blaming white society for not being successful, she has been remarkably if not inspiringly successful and she almost with that statement chose to withdraw from the world where she's made her fame and fortune because she can see it for what it really is, a microcosm of the big divisive social issue.
If you want to chastise her for not comprehensively articulating herself without error then you are probably correct to do so because language is important and can be inflammatory, but in that case you should express the same derision for just about any public figure who's expressed a personal opinion about something polemic. However there is a great deal of truth to what she said and the context from which she said it gives her alot of credence: she isn't blaming white society for not being successful, she has been remarkably if not inspiringly successful and she almost with that statement chose to withdraw from the world where she's made her fame and fortune because she can see it for what it really is, a microcosm of the big divisive social issue.
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It means that your point of someone benefiting from a system and criticising it is critically irrelevant.
Her success is an example of how far we've come, which is a very short distance. How many major black or ethnic models do you see in the fashion and beauty industry? She's not one of many, she's not even one of a few. This is the same facile logic that people used to suggest that Obama becoming president was some major step or milestone in racial equality in the west.
Shouldn't she has just resigned and said that then? It would have made a much bigger impact.
Yeah, my very next line said no matter how little, no idea why you'd choose to ignore that then make a point round the same thing. So what is your point, we shouldn't keep making these steps and highlight them as the way forward just because they aren't as big as we want? I fully agree that we should be making massive strides, in fact, we shouldn't even have to talk about this full stop in 2017. But until the world comes around to this way of thinking we sure as shit should be putting these steps out there. They should drive us on, not allow us to rest on our laurels with the fight.
Btw a black president was a massive step. It should be treated as such and aspired to be repeated over and over, not sadly go back in time like the US seems to be once again
Shouldn't she has just resigned and said that then? It would have made a much bigger impact.
Yeah, my very next line said no matter how little, no idea why you'd choose to ignore that then make a point round the same thing. So what is your point, we shouldn't keep making these steps and highlight them as the way forward just because they aren't as big as we want? I fully agree that we should be making massive strides, in fact, we shouldn't even have to talk about this full stop in 2017. But until the world comes around to this way of thinking we sure as shit should be putting these steps out there. They should drive us on, not allow us to rest on our laurels with the fight.
Btw a black president was a massive step. It should be treated as such and aspired to be repeated over and over, not sadly go back in time like the US seems to be once again
In response to your first point, would you know who she is or be reading about this story if she'd done it that way? And secondly it appears I did misinterpret what you said but it was phrased ambiguously.
Edit :- However you go on to confirm what I read into your post. My point is that the first black president in 2008 is really not any kind of step at all apart from perhaps a symbol for the very young or simple-minded. Obama had to be an exceptional man to join a list of 40-odd slave-owners, liars, adulterers and atleast one known doofus. He had to have an impeccable record, just about the worst dirt anyone anywhere could dish on him was a photo of him smoking cannabis as a young man. He had to be educated to a very high level off the back of his own merit, he had to have the wisdom and candor to appeal to the older voters mixed with a charm and cool to attract the younger of the electorate. The fact that one remarkable black man was able to 'transcend' the very highest glass ceiling is meaningless, when a black man as average and clearly full of shit as say Clinton makes it, then that's real change. I believe there were enough ethnic people and reasonably-minded white liberals that you might have got a black president 40/50 years ago if there wasn't systemic and criminal methods employed to stop blacks from voting.
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How is it? It's relevant because she's saying that all white people are privileged, while ignoring the fact that she herself lives a privileged life within the system she's criticising. She makes no sense. It's like when Russell Brand tried to portray himself as a man of the proletariat, despite being a millionaire. You can of course point out the issue, but you come off looking like a bit of a champagne socialist.
If she'd merely said that European nations raped the natural resources and labour of African nations, leaving the former successful and the latter immeasurably behind, she'd be 100% correct. It's not that fact (which I don't think I've heard anyone take issue with, but she seems to think we do?) that's the problem, it's her comments which bookend it.
I have seen arguments that basically imply being white makes you a racist since you benefit from hereditary wealth and other advantages. I completely disagree with these arguments. People do not choose what colour or nationality they are born. It is a mirror image of old-school racism. You can be born white/upper-caste and benefit from that in different ways (people don't question your position, for example) but that doesn't make you racist. IMO Racism requires some feeling of racial brotherhood and some antagonism towards people of other races (however defined).
Practically, I also think these arguments are dangerous and self-defeating.
Practically, I also think these arguments are dangerous and self-defeating.
Well if you give any credence to her point then there's really no surprise as to why. But judging from her television interview she seemed stable to me.
Fair enough. And yes, I did know who she was tbf and I would read the story if a thread was made about it. Because, joking aside, that's how I found out about this in the first place. I don't do clickbait, so it wasn't the word racism that brought me in here just on case you might think that.
We are definitely on the same side of this in regards to racism and all forms of discrimination. In this specific case though, I think she was rightly sacked and shouldn't be lauded for using racist views to make a point about racism.
What point is that?
Is she? First sentence in that video is "Racism comes from white culture...". Didn't even bother listening after that. That's not even remotely true. There's evidence of racism across the entire human race from one group against another based on colour, religion, ethnicity or any differentiating factor people find. That's the human (animal) nature, tribal.
You can exist within a system and point out its flaws without being a hypocrite because to operate outside of it is logically impossible. So, any point of hypocrisy is entirely redundant.
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