But it's just been pointed out above it wasn't the EU's fault at all and was the choice of the UK government.
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
But it's just been pointed out above it wasn't the EU's fault at all and was the choice of the UK government.
Fair immigration for a start!
jokes aside, yes, I want a very qualified nurse from Indonesia or Australia or Nepal or wherever to be have a very good chance to coming (see, I'm still a Brit at heart) to the UK, rather than an unqualified person from any old EU country and treating it like their own.
Sounds like we need clarity on that, I'm not sure tbh. Not what I understood.
Fair immigration for a start!
jokes aside, yes, I want a very qualified nurse from Indonesia or Australia or Nepal or wherever to be have a very good chance to coming (see, I'm still a Brit at heart) to the UK, rather than an unqualified person from any old EU country and treating it like their own.
Well better hope they start applying soon because you've succeeded in gutting the number of EU nurses coming!
2004 isn't exactly new.
Look for (10) http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.L_.2004.158.01.0077.01.ENG&toc=OJ:L:2004:158:TOC
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Not entirely true is it?
This is what I mean, let's have a grown up debate as adults rather than spewing random fake-facts that you want to believe:
Fair immigration for a start!
jokes aside, yes, I want a very qualified nurse from Indonesia or Australia or Nepal or wherever to be have a very good chance to coming (see, I'm still a Brit at heart) to the UK, rather than an unqualified person from any old EU country and treating it like their own.
Despite the fact that non 'Western' immigrants are less likely to integrate into the local community, and much less likely to speak English.
Contradicting your own argument a little there, chief.
Are you being racist and disingenuous to folks living in these places by saying they don't have people that can speak English?! Surely not!
Right, I really have to go now! This has been fun tbh.
I mean, did you deliberately post something that doesn't provide a proper source for its claims to be ironic or do you genuinely not see the issue with what you've just done?
Thank you! I was looking for that
Basically after 3 months an EU member state can deport a migrant if they are not in work or cannot prove that they have the capital to sustain themselves without state assistance.
For years the UK decided it wasn't cost effective to implement because EU immigrants are net contributors to the wealth of the country, and this is where it got us...
I believe source is written clearly at the bottom of the stats mate....
I had no idea! So where did it go wrong? Basically you are saying the EU rules had it built-in, but the UK Govts of the day refused to enact?!
yes- it wasn't cost effective, as EU migrants are net contributors to the country, and enforcing this would be expensive. Obviously it's a political can that was kicked down the road until we got to this point.
Fair immigration for a start!
jokes aside, yes, I want a very qualified nurse from Indonesia or Australia or Nepal or wherever to be have a very good chance to coming (see, I'm still a Brit at heart) to the UK, rather than an unqualified person from any old EU country and treating it like their own.
If they come from Indonesia or Nepal they may not speak English. What's this treating it like their own bit?
Another point which is slightly puzzling, the Uk government and Brexiters as a whole only want qualified people with high salaries to do the well paid jobs and don't want people who earn under £18k a year to be in the UK.
This begs the question, who will be doing the lower paid jobs, cleaners, fruit-pickers, shelf-stackers etc, presume this is what is planned for the 1.4 million unemployed, the ones who voted for Brexit because they had such a terrible life because of the EU. They won't be able to have the better jobs because immigrants would have taken them all.
I agree with you that the word 'source' is written at the bottom of that page, I'm less in agreement that they've actually sourced their claims though. Where, precisely, can I find the information on digital.nhs.uk (which I can only assume is what they are referencing)?
We'll get on to the fact that your tweet doesn't address the issue later.
Fukk me, a tory voter. Austerity was not the answer and has not worked. I heard on the telly today that uk asked the imf for cash with a debt/gdp ratio of 50 odd per cent, that is now 88%, where did all the savings go?
It's up there with Jacob Rees-Mogg becoming the voice of populism in terms of how batshit crazy the whole thing is.
So if only 650,000 voted for Brexit because they believed this particular lie but would have voted Remain if they had been told the truth the result would have been a Remain win. Then we have all the dozens of other lies, scary isn't it.
God no, the party is such a mess from top to bottom. I'll stick with my good local MP, who happens to be Labour, as long as I live here.I assume you'll not be swinging back to the Tories again anytime soon if he gets in.
JRM's voting record is odious, yet as with Boris, the masses seem to view him as a benign eccentric clown.
Steady on!Give it a year or two and you'll be out campaigning with your red rosette!
Normally I refrain from posting as I find the level of debate somewhat less than informative. Just had to stick my head above the parapet on this occasion however simply because these two passages did amuse me so. Simple things please simple minds so my mother used to tell me but thats another story.
My amusement stems from the assumption that only one side lied to the population during the referendum debate. Or if thats too strong that one side, namely those advocating a vote to leave, lied more than the other. If that is so then I must have been asleep during the whole campaign for whilst I am fully aware of the untruths told by those urging me to vote leave I am sure I dreamt that those imploring me to vote remain were just as bad. Or am I mistaken that the Treasury issued reports saying that half a million jobs would be destroyed within 2 years of a vote to leave. That economic growth over the same period would fall between 3 and 6 percent. That the value of my house would be less. And were these reports not backed up by outpourings from such august institutions as the World Bank, the IMF and the OECD who also forecast that there would be an immediate sell off of assets in the UK. All of these so called experts predicting Armageddon. Then to top it all Mr Obama was trundled out to sing the same tune along with our then Chancellor asserting that there would have to be an emergency budget.
Yet to date where are we? Unemployment continues to fall. GDP is still rising. House prices remain on an upward trend and the Stock Market is as bullish as ever.
So now what. The cry goes up that the UK is still in the EU and its just a matter of time. Well slap me in the belly with a wet cod. The UK was always going to remain in the EU for two years after triggering Article 50. I would have expected the experts to have known that. Then again perhaps, they are not as expert as they say they are.
And as for the theory that its just a matter of time. That Armageddon still awaits but its around the corner. Well forgive me for suggesting that to expound such a view conjures in the mind those who forecast the end of the world. It does not happen on the said day so we go away and make a fresh prediction that it will still occur maybe tomorrow.
No wonder we lost the argument to remain is all I can say.
There was not one jot or tittle said that was positive then and no-one is saying anything positive now. The EU itself is not helping matters at times when some of its officials appear to be all for punishing the UK. Is Project Fear all we really have to offer? It very much seems like it. When folks are in pain, and there are many in the UK who are in pain, simply suggesting that they have to grin and bear it for the greater good will never cut the mustard. Folks have to be given hope. To date the remain campaign gave and still gives none.
predicting doom isn't quite the same as a propaganda campaign based on horse-shit
Of course there were exaggerations on both sides but it's the degree of lies on one side that far outweighed the other. If anyone believed the plagues of locusts, WW3 or North Korea then proves even more the point that this should never have been put to the people. Believing that immigrants were responsible for the Uk's problems was easily more believable to Brexit voters.
I didn't say I agreed with the IMF predictions either, I still stick to what I think will happen and so far has happened exactly as I thought. If you think leaving the EU with no deal will not cause major economic problems to the UK then I presume you will still be amused when that does happen because it will unless the Uk leave in name only which I also think will be the case.
What the experts mainly miscalculated was that the UK would take 9 months to trigger A50 so they don't leave until 33 months after the referendum - but even then they want a transitional deal so if they get that, it will prolong it to 57 months at least - is it then they fall off the cliff or do they get some other deal.
The length of time all this takes will affect the predictions.
So if the Remain campaign offers the status quo, the Leave campaign offered what in its place - to be even worse off, you can understand people wanting to change for something better but not to want a leap into the unknown which has a 90% chance of being worse.
In which way is the EU punishing the UK, ridiculous, the EU has rules, the UK wishes to leave , go but respect the rules - it's very simple but the government don't seem to understand this and no they can't have their cake and eat it.
Unemployment is down because of innovation in 'self employment' and changes in the benefits system- although this is causing underemployment
Growth is stunted below where other EU nations are, and is being propped up by consumer debt.
Inflation is at 3%, only so low because manufacturers are eating some of the costs in the short term and oil prices are remaining low, food inflation is far higher so the impact is real for low earners. The Bank of England is allowing inflation to stay high in the short term because the economy is fragile with consumer debt.
Growth is stunted below where other EU nations are, and is being propped up by consumer debt.
Inflation is at 3%, only so low because manufacturers are eating some of the costs in the short term and oil prices are remaining low, food inflation is far higher so the impact is real for low earners. The Bank of England is allowing inflation to stay high in the short term because the economy is fragile with consumer debt.
The Bank of England are presumably holding out praying that a detailed description of the terms of Brexit can be released so the risk factor in Sterling is reduced and the currency can strengthen above the current level. At that point increasing the rates may actually encourage international investment in the UK and further strengthen the £ and lower inflation back to normal levels.
A substantial number of unemployed people suddenly finding jobs and being fit to work as their income leeching off the state came undone?!
Wish I could have such a Panglossian view of life before the shit really hits the fan. Predictions, be they sports, economic or political ones are always prone to inaccuracy, but if you don't think Brexit will have enormous economic repercussions, at the very least in the short to medium term, then you are hopeful at best, deluded more likely.
One thing I've yet to seen any Brexiter give a rational response to is the whole issue surrounding the Irish border. Obviously been discussed but it could have potentially massive ramifications for the Good Friday agreement which opens a whole can of worms.
You would have thought they would have the answer already worked out beforehand because if was obviously a problem as pointed out long before the referendum.
Paz, the problem there is that what seems like common sense with regards to the economy is actually completely counter productive. We tend to see government spending like a household or company budget and assume that yes when times are hard you tighten your belt. When it comes to government spending though, this is absolutely the wrong thing to do. Government doesn't just react to the economy, government is a major influencer of the economy. In hard times, companies are less likely to invest and the public have less money to spend so the economy shrinks. If government also cut spending, then they contribute to that economic decline. More people losing their jobs or having to move onto lower paid or part time jobs, less disposible income, less spending on projects which would incentivize companies to invest.
When the economy is struggling thats the time when government should be opening the purse not closing it. When things are going well we should be storing away money ready for the next time we need to inject new energy into the economy, but unfortunately the tories want to cut when times are hard, and Labouor never got their heads around the idea of saving when things are prosperous. Austerity though was absolutely the wrong direction to take, which is why the Tories financial predictions have been proved so very, very wrong time after time.
Totally understand where you are coming from.
I'm not sure either of us can be so definitively for or against the approach though, there's a debate in the wider world about this.
But I understand what you are saying and ofcourse perhaps I (and fellow 'austerity when shit starts financially collapsing ideologs') are incorrect.
Surely the answer is somewhere in between though...
Please, this implicates Labour etc too.
It's been a collective clusterfeck from both sides. I guess we have Crossrail, sceptical on H2. I'm sure everyone feels the same about a certain road in their area, but if they resurface Shepherd's Bush Road again, with all the delays it caused, I may go all Falling Down.
The last 2/3 pages of this thread with posts of interesting debate, but spot the odd-one-out.
Re: German elections
MERKEL SAYS IMMIGRATION WAS MAIN STICKING POINT: RTRS
Must be a deluded racist nation too, eh?
MERKEL SAYS IMMIGRATION WAS MAIN STICKING POINT: RTRS
Must be a deluded racist nation too, eh?
You've missed the point yet again. The Germans take issue with non-EU migration. The UK takes issue with allowing people from nations who are closer are to it culturally because it's 'unfair' or rather use that as a convenient excuse.