Chelsea 2017/18 thread - FA Cup Champs, League chumps

singabiru said:
Not from what I read from the press as multiple bids were stated.

Danny Rose was worth a punt but the Board didn’t bother.
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Danny Rose was never viable. Tottenham do not sell to Chelsea. Its been established in the past that they won't sell to us with Modric and also Walker who they essentially told us to piss off over in the summer. Reprimanding the board for not going in for Rose is very harsh considering. Also, we don't even know if Conte even wanted Rose to replace Alonso. Seeing as Sandro was the only LB we were linked with it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that Conte only wanted Sandro.

We did bid up to £60m for Sandro and not only was it outright rejected, he ended up signing a new contract and staying. The fact of the matter is there was no indication from his side that he wanted to leave and none from Juventus' side that they wanted to sell. What did you want the board to do? Offer £80m+ that would've been necessary to bring them to the table? Completely shatter the premier league record on a defender? It was never going to happen and no club would've done it either.

It seems to me that you aren't angry about the boards refusal to sign players, you're angry about the fact that Chelsea as a club are incapable of attracting the calibre of player that you want us to sign. We just aren't as attractive a destination as you want us to be and you seem to be blaming the board for this fact which is just unfair.
 
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singabiru said:
Not from what I read from the press as multiple bids were stated.

Danny Rose was worth a punt but the Board didn’t bother.
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So you want to buy an inferior player to Alonso just to fulfill your muppet desires? Chelsea fans :wenger:
 
Any predictions for the Liverpool match this weekend?

If we just play on the counter and let them tire themselves out, we can go on the front foot by switching to attack after the 60th minute.
 
singabiru said:
Not from what I read from the press as multiple bids were stated.

Danny Rose was worth a punt but the Board didn’t bother.
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You made one offer and left it on the table all summer

Rose...you think tottenham would have sold him? :lol:
 
Theafonis said:
Any predictions for the Liverpool match this weekend?

If we just play on the counter and let them tire themselves out, we can go on the front foot by switching to attack after the 60th minute.
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2-2. Think we will score first on the counter anyway whether they are tired or not.
 
Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 said:
They seem to go on a good run again. Probably it is too late for the league, but they can have their say in the Champions League.
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With everyone back and fit I do fancy are chances of pushing City or at least keeping it interesting. But they have too much depth for us to beat them over the course of the year unfortunately I think. We would be relying on an implosion.

I hope we stay in the title race till the end and hopefully win a cup.
 
Don _ Conte said:
With everyone back and fit I do fancy are chances of pushing City or at least keeping it interesting. But they have too much depth for us to beat them over the course of the year unfortunately I think. We would be relying on an implosion.

I hope we stay in the title race till the end and hopefully win a cup.
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If you went on a run like last season it might become interesting, but it is really too late. City can even afford to lose 1 game and would still 6 points ahead of you.
 
giorno said:
You made one offer and left it on the table all summer

Rose...you think tottenham would have sold him? :lol:
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Nope, I don't believe that's the way the Chelsea Board operate. If bids are rejected or stalled, they bid small increments.

Regarding Danny Rose, why not? He's unsettled in the summer and still is. Pochettino doesn't even consider him first choice.
 
Other said:
Danny Rose was never viable. Tottenham do not sell to Chelsea. Its been established in the past that they won't sell to us with Modric and also Walker who they essentially told us to piss off over in the summer. Reprimanding the board for not going in for Rose is very harsh considering. Also, we don't even know if Conte even wanted Rose to replace Alonso. Seeing as Sandro was the only LB we were linked with it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that Conte only wanted Sandro.

We did bid up to £60m for Sandro and not only was it outright rejected, he ended up signing a new contract and staying. The fact of the matter is there was no indication from his side that he wanted to leave and none from Juventus' side that they wanted to sell. What did you want the board to do? Offer £80m+ that would've been necessary to bring them to the table? Completely shatter the premier league record on a defender? It was never going to happen and no club would've done it either.

It seems to me that you aren't angry about the boards refusal to sign players, you're angry about the fact that Chelsea as a club are incapable of attracting the calibre of player that you want us to sign. We just aren't as attractive a destination as you want us to be and you seem to be blaming the board for this fact which is just unfair.
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Danny Rose was unsettled at Spurs in the summer and still is. There's no carved in stone statement that Spurs will never sell to Chelsea. At least take a punt on him. Aslo, Walker was never seriously considered by the Board as they weren't interested in a bidding war with Man City with reference to Conte's comments regarding Walker being expensive and all that. Same goes for Danilo too. If Sandro was unobtainable for whatever reason, I doubt Conte would say no to Benjamin Mendy as a second option.

By the way, there's no anger on my part and it's foolish to adjudicate emotions of anoymous posters in an impersonal online forum. Just pointing out the huge missteps taken by the Board in buying players which means the club will never regain its previous role as a serious European force. Chelsea as a football club is a very attractive destination and most players bar the truly world class ones would be happy to join provided the pay is right and the transfer fees are agreed. Which is where the club falls way short with Marina's insistence in getting so-called value for money and leaving it right at the wire to bid for second or third options.
 
D2Z said:
So you want to buy an inferior player to Alonso just to fulfill your muppet desires? Chelsea fans :wenger:
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Keep your muppet comments to yourself and Danny Rose is an inferior player? LOL.
 
D2Z said:
So you want to buy an inferior player to Alonso just to fulfill your muppet desires? Chelsea fans :wenger:
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Danny Rose is inferior to Alonso?
 
@singabiru you play waaay too much FM. In real life, great players at rich clubs don't become available just because you want them to. Chelsea would have had to pay close to Pogba money for juventus to even listen, Spurs weren't going to sell Rose last summer, doesn't matter that he was unsettled

This has nothing to do penny-pinching and all to do with lacking alternatives. Penny-pinching is what you did with Lukaku
 
singabiru said:
Danny Rose was unsettled at Spurs in the summer and still is. There's no carved in stone statement that Spurs will never sell to Chelsea. At least take a punt on him. Aslo, Walker was never seriously considered by the Board as they weren't interested in a bidding war with Man City with reference to Conte's comments regarding Walker being expensive and all that. Same goes for Danilo too. If Sandro was unobtainable for whatever reason, I doubt Conte would say no to Benjamin Mendy as a second option.

By the way, there's no anger on my part and it's foolish to adjudicate emotions of anoymous posters in an impersonal online forum. Just pointing out the huge missteps taken by the Board in buying players which means the club will never regain its previous role as a serious European force. Chelsea as a football club is a very attractive destination and most players bar the truly world class ones would be happy to join provided the pay is right and the transfer fees are agreed. Which is where the club falls way short with Marina's insistence in getting so-called value for money and leaving it right at the wire to bid for second or third options.
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Lots of players are unsettled, doesn't mean they are sold. There is no way Tottenham would sell their two fullbacks in one summer, let alone sell them to Chelsea, it just isn't happening. Then there is his injury record. Is it worth risking the £50m it would've cost to sign a player who has a poor injury record and could miss a third of the season? The board obviously thought not. Plus you're also missing the biggest issue; we may not have wanted him. Fact of the matter is, the only LB we went in for was Sandro. This suggests one of two things:

1) We only wanted Sandro

2)We couldn't find a cheaper alternative

Considering we found Zappacosta for RWB, I think its safe to assume option number two is not true. This suggests that Sandro really was our only target in the summer and that Conte did not want any other player for that position; that includes Mendy and Rose.

I think there is a big disparity between who you think we can sign and who we can actually sign. Top players, playing for rich, competitive clubs are not available. The players who are a available are talented players with top player potential and top players playing for poorer/lesser known clubs. The only time a rich club has sold its players is when said player is not a starter and actively pushes for a move. Sandro did/is neither and that's why Juventus didn't even come to the table.


On a different note, things are looking good on the youth front. A lot of the players on loan should be ready to come into the squad and do a job for us already, which should allow us to go all out for a LWB next summer. Loftus-Cheek has been performing very well for Crystal Palace, Tammy Abraham has been a one man attack for Swansea and Mason Mount just put in a MotM performance against Lazio. Mason Mount in particular reminds me a lot of De Bruyne; whether he can reach that level is another thing but the talent is there.
 
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Pogbasky said:
I've always argued that we are better off going for the French connection (Pogba, Lukaku at other Francophone boys), than going for the Iberian boys because Iberians (Spanish and Portuguese players and also South Americans) will jump at the chance to go to Barca or Madrid soon as those teams come calling. We are likely going to get more loyalty from the likes of Lukaku, Martial, Pogba and even Griezmann and Lindeloff because our history with players from the non Iberian nations on the mainland tells us that they don't mind living in Manchester and won't drop their tools the moment Barca or Madrid come calling.
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Not Griezmann
 
Pogbasky said:
I've always argued that we are better off going for the French connection (Pogba, Lukaku at other Francophone boys), than going for the Iberian boys because Iberians (Spanish and Portuguese players and also South Americans) will jump at the chance to go to Barca or Madrid soon as those teams come calling. We are likely going to get more loyalty from the likes of Lukaku, Martial, Pogba and even Griezmann and Lindeloff because our history with players from the non Iberian nations on the mainland tells us that they don't mind living in Manchester and won't drop their tools the moment Barca or Madrid come calling.
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I would agree on this for the most part, the only thing I think is different is the pull of PSG now and if French players like the ones you've listed were to receive an offer now or in the coming years would they likely leave for them and I think that is just as much of a possibility.
 
Once again PSG have zero competition in that league any longer. Monaco are 2nd in the French League, but bottom of their CL group. That in itself is a tell tale sign how bad French football is again. Monaco made a huge mistake selling their best players, but greed comes before trophies I guess.
 
giorno said:
@singabiru you play waaay too much FM. In real life, great players at rich clubs don't become available just because you want them to. Chelsea would have had to pay close to Pogba money for juventus to even listen, Spurs weren't going to sell Rose last summer, doesn't matter that he was unsettled

This has nothing to do penny-pinching and all to do with lacking alternatives. Penny-pinching is what you did with Lukaku
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Lay of the FM rubbish. The board wouldn’t have bidded for Sandro if there was no chance in hell for him to leave. A bid for Rose would have been interesting despite what you claim about Spurs not wanting to sell. Pochettino doesn’t even want to play him regularly anymore so he will be off sooner or later. Mendy was also an alternative although Chelsea would never win in a bidding war with Man City. I am not so sure that the board really wanted to buy Lukaku in the first place when Morata was available.
 
Other said:
Lots of players are unsettled, doesn't mean they are sold. There is no way Tottenham would sell their two fullbacks in one summer, let alone sell them to Chelsea, it just isn't happening. Then there is his injury record. Is it worth risking the £50m it would've cost to sign a player who has a poor injury record and could miss a third of the season? The board obviously thought not. Plus you're also missing the biggest issue; we may not have wanted him. Fact of the matter is, the only LB we went in for was Sandro. This suggests one of two things:

1) We only wanted Sandro

2)We couldn't find a cheaper alternative

Considering we found Zappacosta for RWB, I think its safe to assume option number two is not true. This suggests that Sandro really was our only target in the summer and that Conte did not want any other player for that position; that includes Mendy and Rose.

I think there is a big disparity between who you think we can sign and who we can actually sign. Top players, playing for rich, competitive clubs are not available. The players who are a available are talented players with top player potential and top players playing for poorer/lesser known clubs. The only time a rich club has sold its players is when said player is not a starter and actively pushes for a move. Sandro did/is neither and that's why Juventus didn't even come to the table.


On a different note, things are looking good on the youth front. A lot of the players on loan should be ready to come into the squad and do a job for us already, which should allow us to go all out for a LWB next summer. Loftus-Cheek has been performing very well for Crystal Palace, Tammy Abraham has been a one man attack for Swansea and Mason Mount just put in a MotM performance against Lazio. Mason Mount in particular reminds me a lot of De Bruyne; whether he can reach that level is another thing but the talent is there.
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There was also Mendy. Danilo could have also been a cheaper alternative but the Board again missed out on him after dawdling on fixing a transfer fee while Man City swooped in. I doubt Conte would be so stubborn as not to have alternatives for his first choice targets especially since he was complaining more about the squad size than a choice of top quality players. It’s not about who I think the board can sign. The board wouldn’t have bidded for the likes of Sandro, Stones etc if they didn’t think there was a chance that they could be bought. It’s more of the fact that Marina cannot bring herself to pay that final transfer fee that get the deals completed. If they refuse to do that, it’s best they stop pursuing such players in the future.

I wouldn’t put too much stock on having a large youth break through. You will be lucky to see one youth player breaking into the first team on a regular basis every 3 or 4 Seasons. The club still has to buy upgrades for a number of positions and some youth players can supplement the squad numbers.
 
singabiru said:
There was also Mendy. Danilo could have also been a cheaper alternative but the Board again missed out on him after dawdling on fixing a transfer fee while Man City swooped in. I doubt Conte would be so stubborn as not to have alternatives for his first choice targets especially since he was complaining more about the squad size than a choice of top quality players. It’s not about who I think the board can sign. The board wouldn’t have bidded for the likes of Sandro, Stones etc if they didn’t think there was a chance that they could be bought. It’s more of the fact that Marina cannot bring herself to pay that final transfer fee that get the deals completed. If they refuse to do that, it’s best they stop pursuing such players in the future.

I wouldn’t put too much stock on having a large youth break through. You will be lucky to see one youth player breaking into the first team on a regular basis every 3 or 4 Seasons. The club still has to buy upgrades for a number of positions and some youth players can supplement the squad numbers.
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Think it's public knowledge Mendy only wanted to join City. Here's what Monaco's Monaco vice-president Vadim Vasilyev had to say on his transfer:
“He replied, ‘But Vadim, I really want to go to City with [Pep] Guardiola.’
“Several times he said to me, ‘If it was Chelsea, I would stay, but this is Guardiola, I want to go there.’
"He was frank with me. So when City put that price, when it became the most expensive defender in the world, I had no more arguments to oppose it.”
IMO, he didn't want competition with Alonso who had a terrific yr last season as he knew he was guaranteed a starting berth at City given City had let go of their fullbacks.
 
ixa67 said:
Think it's public knowledge Mendy only wanted to join City. Here's what Monaco's Monaco vice-president Vadim Vasilyev had to say on his transfer:
“He replied, ‘But Vadim, I really want to go to City with [Pep] Guardiola.’
“Several times he said to me, ‘If it was Chelsea, I would stay, but this is Guardiola, I want to go there.’
"He was frank with me. So when City put that price, when it became the most expensive defender in the world, I had no more arguments to oppose it.”
IMO, he didn't want competition with Alonso who had a terrific yr last season as he knew he was guaranteed a starting berth at City given City had let go of their fullbacks.
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Ouch, watch him change the goalposts now :lol:
 
singabiru said:
Lay of the FM rubbish. The board wouldn’t have bidded for Sandro if there was no chance in hell for him to leave. A bid for Rose would have been interesting despite what you claim about Spurs not wanting to sell. Pochettino doesn’t even want to play him regularly anymore so he will be off sooner or later. Mendy was also an alternative although Chelsea would never win in a bidding war with Man City. I am not so sure that the board really wanted to buy Lukaku in the first place when Morata was available.
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Clubs make bids for players and hope it works. Alex Sandro was very interested in Chelsea's offer. The problem was Juventus weren't. And weren't going to be unless the offer was of truly demential proportions, or the player forced them to sell. The same thing would have happened with Rose at Spurs.
 
RooneyLegend said:
They can obviously change the way they play.
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There actually isn't much difference in how they play. Generally speaking, the idea of bringing in a new manager is to build upon the ideas of the last manager and create and evolution of the teams playing style. Sticking to the exact same ideas is detrimental to the squad and will lead to mental fatigue as the players grow tired of the methods being applied. That's why Conte was a good choice after Mourinho (Both employ a similar defensive game but Conte uses a different ideology with regards to possession) as there was progression in style without having to rip up the whole formula. That's part of the reason why United have struggled so much recently, Moyes to LVG to Mourinho is more a complete change in ideas rather than an alteration of ideas. Its much harder for a squad to drastically alter the way they play and that's why Uniteds teams have struggled as much as they have.

In terms of Conte and Sarri, I would say they are pretty close to each other in how they approach the game. Whilst their off ball methods are different, Conte's possession system is built in the same mould as Guardiola and Sarri (In fact Guardiola has claimed to have learnt a lot from observing Conte's teams). They all play a positional game based upon building the ball from the back, which involves utilising the opposing teams press to create space in which the attack can utilise and exploit. They each like one/two touch combinations and third man combinations and prefer heavy tactical positional instructions on their players rather than giving them freedom to move how they like. The idea of adding a higher defensive line and more aggressive press is a clear evolution for Chelsea and one Conte himself is showing a bit more of this season.
 
RooneyLegend said:
They can obviously change the way they play.
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Highly improbable. Since Jose's first spell, Chelsea has played with not losing as a priority rather than winning. I think that mentality now runs through the club with all the support staff and youth squads etc.
 
AshfordLad said:
Highly improbable. Since Jose's first spell, Chelsea has played with not losing as a priority rather than winning. I think that mentality now runs through the club with all the support staff and youth squads etc.
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it's amazing that that "not losing mentality" lead to a record number of wins in consecutive seasons, only beaten last year by conte...
 
AshfordLad said:
Highly improbable. Since Jose's first spell, Chelsea has played with not losing as a priority rather than winning. I think that mentality now runs through the club with all the support staff and youth squads etc.
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Ancelotti's 2009/2010 team played with a "not losing as a priority rather than winning" mentality?
 
Also, for the left back position, would any Chelsea fan be averse to bringing in one of the Sessegnon twins?
 
ixa67 said:
Ancelotti's 2009/2010 team played with a "not losing as a priority rather than winning" mentality?
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That's one season out of 14.

Other said:
Also, for the left back position, would any Chelsea fan be averse to bringing in one of the Sessegnon twins?
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I doubt Chelsea can afford to buy him. Spurs tried this summer and fulham asked for £50m
 
AshfordLad said:
That's one season out of 14.

I doubt Chelsea can afford to buy him. Spurs tried this summer and fulham asked for £50m
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Which one? Steven or Ryan? We did offer £60m for Sandro so the money is there. Just unsure whether we would gamble on a younger talent with world class potential.
 
Other said:
Which one? Steven or Ryan? We did offer £60m for Sandro so the money is there. Just unsure whether we would gamble on a younger talent with world class potential.
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Ryan Sessegnon. If the board offered £60m for Sandro then Ryan Sessegnon would not be worth £30m in their minds. I am not getting my hopes high given that we consistently fail to get such players (Shaw, Stones etc.)

United will buy him for something around £50m and we will probably sign Shaw on a free.
 
AshfordLad said:
Ryan Sessegnon. If the board offered £60m for Sandro then Ryan Sessegnon would not be worth £30m in their minds. I am not getting my hopes high given that we consistently fail to get such players (Shaw, Stones etc.)

United will buy him for something around £50m and we will probably sign Shaw on a free.
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Yeah, true. Shaw isn't a bad player to have though. I still believe he has the talent to become a top class player and has just stagnated a bit at United. He has all the attributes to be a great player if we do try and sign him. I cant think of many other left backs we could sign, what with Gouhlams injury.
 
Other said:
Yeah, true. Shaw isn't a bad player to have though. I still believe he has the talent to become a top class player and has just stagnated a bit at United. He has all the attributes to be a great player if we do try and sign him. I cant think of many other left backs we could sign, what with Gouhlams injury.
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If we are looking for rehabilitation project, we could get Jordi Alba on the cheap.
What I would want the board to do though is stir up the pot for Danny Rose properly this time. Even if we don't sign him, fecking with spurs alone would make it worthwhile.
 
AshfordLad said:
If we are looking for rehabilitation project, we could get Jordi Alba on the cheap.
What I would want the board to do though is stir up the pot for Danny Rose properly this time. Even if we don't sign him, fecking with spurs alone would make it worthwhile.
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I would hate having Jordi Alba at Chelsea, I think signings should have some semblance of long term planning to them and his signing is the anti-thesis of long term planning. Rose would be nice but completely unfeasible and with our history would likely lead to us not signing anybody and being left short handed once again. Is Sandro still a possibility?
 
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