Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?


  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
The thing here is...a lot of countries won't notice.
The EU can easily pay for it's project without any impact on the average citizen, most countries don't export enough to the UK for it to have any economic impact. Why would you think anyone in, for example, Finland or Estonia would give a flying feck? The UK though....different kind of animal. I mean, outright refusing to pay for anything after 2020 would also kill quite a lot of EU projects in GB, it would definetively experience the economic impact as, as I have just pointed out, the EU is just a far bigger tradepartner for the UK than vice versa and last but not least, slowly the people will realize that India or anyone else might not be as happy about having some sort of free trade agreement with them as they thought they would be.

So I wonder, who will blame whom here and who will question which politicians?


So why the insistence on money first, anything else after the cheque ?
 
So why the insistence on money first, anything else after the cheque ?

Because the UK has signed those agreements. Why would you give it up? Why should the EU just accept to pay for the pension of British EU employees for all of eternity?

Seriously, how would you think that's unreasonable? Like, you would have bought a car on a loan. And then suddenly you would take the car but wouldn't pay the loan anymore because "eh, the bank doesn't really NEED my money do they". No, you have agreed on it. It's a legal principle. Actually hinting the EU would be willing to talk about some of the payments is a HUGE concession.
 
Not sure wanting control of immigration when we have a housing crisis that is increasing every year is xenophobia.
Biggest contributor in the housing crisis is not immigration though is it. Its the commoditisation of real estate.
 
Brexiteers is a broad bunch not all at looking for a different kind of global control, a lot just want control of immigration and to get on the housing ladder or their kids do.

The problem is the UK did have and have got control of immigration, unfortunately it had Theresa May as Home Secretary.

I would be interested to hear how leaving the EU will help people get on the housing ladder.
 
Because the UK has signed those agreements. Why would you give it up? Why should the EU just accept to pay for the pension of British EU employees for all of eternity?

Seriously, how would you think that's unreasonable? Like, you would have bought a car on a loan. And then suddenly you would take the car but wouldn't pay the loan anymore because "eh, the bank doesn't really NEED my money do they". No, you have agreed on it. It's a legal principle. Actually hinting the EU would be willing to talk about some of the payments is a HUGE concession.


I spent almost 12 years working for DHL, also known as Deutsche Post to any non-Germans reading.

When I left, I paid them what I owed in expense advances, private expenses on the Amex Card, and ' holidays ' I'd taken in advance as I left half way through the year.

They paid me my salary up to the date of leaving and have paid me a nice pension the past couple of years.

What they didn't ask for, and up to now haven't asked for, is a contribution from me towards the other 250,000 pensions thay currently pay to German employees and will pay in the future.

Same as - when I left my last gold club to join another one, there was no demand to contribute to the old club's employees pensions for the next 30 years.

Seems the EU has a different philosophy about their own financial responsibilities than the rest of the world - but that's no surprise.
 
I spent almost 12 years working for DHL, also known as Deutsche Post to any non-Germans reading.

When I left, I paid them what I owed in expense advances, private expenses on the Amex Card, and ' holidays ' I'd taken in advance as I left half way through the year.

They paid me my salary up to the date of leaving and have paid me a nice pension the past couple of years.

What they didn't ask for, and up to now haven't asked for, is a contribution from me towards the other 250,000 pensions thay currently pay to German employees and will pay in the future.

Same as - when I left my last gold club to join another one, there was no demand to contribute to the old club's employees pensions for the next 30 years.

Seems the EU has a different philosophy about their own financial responsibilities than the rest of the world - but that's no surprise.

What an amazingly false equivalency. Or, well, it isn't that bad (but not good either) but you don't seem to understand it yourself. The bold part is irrelevant, but I will explain that later. Because in your equivalency, the UK is you. And the Amex Card, the holidays and everything else is pensions, projects and everything else the UK has agreed to. The UK agreed to contribute to pensions, as their membership also contributed quite a lot to said expenses with their MEP's etc. The UK agreed to pay for projects in advance, projects which are ongoing. They aren't being asked to pay for something that might come up in the future. They are asked to pay their bills, they ones which are existing right now, plain and simple. It's quite amazing how you are unwilling to see that. What you, in your equivalency, would want the UK to be doing is taking your company car with you as well and just laughing your ass off at any suggestion to pay off your Amex expenses.

Everyone on the EU agreed to pay into the Pension fund. You can't just leave and pretend the obligations you had up until the point you are leaving are null and void. That's how EVERYONE thinks about financial obligations, not just the EU. You know why DHL asked you to pay for future employees pensions? Because you already had. Well, indirectly anyway by working for the company and contributing to it's growth. There's functional differences between companies pension funds and state ones, which is a tad problematic in this equivalency. I'm actually rather shocked you are not aware of stuff like this.

I also doubt anyone outside Germany would know "Deutsche Post" as they are using DHL exclusively internationally...
 
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Soon enough it will learn its place in the world and is far less prestigious than Brexiteers think

I've got news for you, most brexiteers do know Britain's place in the world and its nothing to do with 'Prestigious thinking', that's what we fool foreigners with. Yes, we do 'pomp and circumstance' very well, but that's all it is now a legacy of the past, but one that still brings millions of people and billions of dollars/euros and pounds into Britain and this will continue.

Britain has always been a trading nation, maybe its the island mentality and at times admittedly we have been skating on the edges. Some of our most famous traders e.g. Francis Drake was also (and as far as the Spanish were concerned) a Privateer/Buccaneer, possible even a Pirate. Our history is littered with massive successes and quite a few spectacular failures. We have to now return to that indomitable spirit, of course we cannot send gun boats into foreign ports anymore, demanding trade, but we have innate capabilities that have been dormant for years and we need those to the fore now.

Its true, certainly in the short term, if the EU 'cuts up rough', that Brexit might turn out to be another glorious failure, but equally it could (even Mark Carney agreed, at last) turn into a massive success. If I was a youngster now with my life in front of me I would be full of excitement, at the opportunities Brexit will bring, I would, for example, be looking to master Mandarin Chinese, or Korean, or other Asian languages, seeking to find what I'm good at and make a start on a career, even if that means starting off flipping burgers at McDonalds (they are a global player are they not), look, listen and learn, much better rather than racking up debt at some third rate University taking 'mickey mouse' degrees, that wouldn't even get you through the door of Disney World!

We need the freedom of being outside the monolithic EU, the EU has done nothing for young people under 25, just look at the levels of unemployment in many southern countries in particular, we should and will chase the pound/dollar/euro (even)! At home build more houses, as Theresa has said, that people can afford, sort out profligate employers, sort out the carpet-baggers, get the infrastructure development moving up a gear, improve on what we've got, design and build new what we haven't. Invest heavily in people (not the mickey mouse stuff) good quality training for where there are shortages, especially if all the EU citizens who are doing such jobs, as we are regularly told, will head for the hills. Abroad, we need to seek out those who want to trade, make sure we can satisfy their needs, if we can't, then don't waste their time or ours, pretending that we can. Get our best and brightest sales people 'front and centre', invest in their skills and attributes, give them better rewards than just shifting money around (although we will still do that as well)

Of course Jeremy is promising a lot of this as well, but he sees the 'dead-hand' of the state, spending money, but not earning it, although we hear from some on these posts that he won't make the mistakes of his Socialist forefathers in the kind of nationalisation he brings in...no doubt he will want to make his own! But I don't really want to knock Jeremy, he believes in his rubbish and he is up front about that, the fact he is an Arsenal supporter tells you everything you need to know!

The point is fundamentally brexiteers believe Britain is capable, yes, maybe we won't sit at the top table anymore, but then we won't have to send our young men and women to die in wars someone else got us into because we are a 'prestigious country', we won't have to pay large sums to keep others going, whose economies are almost basket-cases now but they won't do anything about it, because we will help, because we are not now a 'prestigious country'.

The sooner we are out the better.
 
I've got news for you, most brexiteers do know Britain's place in the world and its nothing to do with 'Prestigious thinking', that's what we fool foreigners with. Yes, we do 'pomp and circumstance' very well, but that's all it is now a legacy of the past, but one that still brings millions of people and billions of dollars/euros and pounds into Britain and this will continue.

Britain has always been a trading nation, maybe its the island mentality and at times admittedly we have been skating on the edges. Some of our most famous traders e.g. Francis Drake was also (and as far as the Spanish were concerned) a Privateer/Buccaneer, possible even a Pirate. Our history is littered with massive successes and quite a few spectacular failures. We have to now return to that indomitable spirit, of course we cannot send gun boats into foreign ports anymore, demanding trade, but we have innate capabilities that have been dormant for years and we need those to the fore now.

Its true, certainly in the short term, if the EU 'cuts up rough', that Brexit might turn out to be another glorious failure, but equally it could (even Mark Carney agreed, at last) turn into a massive success. If I was a youngster now with my life in front of me I would be full of excitement, at the opportunities Brexit will bring, I would, for example, be looking to master Mandarin Chinese, or Korean, or other Asian languages, seeking to find what I'm good at and make a start on a career, even if that means starting off flipping burgers at McDonalds (they are a global player are they not), look, listen and learn, much better rather than racking up debt at some third rate University taking 'mickey mouse' degrees, that wouldn't even get you through the door of Disney World!

We need the freedom of being outside the monolithic EU, the EU has done nothing for young people under 25, just look at the levels of unemployment in many southern countries in particular, we should and will chase the pound/dollar/euro (even)! At home build more houses, as Theresa has said, that people can afford, sort out profligate employers, sort out the carpet-baggers, get the infrastructure development moving up a gear, improve on what we've got, design and build new what we haven't. Invest heavily in people (not the mickey mouse stuff) good quality training for where there are shortages, especially if all the EU citizens who are doing such jobs, as we are regularly told, will head for the hills. Abroad, we need to seek out those who want to trade, make sure we can satisfy their needs, if we can't, then don't waste their time or ours, pretending that we can. Get our best and brightest sales people 'front and centre', invest in their skills and attributes, give them better rewards than just shifting money around (although we will still do that as well)

Of course Jeremy is promising a lot of this as well, but he sees the 'dead-hand' of the state, spending money, but not earning it, although we hear from some on these posts that he won't make the mistakes of his Socialist forefathers in the kind of nationalisation he brings in...no doubt he will want to make his own! But I don't really want to knock Jeremy, he believes in his rubbish and he is up front about that, the fact he is an Arsenal supporter tells you everything you need to know!

The point is fundamentally brexiteers believe Britain is capable, yes, maybe we won't sit at the top table anymore, but then we won't have to send our young men and women to die in wars someone else got us into because we are a 'prestigious country', we won't have to pay large sums to keep others going, whose economies are almost basket-cases now but they won't do anything about it, because we will help, because we are not now a 'prestigious country'.

The sooner we are out the better.

Yeah, my gouvernment possibly taking the opportunity from me to study, live and work everywhere in Europe would leave me briming with excitement. Man, your age really shows...
 
I've got news for you, most brexiteers do know Britain's place in the world and its nothing to do with 'Prestigious thinking', that's what we fool foreigners with. Yes, we do 'pomp and circumstance' very well, but that's all it is now a legacy of the past, but one that still brings millions of people and billions of dollars/euros and pounds into Britain and this will continue.

Britain has always been a trading nation, maybe its the island mentality and at times admittedly we have been skating on the edges. Some of our most famous traders e.g. Francis Drake was also (and as far as the Spanish were concerned) a Privateer/Buccaneer, possible even a Pirate. Our history is littered with massive successes and quite a few spectacular failures. We have to now return to that indomitable spirit, of course we cannot send gun boats into foreign ports anymore, demanding trade, but we have innate capabilities that have been dormant for years and we need those to the fore now.

Its true, certainly in the short term, if the EU 'cuts up rough', that Brexit might turn out to be another glorious failure, but equally it could (even Mark Carney agreed, at last) turn into a massive success. If I was a youngster now with my life in front of me I would be full of excitement, at the opportunities Brexit will bring, I would, for example, be looking to master Mandarin Chinese, or Korean, or other Asian languages, seeking to find what I'm good at and make a start on a career, even if that means starting off flipping burgers at McDonalds (they are a global player are they not), look, listen and learn, much better rather than racking up debt at some third rate University taking 'mickey mouse' degrees, that wouldn't even get you through the door of Disney World!

We need the freedom of being outside the monolithic EU, the EU has done nothing for young people under 25, just look at the levels of unemployment in many southern countries in particular, we should and will chase the pound/dollar/euro (even)! At home build more houses, as Theresa has said, that people can afford, sort out profligate employers, sort out the carpet-baggers, get the infrastructure development moving up a gear, improve on what we've got, design and build new what we haven't. Invest heavily in people (not the mickey mouse stuff) good quality training for where there are shortages, especially if all the EU citizens who are doing such jobs, as we are regularly told, will head for the hills. Abroad, we need to seek out those who want to trade, make sure we can satisfy their needs, if we can't, then don't waste their time or ours, pretending that we can. Get our best and brightest sales people 'front and centre', invest in their skills and attributes, give them better rewards than just shifting money around (although we will still do that as well)

Of course Jeremy is promising a lot of this as well, but he sees the 'dead-hand' of the state, spending money, but not earning it, although we hear from some on these posts that he won't make the mistakes of his Socialist forefathers in the kind of nationalisation he brings in...no doubt he will want to make his own! But I don't really want to knock Jeremy, he believes in his rubbish and he is up front about that, the fact he is an Arsenal supporter tells you everything you need to know!

The point is fundamentally brexiteers believe Britain is capable, yes, maybe we won't sit at the top table anymore, but then we won't have to send our young men and women to die in wars someone else got us into because we are a 'prestigious country', we won't have to pay large sums to keep others going, whose economies are almost basket-cases now but they won't do anything about it, because we will help, because we are not now a 'prestigious country'.

The sooner we are out the better.

So what is stopping you doing any of this now, makes no sense - all you're doing is depriving British people of having a choice - well done
 
What an amazingly false equivalency. Or, well, it isn't that bad (but not good either) but you don't seem to understand it yourself. The bold part is irrelevant, but I will explain that later. Because in your equivalency, the UK is you. And the Amex Card, the holidays and everything else is pensions, projects and everything else the UK has agreed to. The UK agreed to contribute to pensions, as their membership also contributed quite a lot to said expenses with their MEP's etc. The UK agreed to pay for projects in advance, projects which are ongoing. They aren't being asked to pay for something that might come up in the future. They are asked to pay their bills, they ones which are existing right now, plain and simple. It's quite amazing how you are unwilling to see that. What you, in your equivalency, would want the UK to be doing is taking your company car with you as well and just laughing your ass off at any suggestion to pay off your Amex expenses.

Everyone on the EU agreed to pay into the Pension fund. You can't just leave and pretend the obligations you had up until the point you are leaving are null and void. That's how EVERYONE thinks about financial obligations, not just the EU. You know why DHL asked you to pay for future employees pensions? Because you already had. Well, indirectly anyway by working for the company and contributing to it's growth. There's functional differences between companies pension funds and state ones, which is a tad problematic in this equivalency. I'm actually rather shocked you are not aware of stuff like this.

I also doubt anyone outside Germany would know "Deutsche Post" as they are using DHL exclusively internationally...


Not quite....

I paid them what I owed them up to date I left, they paid me what they owed me up to the date I left.

What I had to pay them and what they had to pay me were contractually agreed. We both respected the contract.

I'm sure the UK will pay what is contractually agreed - but are still waiting for the bill. You'd think with 10,000+ Admin Employees that the EU would have someone who could work it out. More likely, the EU have no idea what the post-BREXIT costs are to be picked up by the UK, so are just playing poker.

You know why DHL asked you to pay ( presumably you mean didn't, here ) for future employees pensions? Because you already had. Well, indirectly anyway by working for the company and contributing to it's growth.

I think you've just made my point for me - Thanks.

By the way - no company car, and it was difficult to run off with a 757.
 
So what is stopping you doing any of this now, makes no sense - all you're doing is depriving British people of having a choice - well done

Quite. It is about as relevant as citing Eurozone youth unemployment when the UK had practically full employment. If the EU is holding the UK back from its great trading nation destiny, why was business overwhelmingly in favour of Remain?
 
Yeah, my gouvernment possibly taking the opportunity from me to study, live and work everywhere in Europe would leave me briming with excitement. Man, your age really shows...

We may not be trading with the EU, (chances are we will) but you can still hop across the channel or take the tunnel, the borders may be still there but they won't be closed you still will be able to cross them, study, work, holiday (if Ryan Air is saved for the nation), but your attention will have shifted to the rest of the world, it makes a better oyster than just the EU alone.

Yes, when I said if I were younger, that's a dead give away isn't it, smart lad?
 
So what is stopping you doing any of this now, makes no sense - all you're doing is depriving British people of having a choice - well done

What are they being deprived of? Paying an exorbitant fee for something they will still get for free post Brexit.

The EU prevents independent trade deals I would have thought you knew that already Paul, seems you re not keeping up!
 
What are they being deprived of? Paying an exorbitant fee for something they will still get for free post Brexit.

The EU prevents independent trade deals I would have thought you knew that already Paul, seems you re not keeping up!

You keep referring to the exorbitant fee. You've already lost the exorbitant fee due to the devaluation of the pound and all the other negative issues since the referendum . That's before the UK leaves. How does the EU prevent independent trade deals? The only thing I can think you are referring to is if you think the Uk will get a better deal than the EU can for you. Presume you do realise that the UK does trade with countries outside the EU now.

Deprived of living, working and studying anywhere in the EU unless you plan on continuing FOM

PS What are you getting for free - glad you've already had the negotiations and won't be paying any tariffs
 
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why was business overwhelmingly in favour of Remain?

Yes, that was a mystery to me too, are you absolutely sure and it was not those whose majority trading is with the EU and they maybe are starting to worry their goods or services are in danger of them becoming so inferior outside the EU, that their customers will turn elsewhere?
I suppose customers can be fickle, just because you leave the EU they don't want your wares!
 
Yes, that was a mystery to me too, are you absolutely sure and it was not those whose majority trading is with the EU and they maybe are starting to worry their goods or services are in danger of them becoming so inferior outside the EU, that their customers will turn elsewhere?
I suppose customers can be fickle, just because you leave the EU they don't want your wares!

Protectionism may be part of it but when you are based in a wealthy, high cost country, that's not necessarily a bad thing. Genuine free trade with lower cost countries sounds like a recipe for wiping out manufacturing.
 
What are they being deprived of? Paying an exorbitant fee for something they will still get for free post Brexit.

The EU fee is less than 0.5% of our GDP.

And it won't be free post brexit either..

On WTO tariffs alone, we will pay more, a lot more. WTO tariff for the majority of fresh food is 35%. We import 40% of our daily food intake, most from the EU, around £40 billion a year.. The cost of those tariffs alone would be 14 billion, which is, I am sure you are aware, more than we pay in EU fees.

Free? Bullshit.
 
Yes, that was a mystery to me too, are you absolutely sure and it was not those whose majority trading is with the EU and they maybe are starting to worry their goods or services are in danger of them becoming so inferior outside the EU, that their customers will turn elsewhere?
I suppose customers can be fickle, just because you leave the EU they don't want your wares!

So, supply chains aren set for year to come, the EU is way close than any other market and breaking into a market you aren't established in yet is hard and expensive.

Not quite....

I paid them what I owed them up to date I left, they paid me what they owed me up to the date I left.

What I had to pay them and what they had to pay me were contractually agreed. We both respected the contract.

I'm sure the UK will pay what is contractually agreed - but are still waiting for the bill. You'd think with 10,000+ Admin Employees that the EU would have someone who could work it out. More likely, the EU have no idea what the post-BREXIT costs are to be picked up by the UK, so are just playing poker.

You know why DHL asked you to pay ( presumably you mean didn't, here ) for future employees pensions? Because you already had. Well, indirectly anyway by working for the company and contributing to it's growth.

I think you've just made my point for me - Thanks.

By the way - no company car, and it was difficult to run off with a 757.

I meant that, and no I didn't make your point here. Because you fail to understand there's a fundamental difference between working for a company and being part of an international agreement, that's why I said your equivalency is flawed from the beginning. Your work for the company was agreed upon and helped the company going forwards (hopefully anyway) so it was able to pay future bills. So that's where you kinda can make a connection, but it doesn't really fit. You paid with your work so to say until an agreed point, then you left. The EU agreed to "work" with the EU on certain matters and haven't yet fullfilled those obligations.

The UK isn't an employee of the EU though, it's more of a business partner. If you are agreeing to work with another company, you are making a contract and you are agreeing on certain terms and usually a date or goal for until this cooperation will last. Let's take, for example, Opel and GM. They recently splitted, but GM is still honoring agreements that were made priorly, like for example, the provision of engines and gearboxes etc. for cars which entered production before the two companies split up. If they wouldn't, they would be taken to court (and lose). This is exactly what the EU is expecting the UK to do. These Admin employees the EU is expecting the UK to contribute to their pensions too aren't "EU admin employees". Well they are, but they are everyones employees in the EU and thus, also the UK's employees up until the very day they leave. fecking pay for them. It's like you buying a holiday home with some friends, you all agreeing to pay the loan for it until it's done, and then leaving the agreement halfway saying "nah can't be bothered anymore, won't pay". I guess they would be pretty pissed.
 
I never realised that life under the cruel jackboot of the EU was so different in the UK than it is here in Ireland.

I mean here you don't need Brexit to go for the "master Mandarin Chinese, or Korean, or other Asian languages, seeking to find what I'm good at and make a start on a career, even if that means starting off flipping burgers at McDonalds (they are a global player are they not), look, listen and learn, much better rather than racking up debt at some third rate University taking 'mickey mouse' degrees, that wouldn't even get you through the door of Disney World!" option.

You can do all that here already, while also having the option to take advantage of the increased job prospects that being in the EU provides.

We must be on some sort of premium card loyalty membership or something. Here was me thinking Brexit was very obviously terrible news for the younger generation who overwhelmingly didn't want it.
 
Really.. you're having a laugh aren't you?

It's part, yes, but not all. Our financial services industry (as in our biggrst revenue generator) doesn't need protectionism but it does want passporting rights.

Out of interest, let's move beyond "great trading nation" British Empire fantasy rhetoric - what are we going to trade exactly? What world beating industries are toiling under the Brussels deadweight just waiting to conquer America, China and India?
 
We may not be trading with the EU, (chances are we will) but you can still hop across the channel or take the tunnel, the borders may be still there but they won't be closed you still will be able to cross them, study, work, holiday (if Ryan Air is saved for the nation), but your attention will have shifted to the rest of the world, it makes a better oyster than just the EU alone.

Yes, when I said if I were younger, that's a dead give away isn't it, smart lad?

Nah, you gave away you are a bitter old pensioneer weeks ago quite openly in this thread. And yes, they can still travel there. But working and studying will just become harder, that's how it is. This isn't "shifting attention to the rest of the world". This is you saying "It's not that bad, at least now it's equally difficult everywhere!"
 
It's part, yes, but not all. Our financial services industry (as in our biggrst revenue generator) doesn't need protectionism but it does want passporting rights.

Out of interest, let's move beyond "great trading nation" British Empire fantasy rhetoric - what are we going to trade exactly? What world beating industries are toiling under the Brussels deadweight just waiting to conquer America, China and India?

The car industry! Oh, wait. The UK doesn't have any indeginous producers left anymore do they, they are just the EU base for Indian, Korean and Japanese countries who might as well cut their investment when they lose that benefit...
 
I've got news for you, most brexiteers do know Britain's place in the world and its nothing to do with 'Prestigious thinking', that's what we fool foreigners with. Yes, we do 'pomp and circumstance' very well, but that's all it is now a legacy of the past, but one that still brings millions of people and billions of dollars/euros and pounds into Britain and this will continue.

Britain has always been a trading nation, maybe its the island mentality and at times admittedly we have been skating on the edges. Some of our most famous traders e.g. Francis Drake was also (and as far as the Spanish were concerned) a Privateer/Buccaneer, possible even a Pirate. Our history is littered with massive successes and quite a few spectacular failures. We have to now return to that indomitable spirit, of course we cannot send gun boats into foreign ports anymore, demanding trade, but we have innate capabilities that have been dormant for years and we need those to the fore now.

Its true, certainly in the short term, if the EU 'cuts up rough', that Brexit might turn out to be another glorious failure, but equally it could (even Mark Carney agreed, at last) turn into a massive success. If I was a youngster now with my life in front of me I would be full of excitement, at the opportunities Brexit will bring, I would, for example, be looking to master Mandarin Chinese, or Korean, or other Asian languages, seeking to find what I'm good at and make a start on a career, even if that means starting off flipping burgers at McDonalds (they are a global player are they not), look, listen and learn, much better rather than racking up debt at some third rate University taking 'mickey mouse' degrees, that wouldn't even get you through the door of Disney World!

We need the freedom of being outside the monolithic EU, the EU has done nothing for young people under 25, just look at the levels of unemployment in many southern countries in particular, we should and will chase the pound/dollar/euro (even)! At home build more houses, as Theresa has said, that people can afford, sort out profligate employers, sort out the carpet-baggers, get the infrastructure development moving up a gear, improve on what we've got, design and build new what we haven't. Invest heavily in people (not the mickey mouse stuff) good quality training for where there are shortages, especially if all the EU citizens who are doing such jobs, as we are regularly told, will head for the hills. Abroad, we need to seek out those who want to trade, make sure we can satisfy their needs, if we can't, then don't waste their time or ours, pretending that we can. Get our best and brightest sales people 'front and centre', invest in their skills and attributes, give them better rewards than just shifting money around (although we will still do that as well)

Of course Jeremy is promising a lot of this as well, but he sees the 'dead-hand' of the state, spending money, but not earning it, although we hear from some on these posts that he won't make the mistakes of his Socialist forefathers in the kind of nationalisation he brings in...no doubt he will want to make his own! But I don't really want to knock Jeremy, he believes in his rubbish and he is up front about that, the fact he is an Arsenal supporter tells you everything you need to know!

The point is fundamentally brexiteers believe Britain is capable, yes, maybe we won't sit at the top table anymore, but then we won't have to send our young men and women to die in wars someone else got us into because we are a 'prestigious country', we won't have to pay large sums to keep others going, whose economies are almost basket-cases now but they won't do anything about it, because we will help, because we are not now a 'prestigious country'.

The sooner we are out the better.

:lol:

"I've lived most of my life and have nothing to lose by the UK leaving the EU, young people should be glad to have a career of flipping burgers at McDonald's, ungrateful remoaners!"

Sorry but how out of touch with reality are you? I just had to laugh at that. There's not much a person can learn about career progression in a job that most definitely is a job and not a career. I agree there are plenty of pointless degrees out there and work experience is, in my opinion, more valuable than a fresh graduate's newly printed first certificate (even in the more important degrees) but leaving the EU is only going to damage young people's career chances, not enhance them. The door to 26 other countries filled with opportunity slams shut for them in the wake of Brexit and the loss of freedom of movement. But of course why should that matter to you? It's not for you to worry about that any more, you aren't at the start of your career.

There are plenty of remain people who believe Britain is capable of making a success of itself in the 21st century, both in and out of the EU but the bottom line is any success in the EU would be stronger than outside of it.

You talk about Britain not being a 'prestigious country', I find it baffling. The immigrants that most Brexiters seem to despise would not be coming here if Britain weren't a prestigious country.
 
:lol:

"I've lived most of my life and have nothing to lose by the UK leaving the EU, young people should be glad to have a career of flipping burgers at McDonald's, ungrateful remoaners!"

Sorry but how out of touch with reality are you? I just had to laugh at that. There's not much a person can learn about career progression in a job that most definitely is a job and not a career. I agree there are plenty of pointless degrees out there and work experience is, in my opinion, more valuable than a fresh graduate's newly printed first certificate (even in the more important degrees) but leaving the EU is only going to damage young people's career chances, not enhance them. The door to 26 other countries filled with opportunity slams shut for them in the wake of Brexit and the loss of freedom of movement. But of course why should that matter to you? It's not for you to worry about that any more, you aren't at the start of your career.

There are plenty of remain people who believe Britain is capable of making a success of itself in the 21st century, both in and out of the EU but the bottom line is any success in the EU would be stronger than outside of it.

You talk about Britain not being a 'prestigious country', I find it baffling. The immigrants that most Brexiters seem to despise would not be coming here if Britain weren't a prestigious country.

He finished it already, he's a pensioneer. Wanna know the funny part? Part of it is paid by the EU, as he was working for the EU in Belgium...
 
I've got news for you, most brexiteers do know Britain's place in the world and its nothing to do with 'Prestigious thinking', that's what we fool foreigners with. Yes, we do 'pomp and circumstance' very well, but that's all it is now a legacy of the past, but one that still brings millions of people and billions of dollars/euros and pounds into Britain and this will continue.

Britain has always been a trading nation, maybe its the island mentality and at times admittedly we have been skating on the edges. Some of our most famous traders e.g. Francis Drake was also (and as far as the Spanish were concerned) a Privateer/Buccaneer, possible even a Pirate. Our history is littered with massive successes and quite a few spectacular failures. We have to now return to that indomitable spirit, of course we cannot send gun boats into foreign ports anymore, demanding trade, but we have innate capabilities that have been dormant for years and we need those to the fore now.

Its true, certainly in the short term, if the EU 'cuts up rough', that Brexit might turn out to be another glorious failure, but equally it could (even Mark Carney agreed, at last) turn into a massive success. If I was a youngster now with my life in front of me I would be full of excitement, at the opportunities Brexit will bring, I would, for example, be looking to master Mandarin Chinese, or Korean, or other Asian languages, seeking to find what I'm good at and make a start on a career, even if that means starting off flipping burgers at McDonalds (they are a global player are they not), look, listen and learn, much better rather than racking up debt at some third rate University taking 'mickey mouse' degrees, that wouldn't even get you through the door of Disney World!

We need the freedom of being outside the monolithic EU, the EU has done nothing for young people under 25, just look at the levels of unemployment in many southern countries in particular, we should and will chase the pound/dollar/euro (even)! At home build more houses, as Theresa has said, that people can afford, sort out profligate employers, sort out the carpet-baggers, get the infrastructure development moving up a gear, improve on what we've got, design and build new what we haven't. Invest heavily in people (not the mickey mouse stuff) good quality training for where there are shortages, especially if all the EU citizens who are doing such jobs, as we are regularly told, will head for the hills. Abroad, we need to seek out those who want to trade, make sure we can satisfy their needs, if we can't, then don't waste their time or ours, pretending that we can. Get our best and brightest sales people 'front and centre', invest in their skills and attributes, give them better rewards than just shifting money around (although we will still do that as well)

Of course Jeremy is promising a lot of this as well, but he sees the 'dead-hand' of the state, spending money, but not earning it, although we hear from some on these posts that he won't make the mistakes of his Socialist forefathers in the kind of nationalisation he brings in...no doubt he will want to make his own! But I don't really want to knock Jeremy, he believes in his rubbish and he is up front about that, the fact he is an Arsenal supporter tells you everything you need to know!

The point is fundamentally brexiteers believe Britain is capable, yes, maybe we won't sit at the top table anymore, but then we won't have to send our young men and women to die in wars someone else got us into because we are a 'prestigious country', we won't have to pay large sums to keep others going, whose economies are almost basket-cases now but they won't do anything about it, because we will help, because we are not now a 'prestigious country'.

The sooner we are out the better.

Yeah, the Tories bending over to the US will REALLY help with that I guess.
 
:lol:

"I've lived most of my life and have nothing to lose by the UK leaving the EU, young people should be glad to have a career of flipping burgers at McDonald's, ungrateful remoaners!"

Sorry but how out of touch with reality are you? I just had to laugh at that. There's not much a person can learn about career progression in a job that most definitely is a job and not a career. I agree there are plenty of pointless degrees out there and work experience is, in my opinion, more valuable than a fresh graduate's newly printed first certificate (even in the more important degrees) but leaving the EU is only going to damage young people's career chances, not enhance them. The door to 26 other countries filled with opportunity slams shut for them in the wake of Brexit and the loss of freedom of movement. But of course why should that matter to you? It's not for you to worry about that any more, you aren't at the start of your career.

There are plenty of remain people who believe Britain is capable of making a success of itself in the 21st century, both in and out of the EU but the bottom line is any success in the EU would be stronger than outside of it.

You talk about Britain not being a 'prestigious country', I find it baffling. The immigrants that most Brexiters seem to despise would not be coming here if Britain weren't a prestigious country.
I work with loads of non eu passport holders, why will the door be shut for British but not them? Its a non issue.
 
Quite. It is about as relevant as citing Eurozone youth unemployment when the UK had practically full employment. If the EU is holding the UK back from its great trading nation destiny, why was business overwhelmingly in favour of Remain?

By business, I think you mean the City Institutions rather than SMEs that were behind Remain.
 
Yeah, the Tories bending over to the US will REALLY help with that I guess.

I would like the UK to set up a new trading group........

Free Trade
Every country can protect a product yet they cannot sell it overseas just for the home market - prevents dumping.
No country can block another country joining on just self interest (Spain and Catalonia, for example)

What do you think punters?