German Elections 2017

devilish said:
Southern EU states can either save immigrants at sea or else they can let them drown. I assure you no one down there invites immigrants in
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Yes of course they are offering humanitarian help, but what real support are they getting from the rest of the EU, on the surface very little.
OK Turkey's been bought off for the moment, but what happens when they ask to be made members of the EU and are turned down?

Merkel got this shit storm blown down on everyone, but she is now powerless to do anything about it and it seem will have her hands full at home with the far-right, I'm sure all the other countries in the EU will rush to accept the immigrants. I am not blaming the Southern EU countries, they are doing what they can but are getting precious little help from Mrs Merkel
 
I Believe said:
Yes of course they are offering humanitarian help, but what real support are they getting from the rest of the EU, on the surface very little.
OK Turkey's been bought off for the moment, but what happens when they ask to be made members of the EU and are turned down?

Merkel got this shit storm blown down on everyone, but she is now powerless to do anything about it and it seem will have her hands full at home with the far-right, I'm sure all the other countries in the EU will rush to accept the immigrants. I am not blaming the Southern EU countries, they are doing what they can but are getting precious little help from Mrs Merkel
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They are getting little support simply because the countries such as the UK insist on the Dublin 3 regulation ie a treaty that expect all immigrants to remain there. Merkel was brave enough to break the ranks and lead by example. She was also instrumental in mandatory burden sharing which expects a fairer distribution to immigration + she had played a big role in setting immigration deals with Libya and Turkey.

That might explain why Germany is nowadays Europe's leader while the UK is struggling to find the necessary friends needed to support its bid for a decent trade deal. You reap what you sow
 
I Believe said:
Yes of course they are offering humanitarian help, but what real support are they getting from the rest of the EU, on the surface very little.
OK Turkey's been bought off for the moment, but what happens when they ask to be made members of the EU and are turned down?

Merkel got this shit storm blown down on everyone, but she is now powerless to do anything about it and it seem will have her hands full at home with the far-right, I'm sure all the other countries in the EU will rush to accept the immigrants. I am not blaming the Southern EU countries, they are doing what they can but are getting precious little help from Mrs Merkel
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In case you haven't read a single news outlet in the past 5 years: there's no membership perspective for Turkey, nor does Erdogan want Turkey to become a member. Yours is a strawman argument.

And yeah, opening the borders that day, relieving the poorer European countries from much of the pressure and then subsequently working to close the Balkan route really didn't help them at all. Have you even spend a second looking at the numbers? God knows the solution wasn't perfect. Sure as hell preparations should have started as the problem surely could be anticipated better. But the result also surely isn't the worst possible.

BTW, ATM it really isn't southern EU countries but just Italy receiving refugees.
 
fcbforever said:
In case you haven't read a single news outlet in the past 5 years: there's no membership perspective for Turkey, nor does Erdogan want Turkey to become a member. Yours is a strawman argument.

And yeah, opening the borders that day, relieving the poorer European countries from much of the pressure and then subsequently working to close the Balkan route really didn't help them at all. Have you even spend a second looking at the numbers? God knows the solution wasn't perfect. Sure as hell preparations should have started as the problem surely could be anticipated better. But the result also surely isn't the worst possible.

BTW, ATM it really isn't southern EU countries but just Italy receiving refugees.
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I fully agree on what you said however there's a slight correction on this

officially you're right. However, countries such as Malta tend to close an eye (or two) on refugees/asylum seekers coming from Italy as a sign of solidarity.

That's how you make friends in Europe, something Brexiters has yet to fully comprehend.
 
devilish said:
That might explain why Germany is nowadays Europe's leader
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Yes, of course it is, Greater Germany will be the new name for the amalgam of European states, otherwise officially known as the United states of Europe and you will do very well under that regime, especially with no pesky Britain to interfere, sunlit uplands is all you have to look forward to and nothing to worry about, Mrs Merkel will take care of everything!
Angela can't wait for us to leave, just hope she gives us a good leaving present!
 
I Believe said:
Yes, of course it is, Greater Germany will be the new name for the amalgam of European states, otherwise officially known as the United states of Europe and you will do very well under that regime, especially with no pesky Britain to interfere, sunlit uplands is all you have to look forward to and nothing to worry about, Mrs Merkel will take care of everything!
Angela can't wait for us to leave, just hope she gives us a good leaving present!
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Its not a regime but a two way relationship built on mutual solidarity. Any country is free to act like a cnut of course. But then again it can't expect any sign of solidarity in return.

And yes the less cnuts there are living in the neighbourhood the better.
 
fcbforever said:
there's no membership perspective for Turkey,

No officially that's true, until they threaten to allow the people smugglers to start up again... well then??

fcbforever said:
nor does Erdogan want Turkey to become a member.
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Wow, did he tell you that himself? Don't worry he's a trustworthy guy if he says he doesn't want in, you must believe him, honestly I mean, a man who has decimated his opponents (not just political ones) at home, you can believe everything he says!
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I also cant comprehend why brexiters are so frightened about a united states of Europe considering how eager they are to appease a united states of america. The united kingdom itself is a united states of 4 countries
 

@I Believe

He seem trustworthy enough to get the UK foreign Secretary endorsement for eu membership and that came few weeks after demonising turkey during the brexit campaign
 

Wow you are daft. But hey, since you seem so knowledgeable in geopolitics and Turkish interior politics, please explain to me why Erdogan would want to join the EU. I mean, you seem to have some inside knowledge no expert on the field does have, so please share!

You *must* be able to grasp what a monumentally stupid statement you just made. This isn't about what Erdogan says, but about what is actually done and how you can explain it. What he says is at best a fraction of that explanation.
 
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devilish said:
I also can't comprehend why brexiters are so frightened about a united states of Europe
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Sorry, I think you misread what I was saying, I welcome a United States of Europe under Germany's thumb (sorry again) I meant leadership,
we can then have some meaningful discussions with Frau Merkel! Of course if young Macron hopes to be a future EU, or whatever, leader, he will need to sit in (officially as the French observer) and look over her shoulder so he can see how its done!

devilish said:
He seem trustworthy enough to get the UK foreign Secretary endorsement for eu membership
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Yes, and look what happened to him! Actually I think it was David Cameron's endorsement and he was PM... at the time, sadly no longer, a referendum result is a long time in politics... as someone once said!
 
I Believe said:
Yes, of course it is!
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It is. In fact all eu countries has the right to a veto that cripple any decision taken. Wales and Scotland can only dream of having the same power in the uk that wallonia, luxembourg and malta has in the eu

You wont lecture a maltese about oppressive empires. In fact we've been under one not very long ago
 
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UweBein said:
Doubt that highly. She was ousted by all the other AFD leaders and it was only a matter of time until she would have become a fringe element within the party. She simply chose the moment to leave the party, so she would not have faced further scrutiny and isolation.
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She was ousted because she wanted to transform the Afd in a sort of "CDU". She is a sort of "soft right".
 
I Believe said:
Sorry, I think you misread what I was saying, I welcome a United States of Europe under Germany's thumb (sorry again) I meant leadership,
we can then have some meaningful discussions with Frau Merkel! Of course if young Macron hopes to be a future EU, or whatever, leader, he will need to sit in (officially as the French observer) and look over her shoulder so he can see how its done!



Yes, and look what happened to him! Actually I think it was David Cameron's endorsement and he was PM... at the time, sadly no longer, a referendum result is a long time in politics... as someone once said!
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I think you are mixing the EU with the UK. The former give countries a veto + it allows them to check out whenever they want without having to beg permission to anyone

Regarding your second comment it was Boris. Which speaks volumes of how trustworthy and credible the country is
 
fcbforever said:
Wow you are daft.
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I certainly am, trying to have (a somewhat light hearted) conversation and exchange of views with foulmouthed kid.. but hang in there sonny you might learn something!

fcbforever said:
please explain to me why Erdogan would want to join the EU
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Good question, why would anyone want to join the EU? However since Turkey has been holding informal talks on the matter for years its a reasonable assumption they want to join?

fcbforever said:
This isn't about what Erdogan says,
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It is as far as Turkey is concerned, he's their leader and he has vanquished most of his internal enemies, so can't see many in Turkey resisting his wishes, but I'm sure there are some who may disagree with him
 
I Believe said:
You are having a laugh aren't you?... check out.. hah! hah! you have a sense of humour after all
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The uk can leave now if it wants to. It will pushed out in 2019 unless it gets the transitional deal its begging for
 
devilish said:
The UK will leave the eu in 2 years time unless of course it gets the transitional deal its begging for
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Not exactly whenever they want is it?

Also if the transition period is not agreed, we are still stuck in the EU until March 2019 because of article 50 (which ironically a Brit drafted).. as I say not exactly whenever we want.. that why it made me laugh. If there is a wrong end of things the EU admirers/remoaners will grab it!
 
Where the most foreigners live:
DKj4r8OW4AA81M-.jpg


Where the AFD got the most votes:

DKj4r8OWkAAJHXp.jpg
 
devilish said:
In fact we've been under one not very long ago
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And I'm sorry to say you may be heading back to a similar situation.

You really do believe the smaller countries will have an influential say in major decisions, without suffering penalties of some sort? I'm afraid the world, especially in the EU doesn't work that way, but you will find out for yourselves, hopefully not too painfully!
 
Can't Brexiteers keep themselves to poisoning British politics for now? Your job isn't done there yet. Those willing to buy into your lies won't be inclined to read some thread about German politics on a United forum anyway, so you might as well not bother.

I'm happy with the result despite voting SPD/FDP (1st and 2nd vote). SPD will hopefully find a way back to their social roots in opposition, CDU/CSU worst ideas concerning security will hopefully be curbed by FDP, and the Greens might just make the whole "Energiewende" thing more than a marketing ploy. There will be a lot of work to be done to make it work, but Merkel is used to that and capable of it. Hopefully the fact that consensus has to be found will protect us from any rushed reforms, although it might make it harder to play our part in reforming the EU.

Thoroughly happy about FDP's showing. We get to have our own Tea Party now too, which I don't mind much. At least you know what you're dealing with when someone tells you he votes AfD. These people aren't really new, they used to hide in the CDU/CSU and kept quite, or didn't vote and talked their nonsense in their local bar.
 
I Believe said:
Not exactly whenever they want is it?

Also if the transition period is not agreed, we are still stuck in the EU until March 2019 because of article 50 (which ironically a Brit drafted).. as I say not exactly whenever we want.. that why it made me laugh. If there is a wrong end of things the EU admirers/remoaners will grab it!
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Actually it can leave immediately (Farage words not mine). The UK will be pushed out in 2019 unless it manages to get the transitional deal it desperately needs
 
I Believe said:
And I'm sorry to say you may be heading back to a similar situation.

You really do believe the smaller countries will have an influential say in major decisions, without suffering penalties of some sort? I'm afraid the world, especially in the EU doesn't work that way, but you will find out for yourselves, hopefully not too painfully!
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As said, we've got more experience about being part of an oppressive regime then the UK is so really, don't lecture us on that

Also note that small EU countries doesn't have a say in major decisions. In fact it has a VETO. Which is far more then Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland has in the UK
 
devilish said:
The UK will be pushed out in 2019
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So from being able to leave when we want, which was your original argument, you are now saying we will be pushed out in 2019.?

Are you sure you don't work for the EU in some capacity... I recognise the 'logic' in your thinking, from when I worked for them in the late 90's to the early 00's!
 
I Believe said:
So from being able to leave when we want, which was your original argument, you are now saying we will be pushed out in 2019.?

Are you sure you don't work for the EU in some capacity... I recognise the 'logic' in your thinking, from when I worked for them in the late 90's to the early 00's!
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You do realise that the UK resigned and they have to leave by the end of March 2019 but they can leave before if they want - why do keep repeating that you worked for the EU - I'm frightened to ask in what capacity.

Btw how did May's Florence speech affect the result of the German election and has Merkel now rushed to Brussels to ensure the UK get the best possible deal ever - sorry can't keep a straight face:lol:
 
I Believe said:
So from being able to leave when we want, which was your original argument, you are now saying we will be pushed out in 2019.?

Are you sure you don't work for the EU in some capacity... I recognise the 'logic' in your thinking, from when I worked for them in the late 90's to the early 00's!
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Ahem...you realise it was Britain which invoked the article stating they would leave until then? It's not "being pushed out" it's how this legally works. You can leave earlier though, good riddance.
 
I Believe said:
So from being able to leave when we want, which was your original argument, you are now saying we will be pushed out in 2019.?

Are you sure you don't work for the EU in some capacity... I recognise the 'logic' in your thinking, from when I worked for them in the late 90's to the early 00's!
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So you expect countries to activate article 50 and then leave at their own leisure? Any EU country is free to activate article 50. Any country is free to check out at any time during the 2 year period but you have to admit that this situation must end at one point. The British cant complain about it considering that article 50 is their design

And I assure you I never worked in the EU neither directly nor indirectly. I never even entered an EU premises in the first place
 
Paul the Wolf said:
they have to leave by the end of March 2019
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Hi Paul thought you'd show up sooner or later!
The phrase pushed out was used by others I was just responding to it!

Paul the Wolf said:
why do keep repeating that you worked for the EU
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I mentioned my former EU employment because of something I notice in some other posters logic, which reminded me of how the organisation of the EU was formulated and I was asking him whether he had worked for them? Before you ask, he hadn't, not ever!

Paul the Wolf said:
I'm frightened to ask in what capacity.
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If you frightened to ask then perhaps not best to pursue that question?
However what I can tell you is it involved Project Management working on two very big projects and one medium and two smaller ones across five countries, over a 3/4 year period involving Britain, France, Germany, Italy and Holland (actually got to work for a short time in the Maastricht building where the treaty was signed, apparently its now the Town Hall).
It was sometime ago so I fully accept things may well have changed, but not that much, which of course is one of the problems!
 
devilish said:
So you expect countries to activate article 50 and then leave at their own leisure
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As I recall it was the EU leaders who insisted we invoke Article 50, otherwise their lips were sealed and they wouldn't talk to us about anything!

Personally I would have left immediately, but our politicians kept things going hoping the country might change its mind on the Brexit vote, but it didn't, all the polls showed if anything things were hardening, even remainers' (some of them) were saying OK lets get on with it, only the remoaners tried to delay (and still do) the idea whose time has come (hopefully).

Actually there is a slight worry that the 'checkout but can't leave' scenario could materialise which would induce various forms of paralysis not only in Britain but also for large swathes of industry and commerce across Europe, the state of political and hence economic uncertainty remaining, nothing settled, in some ways its just as worrying as the 'cliff edge' scenario.

At the moment it seems to be the 'check out but not leave' at one end and 'cliff edge' at the other.
 
Blackwidow said:
Where the most foreigners live:
DKj4r8OW4AA81M-.jpg


Where the AFD got the most votes:

DKj4r8OWkAAJHXp.jpg
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It has been like that ever since the unification: The most aggression against foreigners exists where they are the smallest minority, i.e. the weakest victim. (That logic is much older, of course.) This and the links from post #329 are some good tools for mythbusting.
 
It seems the Brexit trend of the less foreigners you have living around you, the likelier you are to be afraid of or be resentful of immigration is present in Germany. Hardly surprising given it is so much easier to scare people who do not come into contact with 'aliens' on a day-to-day basis.
 
Probably just the fact that rural areas tend to be more right-wing with fewer immigrants and the AfD are very, very right-wing.
 
I Believe said:
As I recall it was the EU leaders who insisted we invoke Article 50, otherwise their lips were sealed and they wouldn't talk to us about anything!

Personally I would have left immediately, but our politicians kept things going hoping the country might change its mind on the Brexit vote, but it didn't, all the polls showed if anything things were hardening, even remainers' (some of them) were saying OK lets get on with it, only the remoaners tried to delay (and still do) the idea whose time has come (hopefully).

Actually there is a slight worry that the 'checkout but can't leave' scenario could materialise which would induce various forms of paralysis not only in Britain but also for large swathes of industry and commerce across Europe, the state of political and hence economic uncertainty remaining, nothing settled, in some ways its just as worrying as the 'cliff edge' scenario.

At the moment it seems to be the 'check out but not leave' at one end and 'cliff edge' at the other.
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Brexit occurred the day when the UK activated article 50. The EU has no legal right to push anyone to activate article 50 but it certainly cant be expected to discuss something that didn't occur yet.

The UK exports more then 50% of its stuff to the EU. Crashing out of the EU immediately would be madness, as the UK has yet to sign any trade deal and has yet to renegotiate its way back to the WTO. No wonder why the Tory party is desperate for a transitional deal.

Whatever direction the UK choose will be chosen by the people in Westminster not Brussels. Sure the latter will make sure to safeguard Europe's interest, however the UK is free to pack it stuff and leave it wants to at any time.
 
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