You've got to admit, it takes some serious mental gymnastics to believe "they" are (1) taking our jobs, (2) work shy scroungers and (3) all in prison.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
You've got to admit, it takes some serious mental gymnastics to believe "they" are (1) taking our jobs, (2) work shy scroungers and (3) all in prison.
You know these prison jobs that every Brit is looking to get into to replace the lazy feckers are being denied by hierarchical prisoners structure made of foreigners only who are having none of that.
I'm not saying you're wrong. I voted remain, but I think painting anyone who voted leave for reasons of immigration as a moronic racist is part of the reason many dug their heels in.
I didn't mention the word racist, not everyone is but they've been spoonfed endless drivel and nonsense by the RW press, racists like Farage and politicians with their own personal agenda and they're too stupid to realise they've been lied to. It's pure ignorance and the people who've fed them it know they'll lap it up. Xenophobia and racism also come from ignorance.
Even away from the xenophobic aspect, one woman said she noticed everything was getting more expensive, well there's a surprise, she hasn't seen anything yet.
I would agree with you but for one reason, you only need to see the way people express themselves when talking immigration as evident by that video.
Which ties into my earlier post. Should this have even been opened up to the public vote in the first place? How can the average man begin to understand the implications, when even those who do read up about it struggle to form an accurate viewpoint?
I just think there's a lot of people very concerned about a Britain which increasingly fails to resemble the one they identify with. Multi-cultural, multi-lingual, politically correct, and I think a lot of leave voters decided to protest this with their vote. Which means that the entire referendum was doomed from the start.
Sure, they'll die off soon and that'll be problem solved. But we can't exactly reverse what their decision left us with.
In other words, that is the definition of xenophobia. I do see where you're coming from and agree on what made them vote this way too and not blaming them for that. Just stating the fact that the xenophobia become very evident and you just reiterated that with your own words.
It clearly shouldn't have been put to a referendum for the reason you outlined, or at least not without a supramajority requirement for changing the status quo. That video (which is not untypical of towns across the North) is why Leave won - with the overwhelming support of the press, they were able to distill their message in a way which appealed to people's fear and disorientation with the modern world - and why "Project Fear" lost (people were already afraid and were persuaded by the siren, nostalgic voice of "take back control").
I agree with you wholeheartedly - if the outcome was based on the opinion of the MPs the outcome would have been overwhelmingly in favour of Remain and even then it's quite clear that even the MPs don't understand the implications - so then what.
If the Uk does leave off a cliff-edge and all the predictions do come true over the period of a few years, what happens then, do the government say sorry, we made a mistake, can we rejoin please.
And if it doesn't leave off a cliff-edge, it means that other than in name it is still part of the EU.
Whichever of the two happens, it's not going to be what anyone really wants.
http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/...ungen-ohne-qualen-geht-es-nicht-15257859.html
hahahaha we're fecked
hahahaha we're fecked
This government will go down as the least competent in at least 40-50 years. The scary part for Brits is, that May looks okay if we compare her to Johnson or Davis.
I start to wonder if they sit in front of a empty page of paper for over a year now, trying to figure out what to do.
May: "Any ideas?"
Boris: "let's be tough! French panties, Italian wine and German cars need our market. Ha"
Davis: "no deal is great" *lalalalalalal*
May: "......." *Cries*
I start to wonder if they sit in front of a empty page of paper for over a year now, trying to figure out what to do.
May: "Any ideas?"
Boris: "let's be tough! French panties, Italian wine and German cars need our market. Ha"
Davis: "no deal is great" *lalalalalalal*
May: "......." *Cries*
I agree. But I also think there's a difference, and xenophobia isn't the same as outright racism. Which is why these people don't like being told they're racist, because I genuinely don't think they are. Xenophobic? Definitely.
Yep, I also think another factor was people wanted to shake things up. Did you see the video from the days after the result broke? People who voted leave were stunned they actually won. They genuinely didn't think we would leave, but on some level it was new and exciting and they wanted to see the fallout I guess. The same might be said for Trump voters. They also said they would vote to remain if given another chance. These are the people who narrowly decided that the other 48% of the country would be dragged out of Europe against their will.
I hope so. I honestly think if they held another referendum next month, we'd see a massive majority for remain (and not just because a lot of leavers will have died off since last June). I don't think people realised what they were voting for until it was too late to go back, which again is another point about the electorate not being fit to decide I guess. Is there a theme emerging in my posts?
I agree. But I also think there's a difference, and xenophobia isn't the same as outright racism. Which is why these people don't like being told they're racist, because I genuinely don't think they are. Xenophobic? Definitely.
Yep, I also think another factor was people wanted to shake things up. Did you see the video from the days after the result broke? People who voted leave were stunned they actually won. They genuinely didn't think we would leave, but on some level it was new and exciting and they wanted to see the fallout I guess. The same might be said for Trump voters. They also said they would vote to remain if given another chance. These are the people who narrowly decided that the other 48% of the country would be dragged out of Europe against their will.
I hope so. I honestly think if they held another referendum next month, we'd see a massive majority for remain (and not just because a lot of leavers will have died off since last June). I don't think people realised what they were voting for until it was too late to go back, which again is another point about the electorate not being fit to decide I guess. Is there a theme emerging in my posts?
On the whole British people have never liked anything that's different and that includes foreigners , being an island nation doesn't help but it's not a new thing. Slowly people get used to differences but it will still be a long time before this xenophobia reduces significantly.
If a referendum was held tomorrow it may be close one way or the other but people like those in the video still have no more clue now than they did 16 months ago.
Until the full implications slap them in the face it will be difficult to change their minds.
If the UK leaves and in a few years decide to come back , significant damage will already have been done and it would take many years to repair that damage.
I'd say they have three months to sort themselves out - banks, companies, investors want a clear idea what is going to happen by the latest early 2018, they have to decide their future and soon.
Many voted for accountability and transparency.
We see with Catalonia trying to escape from Spain and Britain before it can change anything in the EU needs the agreement of 27 other nations!
We see with Catalonia trying to escape from Spain and Britain before it can change anything in the EU needs the agreement of 27 other nations!
What has catalonia got to do with the EU?
It probably won't, but then no other solution is likely to either! The extreme 'brexiteers' and the extreme 're-moaners' will have to 'bite the bullet', that's what all the politicians EU/Britain are banking on.
I still feel there will be casualties in terms of politicians/administrators. May will go because of the cost, Juncker and possibly Tusk because they let it get this far, they could have placated Cameron, but they didn't believe for one minute a) he would hold a referendum and b) the vote would be to leave. Cameron has already paid the price. Can't see Merkel and Macron (assuming he gets his reforms through in France) going forward trusting Juncker, may be they will allow Tusk some latitude, but I suspect Claude's a goner!
What is transparent about the way the government rules the UK, the details of the EU negotiations are available on the EU website, May wants to cover everything up.
The Catalonia/Spain problem is not the same thing.
Maybe Chipping Sodbury wants to break away from the UK, everyone can break away from each other, sounds like something from the Dark Ages.
That one indeed paints a pretty grim picture for May.
Well Catalonia needs to get the agreement of all the other provinces of Spain before it can constitutionally secede, so there is a parallel.
No, there is no parallel. You can leave unilaterally and that's what you decided to do, the current negotiations are about the type of relationship that the UK and the EU will have in the future.
To be fair to May (not easy to type), she is trying to square a circle - as PM, to avoid trashing the economy, she needs to maintain some reasonable level of access to the EU zone (which naturally involves compromise, especially on the part of the UK as the one with more to lose) while, as leader of the Conservative Party, she needs to keep some credit with the lunatic elements in Cabinet, parliament and the party membership who live in their own Brexit fantasy land. The first concern should take priority over the second but she lacks the authority to take direct action against egomaniacal cynics like Johnson and fanatics like Fox. Despite being wholly unsuited for the role of PM, she is probably the least worst realistic option at the moment even if that sounds like Liverpool fans discussing their options at GK or central defence.
She is trying to keep the Tory Party together, Cameron only offered a referendum as the Tories had the biggest margin of voters (from the LibLabCon) that wanted to leave the EU and risked the most if these voters decided to switch to UKIP or abstain.
What about the rest of the year?
NO parallel at all imo.
UK can decide to leave, catalonia no. UK is an existing entity that is part of organizations like WTA, EU, OTAN, Common wealth, etc...and has state structures and many other things. EU can't oppose the UK to leave
Catalonia has nothing of that and Spain can oppose and is backed by the international community
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-undermine-talks-uk-leave-deals-a8015081.html
The EU negotiators are pretty pissed off about the begging leak. But neither the EU or no.10 are denying the specifics of what faz reported. It also appears they're implying the UK side was responsible for said leak. Not sure why they're pissed all of a sudden, they've been responsible for the majority of leaks so far. And long may the leaks continue I say, if we're getting fecked we might as well get something out of it.
The EU negotiators are pretty pissed off about the begging leak. But neither the EU or no.10 are denying the specifics of what faz reported. It also appears they're implying the UK side was responsible for said leak. Not sure why they're pissed all of a sudden, they've been responsible for the majority of leaks so far. And long may the leaks continue I say, if we're getting fecked we might as well get something out of it.
June was good but she's not in charge
Go Catalonia. The eu chooses their sides, at the moment they are trying to interfere in eastern europe, now spain but they have no say in what goes on in sovereign states, they are such wankers its unreal.
Give April a call
Wow.
Crikey, big brother stalking the uni corridors.
Or he simply realised that he was missing out on some of the fundamentals regarding the whole issue and decided to seek further education.
Another Donald Trump wannabe Brexiter. Surprise, surprise.
I only had been a fan of the EU for the economic system, most of the things I would care we could get with the EFTA (and not even need Spain's permission), but EU morals are disgusting, not because of catalonia, but because how they boast their high morals and at the moment of the truth they are despicable as shown with the refugee crisis, Greece, CETA, etc...I would definitely would not like to be there further than the 4 Freedoms
Realistically what would you have them do? Tell one of their main members that they are acting like assholes? It does feel hypocritical at times, but if you're going to hold together a union of quite diverse countries with a long and colourful history of killing each other, then at times you're going to have to be pragmatic about it. No multinational union or even national government manages to always be completely moral, because the world of geopolitics isn't a particularly moral place. Compared to pretty much all the others though, the EU manages to maintain a focus on some pretty damn positive things.
And it's just a really bad reading of the situation, the EU is nothing else than a cooperation of countries why/how would that cooperation be morally better than its members? People need to stop with this idea that the EU isn't its members.
Cooperation? Is that being told by a powerful few how to run your ship?
No, it's choosing if you want to be part of an union and having a voice and a veto. If you don't like it, don't join or just leave.
I question that, Wallonia veto'd and got a German visitor, then conformed. coincidence? you choose, you probably have a very good pro eu explanation for it.
Well, if my european taxes goes in paying pirates in the lybian coast to size ships of immigrants to turn them back and put them in private third world prisons (managed by the pirates themselves that call themselves saviours of europe), mixed women and men with no beds, walls, showers when women continuously bleed because are being rape constantly by hundreds of men.
When we provoke wars and sell military armament to countries to earn money that generates taxes that we enjoy but then we do not want to know anything about the consequences when the refugees comes here.
When you accept CETA, luckily Walonia could hold a bit some of the parts. A treaty that protects private companies over states and prople, being able to force to change the legislation, importing products that are not safe, just because greed.
I am sorry, I want better than that
Catalonia? I fully understand the reasons of the EU. Is not the problem. My problem with the EU is other things as mentioned and it goes way back of what is happening now. When they say"if you get independent you will get out of the EU" I say:"oh, it comes with a prize'? don't mind to get business with them, but I do not want to be more involved than necessarily, and now, even more for personal reasons.