Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
I Believe said:
Because they are remoaners, you just said "they have a right to moan", hence they are called 'remoaners', its not rocket science Paul!



First of all I didn't say they didn't have the right to moan, its just that it becomes repetitive and pointless, when the losing side keep moaning and the referendum has been held and the result known.

If, as you say the brexiteers, should have accepted the results of the first referendum, they probably would have if it had been about creating a super state, but it was about joining a common market.



Thank you for clearing that up!



Control of our own borders; Make our own laws; dispense our own justice; make our own trade deals; save around £8-10B in subs! (you should know these by now Paul)



No one in public life should have to be subject to personal abuse and their families suffer threats, no matter how much you disagree with their ideals, that is a slippery slope, as I am sure you are old enough to realise Paul. Disagree by all means, as I said I don't agree with everything Nigel says, but he has been a catalyst for millions to have their views listened to and that's what I suspect you and the other 'remainers/remoaners'
cannot forgive.



That may well be true! However I suspect it won't be, unless the UK is not so called independent, but is actually independent!
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To me, that's all jingoistic claptrap designed to pander to the masses. Some may genuinely fear an EU superstate, but no UK government or party has ever supported that and we have veto anyway.

It's purely a smokescreen. It was vote against immigration. Although we could already control non-EU inflows, people feared hordes of refugees would swarm over through the EU, at a time of heightened Islamophobia.

I'm a business journalist and my wife works in financial services. We can both plainly see the damage Brexit will do to the economy. Jobs are already going, investment has been held back too.

Can you tell me one economic positive of Brexit? I'm intrigued.

Also, who is going to fill all of the unskilled jobs that are largely done by Eastern Europeans? The services industry, our biggest, will die on its arse.
 
Jippy said:
To me, that's all jingoistic claptrap designed to pander to the masses.
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Yes, we 'intellectual types' can't be seen to pander to the masses, can we, they keep coal in the bath don't you know.. good heavens what next!

Jippy said:
Some may genuinely fear an EU superstate
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Don't fear it... just don't want to live in it!

Jippy said:
but no UK government or party has ever supported that
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No, they've always known best..and no party has ever asked the people of Britain if they want that or not, except Cameron, but now they know!

Jippy said:
I'm a business journalist and my wife works in financial services
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So, you feel as if you have a lot to lose?

Jippy said:
Can you tell me one economic positive of Brexit?
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Saving on EU subs!

Jippy said:
Also, who is going to fill all of the unskilled jobs that are largely done by Eastern Europeans?
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Eastern Europeans! However we will control the 'flows' of such workers, if we wish, we could let even more in, the important thing is we control the quotas
 
I Believe said:
Yes, we 'intellectual types' can't be seen to pander to the masses, can we, they keep coal in the bath don't you know.. good heavens what next!



Don't fear it... just don't want to live in it!



No, they've always known best..and no party has ever asked the people of Britain if they want that or not, except Cameron, but now they know!



So, you feel as if you have a lot to lose?



Saving on EU subs!



Eastern Europeans! However we will control the 'flows' of such workers, if we wish, we could let even more in, the important thing is we control the quotas
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I can't do that sort of quoting on my phone, but the divorce bill, sterling depreciation and likely tariffs will wipe out at least a generation's savings on EU subs, at best.

I'm not worried about my wife or I, more the likes of the misguided Sunderland Nissan workers who may have overwhelmingly voted themselves out of a job.

Seriously, why would the US, China or whoever give us favourable trade deals? I'm sure you saw Trump's tariffs on Bombardier? That is what we're facing.
 
Funny how those who live in fear of ECJ jurisdiction can never name a single law from the EU which has negatively effected them. Is it the sewage free beaches you hate? Or the workers rights? Or the safety tested products?

Never mind the fact that manufacturers will still have to comply with these regs if they want to sell into the EU. And no manufacturer is going to change their products to suit our market over the much larger EU.

So for UK manufacturers (those that still exist), not only will they have to be approved for UK regs, but for EU regs as well. And even if the regs are copy and pasted, the testing for EU sales will still have to be done at an EU approved tester within the EU.

This means that R&D costs are doubled, making UK manufacturers even less competitive.

For the company I work for, the type approval centre is now french-owned, and tests to EU regs. So the test centre itself is likely to move out of the UK, meaning there isn't even a testing facility within the UK. And even if it stays, it's approvals aren't worth the paper they're written on for export.

But this is all OK, because we can sell elsewhere right? Er, the US, Aus, NZ eta are all far more protectionist and have their own approvals and require their own testing at an approved facility.

Those dreaming of expanding our international trade are dreaming. Brexit will kill off what is left of UK international manufacturing.
 
Jippy said:
but the divorce bill,
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The EU seem to be struggling to give us an itemised bill, in any case unless an overall deal can be done it won't happen, we will all tumble over the cliff together... what do they say, "only the lawyers will benefit"!

Jippy said:
I'm not worried about my wife or I
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That's good!

Jippy said:
more the likes of the misguided Sunderland Nissan workers
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Yes, that's what comes of working in the North East, lots of misguided souls up there, some even support their local football team? I thought Nissan had recently announced expansion plans for the North East? Someone was telling me it is Nissan's most productive plant anywhere in Europe, that's probably why Theresa has done them a 'special deal' on Brexit; although no one seem willing to announce what that is?


Jippy said:
Seriously, why would the US, China or whoever give us favourable trade deals
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Because we are not in the EU...? They can get access to our markets on bi-lateral basis!

Jippy said:
I'm sure you saw Trump's tariffs on Bombardier? That is what we're facing.
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Yes I've read about the proposals and would being in the EU make any difference?
As I understand it one of the reasons for these tariffs being imposed is because Boeing have claimed 'state aid' has been used to subsidise Bombardier's manufacturing? Also since we are a customer of Boeings we have already put a shot across their bow over this, asking them to 'play nice'. I suspect given that Bombardier is a Canadian company, that's were this will get settled.

This is the way international trade works, is it not? There is a Brexit issue about our trading within the EU, that ideally needs to be settled by a 'deal', but as far as trade with the rest of the world is concerned we shall probably do at least as well, probably even better on our own.
 
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C3Pique said:
Funny how those who live in fear of ECJ jurisdiction can never name a single law from the EU which has negatively effected them.
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I'm massively pro-EU, but their regulations and taxes on cameras sold in the EU meant one of better cameras to come out in the last decade has a 29 minutes 59 second recording limit (per recording that is, you can do multiple 30 minute recordings on said camera), which means I can't use it to film things that last more than half an hour. That's definitely negatively effected me because I've had to film things like speeches or conferences with an inferior camera. They released an optional software upgrade for £150 (the cost of the tax) a couple of years after release, but it was definitely a ballache while we couldn't use it.
 
Control of our own borders; Make our own laws; dispense our own justice; make our own trade deals; save around £8-10B in subs! (you should know these by now Paul)
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This is just bullshit. Why do people repeat that crap? You should know better, you really should.

You never lost control of your borders, the EU never had a say in that. You do make your own laws and you do have your own justice system.

And if you really think that the UK, irrelevant as it is as an economic power, can somehow reach better trade deals outside of the EU than inside of it I have to question your sanity. You are even LEAVING a bunch of them by leaving the EU you will not be able to renegotiate as favorably. The UK will be a beggar, and don’t try to tell me that the Indians or Chinese will suddenly discover their generous side. The US will just be happy they can force all their standards on you as the Tories, just as it is their tradition, will bend over their arses to them. And then they’ll celebrate as they are getting b^ttfecked because being at the mercy of the American food lobby is just so much better than having to comply to those evil fascists in Brüssel!
 
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I Believe said:
Because we are not in the EU...? They can get access to our markets on bi-lateral basis!



Yes I've read about the proposals and would being in the EU make any difference?
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Okay, so that’s what you believe? Really? Wow. How does it benefit other countries when the market they gain access to is smaller than it would be otherwise?

I can only think of one and it’s the one that is going to happen: if anyone is even interested in having a trade deal with the UK (and at least for emerging countries, that’s not even guaranteed, as opening in their markets regulations when the markets access they gain in return is so small) the only benefit they will see from UK is not in the EU is that it’s way easier to push a small country around than a bigger one. The UK will be seen as a beggar and it’s indefinitely smaller as an economy and market as any of those countries it seeks to have deals with. How can you actually think they will get better deals as the EU.


As for the Bombardier situation, just google on Bush jr‘s Steel tariffs. They got killed pretty much instantly by the EU by threatening to lay tariffs on agricultural products from core republican states.
That mattered to Bush as we are talking about a 500 million people market. Do you really think he would have given in so easily to the much smaller UK?
 
fcbforever said:
Okay, so that’s what you believe? Really? Wow. How does it benefit other countries when the market they gain access to is smaller than it would be otherwise?

I can only think of one and it’s the one that is going to happen: if anyone is even interested in having a trade deal with the UK (and at least for emerging countries, that’s not even guaranteed, as opening in their markets regulations when the markets access they gain in return is so small) the only benefit they will see from UK is not in the EU is that it’s way easier to push a small country around than a bigger one. The UK will be seen as a beggar and it’s indefinitely smaller as an economy and market as any of those countries it seeks to have deals with. How can you actually think they will get better deals as the EU.


As for the Bombardier situation, just google on Bush jr‘s Steel tariffs. They got killed pretty much instantly by the EU by threatening to lay tariffs on agricultural products from core republican states.
That mattered to Bush as we are talking about a 500 million people market. Do you really think he would have given in so easily to the much smaller UK?
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Do you really think we would have protested against our American Overlords decision anyway? I mean we marched into an illegal war on his say so... so whats a few tarrifs
Not sure if your from Barca but genuinely whats the feeling there about trade etc if they declare independence?
 
I Believe said:
The EU seem to be struggling to give us an itemised bill, in any case unless an overall deal can be done it won't happen, we will all tumble over the cliff together... what do they say, "only the lawyers will benefit"!



That's good!



Yes, that's what comes of working in the North East, lots of misguided souls up there, some even support their local football team? I thought Nissan had recently announced expansion plans for the North East? Someone was telling me it is Nissan's most productive plant anywhere in Europe, that's probably why Theresa has done them a 'special deal' on Brexit; although no one seem willing to announce what that is?




Because we are not in the EU...? They can get access to our markets on bi-lateral basis!



Yes I've read about the proposals and would being in the EU make any difference?
As I understand it one of the reasons for these tariffs being imposed is because Boeing have claimed 'state aid' has been used to subsidise Bombardier's manufacturing? Also since we are a customer of Boeings we have already put a shot across their bow over this, asking them to 'play nice'. I suspect given that Bombardier is a Canadian company, that's were this will get settled.

This is the way international trade works, is it not? There is a Brexit issue about our trading within the EU, that ideally needs to be settled by a 'deal', but as far as trade with the rest of the world is concerned we shall probably do at least as well, probably even better on our own.
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The advantage of other countries dealing with the UK was that we were a bridgehead into the EU. We're a tiny market for the likes of China btw, they won't be banging our door down.
I'm from the NE and yep, Nissan got some undisclosed sweetener or other. We should get used to selling our arse for deals tbh.
 
sun_tzu said:
Do you really think we would have protested against our American Overlords decision anyway? I mean we marched into an illegal war on his say so... so whats a few tarrifs
Not sure if your from Barca but genuinely whats the feeling there about trade etc if they declare independence?
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He is from Bavaria.
 
Jippy said:
The advantage of other countries dealing with the UK was that we were a bridgehead into the EU. We're a tiny market for the likes of China btw, they won't be banging our door down.
I'm from the NE and yep, Nissan got some undisclosed sweetener or other. We should get used to selling our arse for deals tbh.
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if we dont get tariff free access i can see the government having to pick up the bill - or otherwise give tax breaks to companies to compensate for it because as you say many non EU firms picked the UK as their European base albeit for a number of reasons but pretty much universal was customs / tariff free access to the common market.
 
fcbforever said:
Okay, so that’s what you believe? Really? Wow. How does it benefit other countries when the market they gain access to is smaller than it would be otherwise?

I can only think of one and it’s the one that is going to happen: if anyone is even interested in having a trade deal with the UK (and at least for emerging countries, that’s not even guaranteed, as opening in their markets regulations when the markets access they gain in return is so small) the only benefit they will see from UK is not in the EU is that it’s way easier to push a small country around than a bigger one. The UK will be seen as a beggar and it’s indefinitely smaller as an economy and market as any of those countries it seeks to have deals with. How can you actually think they will get better deals as the EU.


As for the Bombardier situation, just google on Bush jr‘s Steel tariffs. They got killed pretty much instantly by the EU by threatening to lay tariffs on agricultural products from core republican states.
That mattered to Bush as we are talking about a 500 million people market. Do you really think he would have given in so easily to the much smaller UK?
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It's staggering how ideology can blind people to fact and reason.
 
sun_tzu said:
if we dont get tariff free access i can see the government having to pick up the bill - or otherwise give tax breaks to companies to compensate for it because as you say many non EU firms picked the UK as their European base albeit for a number of reasons but pretty much universal was customs / tariff free access to the common market.
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We can use that £350m a week.
 
Kentonio said:
Well prior to the crisis, how did the EU ruin the Greek economy, and why was Greece in such a uniquely bad position that other countries were not?
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My point is that the reaction from the EU towards Greece during and after the crisis(This was a crisis of global Capitalism, I'm not simply blame the EU) was borderline sadistic and was never going to work.

As Mark Blyth put it -

(17:35)
 
Jippy said:
The advantage of other countries dealing with the UK was that we were a bridgehead into the EU
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So they will be able to sell straight into the EU won't they, without using Britain as the middle man, did we take our cut..I forgot.. this is ludicrous? A significant number of the countries who did deals with the EU only did so because it gave them access to... Britain!

Jippy said:
We're a tiny market for the likes of China btw, they won't be banging our door down.
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They won't need to, unless that is the rest of the EU fails to take up the volume of sales from the Chinese that would have sold into the British market, if the EU cannot make up the short fall then the Chinese will need a deal with us, but the door will be open, they won't have to bang it down!

Jippy said:
I'm from the NE and yep, Nissan got some undisclosed sweetener or other. We should get used to selling our arse for deals tbh.
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Hah, Hah, selling our arse for deals, this is unbelievable, I thought you said you were a business journalist, how long have you been in the job?
 
I Believe said:
So they will be able to sell straight into the EU won't they, without using Britain as the middle man, did we take our cut..I forgot.. this is ludicrous? A significant number of the countries who did deals with the EU only did so because it gave them access to... Britain!



They won't need to, unless that is the rest of the EU fails to take up the volume of sales from the Chinese that would have sold into the British market, if the EU cannot make up the short fall then the Chinese will need a deal with us, but the door will be open, they won't have to bang it down!



Hah, Hah, selling our arse for deals, this is unbelievable, I thought you said you were a business journalist, how long have you been in the job?
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I don't get your middle man argument. Of course we took our cut. We know that thousands of finance jobs are moving to the likes of Frankfurt, Paris and Dublin. That's thousands of high earners, paying lots of tax and spending their money here all disappearing.

Been in the job 17 years. Of course sweeteners happen everywhere, eg VAT discounts, enterprise zones, tax windows etc...to incentivise employers to come here. We're just likely to be more reliant on these arrangements since we can't offer single market access. Kinda stands to reason.
 
I Believe said:
So they will be able to sell straight into the EU won't they, without using Britain as the middle man, did we take our cut..I forgot.. this is ludicrous? A significant number of the countries who did deals with the EU only did so because it gave them access to... Britain!
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:lol: no words
 
Jippy said:
Of course sweeteners happen everywhere, eg VAT discounts, enterprise zones, tax windows etc...to incentivise employers to come here. We're just likely to be more reliant on these arrangements since we can't offer single market access. Kinda stands to reason.
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Thank goodness for that, you had me worried there for a minute!
 
I Believe said:
So they will be able to sell straight into the EU won't they, without using Britain as the middle man, did we take our cut..I forgot.. this is ludicrous? A significant number of the countries who did deals with the EU only did so because it gave them access to... Britain!



They won't need to, unless that is the rest of the EU fails to take up the volume of sales from the Chinese that would have sold into the British market, if the EU cannot make up the short fall then the Chinese will need a deal with us, but the door will be open, they won't have to bang it down!



Hah, Hah, selling our arse for deals, this is unbelievable, I thought you said you were a business journalist, how long have you been in the job?
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What? No. Any examples?

And you really should understand why it would be desirable to use the UK as a bridgehead into the EU. They weren't using Britain as a middle man, that is an entirely different concept. Is Nissan taking the UK as a middle man? Hell no. Bridgehead doesn't mean trade via the UK but producing in Britain to export from there to the continent. This can be desirable for certain countries because the UK's main language is british or for a variety of other reasons. This is obviously and advantage GB will lose when it leaves the common market.

These are such fundamental things and I really don't think you are stupid, why do you come up with such nonsensical stuff. Do you really believe this shit? And if yes, then...why?
 
I Believe said:
They can get tailored deals, don't have to satisfy the needs of 27 other economies... simples

PS Glad to see you're back, by the way does your fcb = FC Bayern?
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For some countries maybe...but how is this good for the UK? "Tailored deals" is just a fancy word for "deals being more advantageous for them when compared to a comparable EU deal". Which obviously also means that it would be LESS advantageous for the UK.

The UK is in an extremely vulnerable and weak position, do you really think others won't wish to profit from that just because they are such nice people? I don't wanna shatter your world, but I mean....how can you believe that.

Let's say you are in desperate need of a car and go to a dealer. THat dealer is selling tons of cars to other people who are way bigger costumers than you are, just wanting one. Also, the dealer knows how desperate you are. Do you think he would offer you a better deal than he gives to that guy who's buying 10 cars per year for his company?

And yes, it's FC Bayern.
 
fcbforever said:
Bridgehead doesn't mean trade via the UK but producing in Britain to export from there to the continent.
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Thank you for explaining that, seems all that studying paid off for you. Nissan have secured a deal, read the other posts, they are expanding and upping their investment in Britain!
 
fcbforever said:
These are such fundamental things and I really don't think you are stupid, why do you come up with such nonsensical stuff. Do you really believe this shit? And if yes, then...why?
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:lol:I wish I had such an unshakeable faith in Brexit, let alone this dire, divided government's ability to deliver it.
 
I Believe said:
Precisely!;)
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Not in a good way. You're deluded.

I Believe said:
Thank you for explaining that, seems all that studying paid off for you. Nissan have secured a deal, read the other posts, they are expanding and upping their investment in Britain!
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And how much of the 350m a week will be spent appeasing foreign firms to prevent them from deserting Britain?
 
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