Manchester City 17/18 discussion | "If you're here for the Champions clap your hands" (#6505)

[BobbyManc]

So stupid how many games they cram into such a short space of time. It's detrimental to the quality of the football and it favours the big sides who can rotate players and still have a very good side out.

 

[Javi]

These weaker teams need to keep countering when they're sitting deep. You can't stay in your own half for 45 minutes and not expect City to score. It's just so fecking dumb.

West Ham did just that? IIRC they had at least three decent chances from a counter in the second half. Two of them were proper feck ups from Mangala but still it wasn't like they were not trying.

I have only seen the second half. I thought City played fairly well, tying West Ham into their box, getting their best players into dangerous positions and creating chances. Only issue I felt is that the defence didn't have that flair of confidence in them (they also played Mangala and Delph though).

 

[Park Life]

Next weeks game will have a massive impact on the title race. A loss for either side is unthinkable but for City, riding high at the top of the table, the implications and the potential knock-on affect following a loss will be significantly worse.

Totally disagree.....a loss and we are still 5 points clear, a loss for United and your 11 points behind, how is it significantly worse for City to lose the Derby?
Surely it is significantly worse for United to lose next weekend?

 

[M18CTID]

If you think referees consistently add that amount of stoppage time, within the stoppage time then you’re deluded. The amount of time wasting in injury time which teams get away with is massive. Hence, you were lucky the ref accounted for it on this occasion.

Are you ignoring all the other examples from the posts before mine too? Why is it so hard for you to accept you have been lucky on occasion?

Awww, diddums.

I seem to remember a Manchester derby back in 2009 where a certain team scored a winning goal in added on added time. I bet you weren’t complaining then and I bet you weren’t skriking about being lucky either.

 

[Manchester Dan]

Next weeks game will have a massive impact on the title race. A loss for either side is unthinkable but for City, riding high at the top of the table, the implications and the potential knock-on affect following a loss will be significantly worse.

This makes no sense to me. City are 8 points clear, it’s that exact fact that affords City the luxury to lose this game. Even losing the gap only drops to 5, which to put into perspective would be the same amount of points lost in 16 games at that point in the season.

The implication of a loss is FAR worse for United than for City. Undebatable.

 

[Varun]

Yup. Odd logic.

 

[kps88]

A loss for us will be okay on Sunday. If we win, we will get complacent. If we lose, we will become even more determined. And it's the opposite for City or something.

 

[haram]

We lose and its over. It will probably be a draw.

 

[Random Task]

Totally disagree.....a loss and we are still 5 points clear, a loss for United and your 11 points behind, how is it significantly worse for City to lose the Derby?
Surely it is significantly worse for United to lose next weekend?

This makes no sense to me. City are 8 points clear, it’s that exact fact that affords City the luxury to lose this game. Even losing the gap only drops to 5, which to put into perspective would be the same amount of points lost in 16 games at that point in the season.

The implication of a loss is FAR worse for United than for City. Undebatable.

Allow me to explain - I clearly didn't do a very good job of that last night!

As it stands, City are currently 8 points clear at the top of the table. A win for them will merely see an extension to an already insurmountable lead that, in effect, will end the title race there and then. No surprise there as City were the overwhelming favorites to win the league before the game even kicked off.

The ramifications following a loss will be far more significant, it could prove to be the precursor to a collapse that will turn the title race entirely on it's head. A possible 11 point lead reduced to that of 5 points will see the pressure gauge rise exponentially and the players resolve tested to heights never experienced before.

The chasing pack will see hope, morale will rise, performance levels will increase. Belief is a powerful ally, without it players lack both drive and direction. They have to believe, beyond all reasonable doubt, that City can indeed be stopped and the only way that will happen is if United come out of the derby victorious.

 

[Fortitude]

If City do drop points then I think it’s really important they get back to winning ways quickly, and we have the fixtures to do it. In theory heading in to these games after United with a 5 point gap is a great place to be, but it would be very important to not let it rock the boat. A draw or win at weekend and it’s a great result.

10th Dec - United (A). 2nd
13th Dec - Swansea (A). 20th
16th Dec - Spurs (H). 6th
23rd Dec - Bournemouth (H). 14th
27th Dec - Newcastle (A). 15th
31st Dec - Crystal Palace (A). 18th
2nd Jan - Watford (H). 8th

But do you really? Your last four games have been against sides some thought you would hammer with ease as they were all lower-downs in the table, but as has been shown, they've worked you for all you are worth by playing in a way that puts the entire onus of getting a win on you.

Apart from United, Spurs and Bournemouth (because they literally cannot play in any other way) you're going into a bunch of games against sides who are going to serve up a lot more of what you've been getting whilst tweaking and modifying things in their own game after assessing your vulnerabilities through teams you've already played.

As I said before, you're the nut everyone wants to crack, which means you're getting the United treatment everywhere you go with every side seeing you as a cup final of sorts. In this instance that obviously means as much balls-to-the-wall defending as possible and to unlock that, De Bruyne and Silva have to keep playing, which in turn is going to lead to even more cumulative fatigue.

Not playing B.Silva for all this time lends questions to whether he's adjusted to the league enough to step in and cover for either of your playmakers at a time when you're going to be playing consecutive cup finals against teams who are well-oiled in their prep about how they're going to approach the game.

Ironically, you might have an easier time of it if that fixture list was filled with bigger teams who might fancy their chances of playing you in more open games where they give you more space to play into and take the entire onus for breaking them down off your shoulders.

If you do battle through those fixtures unscathed, you actually deserve the title. No question. I think it's going to Traveller you further, which will make itself apparent before the run-in even starts.

Pep will have to rotate a hell of a lot and get some rest into your key providers if that is to be prevented, which really doesn't look like his thing.

You could, of course, play a different way - one that relies on less intensity and key sprints/resets, but that, too, is un-Peppish, so it will be interesting to see how things unfold for you.

It's a wonder if those chasing can capitalise on any of the above - your points buffer is enormous - but at the same time, I wonder how much that cumulative fatigue could go on to derail your season at large. You're going to be a team to beat in the CL, too, and that's a whole different set of pitfalls to what you have in the league.

I'm actually curious to see if you are a house of cards, or whether you can navigate the rest of such a unique season unscathed enough to be in contention for everything come the end of it.

PS: Kompany is a ticking timebomb bound to get suspended if he keeps playing - might even be a red next week. Intrigued to see what Pep does when that happens if Stones is not in the frame. You're already vulnerable aerially on set pieces or otherwise - without Kompany, you're going to face a lot more headers on goal.

 

[M113FF]

Allow me to explain - I clearly didn't do a very good job of that last night!

As it stands, City are currently 9 points clear at the top of the table. A win for them will merely see an extension to an already insurmountable lead that, in effect, will end the title race there and then. No surprise there as City were the overwhelming favorites to win the league before the game even kicked off.

The ramifications following a loss will be far more significant, it could prove to be the precursor to a collapse that will turn the title race entirely on it's head. A possible 12 point lead reduced to that of 6 points will see the pressure gauge rise exponentially and the players resolve tested to heights never experienced before.

The chasing pack will see hope, morale will rise, performance levels will increase. Belief is a powerful ally, without it players lack both drive and direction. They have to believe, beyond all reasonable doubt, that City can indeed be stopped and the only way that will happen is if United come out of the derby victorious.

Just picking up on one point - the odds before the season started. Yes, City were favourites but not overwhelming favourites. The prices were around City 9/5, United 7/2, Chelsea 7/2. In probability terms that is about 35% City, and 22% United and 22% Chelsea.

 

[Thunderhead]

But do you really? Your last four games have been against sides some thought you would hammer with ease as they were all lower-downs in the table, but as has been shown, they've worked you for all you are worth by playing in a way that puts the entire onus of getting a win on you.

Apart from United, Spurs and Bournemouth (because they literally cannot play in any other way) you're going into a bunch of games against sides who are going to serve up a lot more of what you've been getting whilst tweaking and modifying things in their own game after assessing your vulnerabilities through teams you've already played.

As I said before, you're the nut everyone wants to crack, which means you're getting the United treatment everywhere you go with every side seeing you as a cup final of sorts. In this instance that obviously means as much balls-to-the-wall defending as possible and to unlock that, De Bruyne and Silva have to keep playing, which in turn is going to lead to even more cumulative fatigue.

Not playing B.Silva for all this time lends questions to whether he's adjusted to the league enough to step in and cover for either of your playmakers at a time when you're going to be playing consecutive cup finals against teams who are well-oiled in their prep about how they're going to approach the game.

Ironically, you might have an easier time of it if that fixture list was filled with bigger teams who might fancy their chances of playing you in more open games where they give you more space to play into and take the entire onus for breaking them down off your shoulders.

If you do battle through those fixtures unscathed, you actually deserve the title. No question. I think it's going to Traveller you further, which will make itself apparent before the run-in even starts.

Pep will have to rotate a hell of a lot and get some rest into your key providers if that is to be prevented, which really doesn't look like his thing.

You could, of course, play a different way - one that relies on less intensity and key sprints/resets, but that, too, is un-Peppish, so it will be interesting to see how things unfold for you.

It's a wonder if those chasing can capitalise on any of the above - your points buffer is enormous - but at the same time, I wonder how much that cumulative fatigue could go on to derail your season at large. You're going to be a team to beat in the CL, too, and that's a whole different set of pitfalls to what you have in the league.

I'm actually curious to see if you are a house of cards, or whether you can navigate the rest of such a unique season unscathed enough to be in contention for everything come the end of it.

PS: Kompany is a ticking timebomb bound to get suspended if he keeps playing - might even be a red next week. Intrigued to see what Pep does when that happens if Stones is not in the frame. You're already vulnerable aerially on set pieces or otherwise - without Kompany, you're going to face a lot more headers on goal.

I see where you're coming from but teams have to come out and attack us to get set pieces, I think all of West Ham's corners were in the first half yesterday and they ended up with 4 in total, Southampton had 5 and I think 2 of those were in quick succession, Huddersfield had 3 and again 2 of those were in quick succession, Leicester had 1, so defensively I agree we will concede from set pieces but I'm not too worried by that as we don't concede too many corners, apart from yesterday where we were pretty awful we've still been creating plenty of clear cut chances just not always finishing them so even if we lose against you and draw a couple of the next 7 league games you would still need to win all your 6 remaining games just to be 1 point behind. Aguero can't be this bad for the rest of the season, can he?

 

[Random Task]

Just picking up on one point - the odds before the season started. Yes, City were favourites but not overwhelming favourites. The prices were around City 9/5, United 7/2, Chelsea 7/2. In probability terms that is about 35% City, and 22% United and 22% Chelsea.

I was talking in terms of the current league standings. With a 8 point lead going in to the game, City are the undoubted favourites to win the league.

 

[Thunderhead]

I was talking in terms of the current league standings. With a 9 point lead going in to the game, City are the undoubted favourites to win the league.

8 points, it's only 8 points

 

[Fortitude]

I see where you're coming from but teams have to come out and attack us to get set pieces, I think all of West Ham's corners were in the first half yesterday and they ended up with 4 in total, Southampton had 5 and I think 2 of those were in quick succession, Huddersfield had 3 and again 2 of those were in quick succession, Leicester had 1, so defensively I agree we will concede from set pieces but I'm not too worried by that as we don't concede too many corners, apart from yesterday where we were pretty awful we've still been creating plenty of clear cut chances just not always finishing them so even if we lose against you and draw a couple of the next 7 league games you would still need to win all your 6 remaining games just to be 1 point behind. Aguero can't be this bad for the rest of the season, can he?

But, there's a template being formed now - one for others to follow, so you're going to see more and more modifications to it as it becomes fine tuned, and without Kompany (I really do expect him to get himself suspended sooner rather than later) the intensity on set pieces is bound to increase because everyone knows you've barely any means to defend yourself.

What I'm saying is that i expect things to get harder and harder for you as teams adopt these tactics with regularity against a side who are already showing signs of fatigue.

The finishing issue is a fair point as you are still getting chances, but for how long can KDB and Silva keep that up if they keep getting worked as they currently are?

To the bolded: not necessarily. A set piece can be earned within 2-4 touches from keeper to shot on goal without many players even having to break rank.

 

[M113FF]

Sorry misread. Yep, City currently about 1/8 and United 10/1.

 

[crossy1686]

Just picking up on one point - the odds before the season started. Yes, City were favourites but not overwhelming favourites. The prices were around City 9/5, United 7/2, Chelsea 7/2. In probability terms that is about 35% City, and 22% United and 22% Chelsea.

Although City do deserve some of the gushing over them that's been going on since August, last time I checked, no one hands out Premier League medals in November.

Everyone was doing exactly the same thing last season and once players started getting tired the wheels fell off. City have had some big performances in the last couple of games but we're at the point now where teams are starting to work them out and playing with that kind of intensity 3 times a week isn't sustainable. Mentally and physically, those players will hit a wall over Christmas. It will start with an innocuous Champions League defeat and follow them into domestic fixtures and that's when the panic will set in. You start dropping points and your nearest rival starts closing the gap, we'll see what they're really made of and how Pep handles the pressure, because we all know he doesn't hide it well.

Another point, United have won 11 points from late goals this season, City have won 9. We're in championship form.

 

[Random Task]

8 points, it's only 8 points

Better still.

 

[Thunderhead]

But, there's a template being formed now - one for others to follow, so you're going to see more and more modifications to it as it becomes fine tuned, and without Kompany (I really do expect him to get himself suspended sooner rather than later) the intensity on set pieces is bound to increase because everyone knows you've barely any means to defend yourself.

What I'm saying is that i expect things to get harder and harder for you as teams adopt these tactics with regularity against a side who are already showing signs of fatigue.

The finishing issue is a fair point as you are still getting chances, but for how long can KDB and Silva keep that up if they keep getting worked as they currently are?

To the bolded: not necessarily. A set piece can be earned within 2-4 touches from keeper to shot on goal without many players even having to break rank.

true, but that's where Guardiola will earn his money, he'll also tweak things.

Just checked and we've conceded 38 corners this season, we've only conceded 9 in the league and 2 have come from set pieces so it's not a major concern just yet but it is a concern. The big miss in both of these has been John Stones, hopefully it'll be picked up in training this week as most the problems have caused with oppo players flicking the cross on, need to defend the front post better

 

[Thunderhead]

Another point, United have won 11 points from late goals this season, City have won 9. We're in championship form.

no you haven't, you've scored 11 late goals, and most of those have come when winning already, think only 1 changed the result from draw to win, 4 of City's have come to either draw (Everton) or win, (Bournemouth, Soton, West Ham, Huddersfield)

 

[Fortitude]

true, but that's where Guardiola will earn his money, he'll also tweak things.

Just checked and we've conceded 38 corners this season, we've only conceded 9 in the league and 2 have come from set pieces so it's not a major concern just yet but it is a concern. The big miss in both of these has been John Stones, hopefully it'll be picked up in training this week as most the problems have caused with oppo players flicking the cross on, need to defend the front post better

Can't really compare your early season form with now, though. You were unplayable for smaller teams earlier in the season as you were full of energy and had much more intensity than you can muster now. You also weren't as susceptible to aerial stuff as you are now, and will be further still, if/when Kompany is suspended/injured.

 

[YetAnotherCityFan]

City went to the Bridge and won 1-0, went to Naples and won 4-2, went to Rotterdam and won 4-0. Our away record is impeccable. Games like this are where Pep comes alive and he'll have a different plan to deal with United. Whether it works is a different matter.
For me, if City win, they'll win the title.

 

[CM]

I've actually enjoyed watching City when they've blown teams away but these last 3 games (or 4 if you count Champions League) are more frustrating than anything. On the one hand it's encouraging to see signs of them slowing down and it certainly makes them seem more beatable but this knack of coming from behind and/or scoring late winners is probably more annoying than if they were still steamrolling teams.

It's a shame Pogba's missing for the derby. I might've fancied our chances of a win had he been available.

 

[Blue doomer]

Sorry misread. Yep, City currently about 1/8 and United 10/1.

A win and we'll probably go 1/16
Draw maybe even shorten to 1/12
A loss and it'll be 2/9

Still a lot riding on this game

 

[Random Task]

City went to the Bridge and won 1-0, went to Naples and won 4-2, went to Rotterdam and won 4-0. Our away record is impeccable. Games like this are where Pep comes alive and he'll have a different plan to deal with United. Whether it works is a different matter.
For me, if City win, they'll win the title.

The latest odds from betfair: City 11/10 - United 5/2 - draw 13/5

Even with United's outstanding home record, the bookies see City as favourites to win the encounter.

Imagine if they lose.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Pep can have a plan all he wants, but his 'plan' doesn't seem to involve defending set pieces properly. I think a set piece could decide a rather tight game and I'd fancy Fellaini/Lukaku/Smalling to cause them concerns on corners and free kicks.

Jose needs to set the team up to start fast like they did v Arsenal and target Delph and Kompany with pace in behind. Kompany is a shadow of his former self and won't want Lukaku/Martial running behind him - he will try to keep it physical, but this is where our players need to be smart with the flicks and clever link up play. I can also see Lingard and Lukaku peeling off to the right hand side to have a go at Delph.

 

[Treble]

But, there's a template being formed now - one for others to follow, so you're going to see more and more modifications to it as it becomes fine tuned, and without Kompany (I really do expect him to get himself suspended sooner rather than later) the intensity on set pieces is bound to increase because everyone knows you've barely any means to defend yourself.

What I'm saying is that i expect things to get harder and harder for you as teams adopt these tactics with regularity against a side who are already showing signs of fatigue.

The finishing issue is a fair point as you are still getting chances, but for how long can KDB and Silva keep that up if they keep getting worked as they currently are?

To the bolded: not necessarily. A set piece can be earned within 2-4 touches from keeper to shot on goal without many players even having to break rank.

Silva has been rotated. Basically, he has started 1 game per week in the last month after he didn't start vs Napoli away. Most of their forwards have been rotated too. Maybe Sterling has played more but still less than, say, Lukaku. KDB has played a lot indeed. But so have Matic and Lukaku. And they are important to Jose.

City have slowed down recently. The hope is that it is something related to their style and not just poor finishing or more economical/pragmatic play. Maybe their style is not sustainable? Or they find it difficult against parked busses? Or they are mentally tired from winning 20 games in a row (a record in the entire history of English football, If I'm not mistaken). Still, it is a bit premature to project tendencies on the basis of 3 league games.

Their first 3 league games were 2:0 Brighton (0:0 before the last 20 min.), 1:1 Everton (with a late equalizer) and Bournemouth 2:1 with a very late winner. What did these results mean? Nothing. They were tired? Surely not. If you try to reveal patterns behind United's games vs Basel and Brighton just 10-15 days ago, how would these patterns look? United are clueless in attack and too static in the build-up play? The team must be knackered? And then United score 7 goals in two difficult away games and everything looks different.

Chelsea were looking very poor just a month ago, were smashed by Roma 3:0 but have won 6 of the last 7 games in the league and may go on a run. I thought they were out of the title hunt but they still have a chance.

Thing is, nobody has a clue what is going to happen. City may collapse similarly to Spurs or continue to win and break all records. Or they may amass 92 pts and still fail to win it because Jose has won 93 pts. Which is perfectly possible.

 

[Andrew Wolf]

City's vulnerability at set pieces keeps getting mentioned but there seems to be a complete ignorance towards how dangerous they look from them. Otamendi has 4 goals and Stones has 3. It'd be only fair to mention this, no?

 

[Random Task]

City's vulnerability at set pieces keeps getting mentioned but there seems to be a complete ignorance towards how dangerous they look from them. Otamendi has 4 goals and Stones has 3. It'd be only fair to mention this, no?

We are focusing on the negatives here, get with the program.

 

[Fortitude]

Silva has been rotated. Basically, he has started 1 game per week in the last month after he didn't start vs Napoli away. Most of their forwards have been rotated too. Maybe Sterling has played more but still less than, say, Lukaku. KDB has played a lot indeed. But so have Matic and Lukaku. And they are important to Jose.

City have slowed down recently. The hope is that it is something related to their style and not just poor finishing or more economical/pragmatic play. Maybe their style is not sustainable? Or they find it difficult against parked busses? Or they are mentally tired from winning 20 games in a row (a record in the entire history of English football, If I'm not mistaken). Still, it is a bit premature to project tendencies on the basis of 3 league games.

Their first 3 league games were 2:0 Brighton (0:0 before the last 20 min.), 1:1 Everton (with a late equalizer) and Bournemouth 2:1 with a very late winner. What did these results mean? Nothing. They were tired? Surely not. If you try to reveal patterns behind United's games vs Basel and Brighton just 10-15 days ago, how would these patterns look? United are clueless in attack and too static in the build-up play? The team must be knackered? And then United score 7 goals in two difficult away games and everything looks different.

Chelsea were looking very poor just a month ago, were smashed by Roma 3:0 but have won 6 of the last 7 games in the league and may go on a run. I thought they were out of the title hunt but they still have a chance.

Thing is, nobody has a clue what is going to happen. City may collapse similarly to Spurs or continue to win and break all records. Or they may amass 92 pts and still fail to win it because Jose has won 93 pts. Which is perfectly possible.

Silva is 32 soon and is heavily relied upon when he plays. He's more of the link man than anyone else so the demands upon him to deliver are immense. People point towards De Bruyne a lot more than Silva, but he's the guy that makes that whole side tick. Not saying he can't maintain the form or intensity as he obviously knows the league and has endured the festive period a few times, but things are different for City this season - the way they are being played against now is new, and the way Pep makes them play is more demanding than anything that has preceded it/him.

We don't have the intensity in what we do to the degrees that City have as their offensive actions and pressing to win the ball the back are a hallmark of Pep, so I'm not sure you can draw an equivalence with others who don't work to those requirements in terms of tiring and fatigue. We don't look as tired as them by eye, imo and a lot of that has to do with how we play compared to them. Soaking up pressure (which means a chance to catch your breath once in defensive shape) and then firing off on the break in key bursts is not as tiring and it shows.

The start of a league campaign can be scratched off more readily than results once teams are settled and showing what they're about to both the positive and negative. We've a large sample size of games now and peaks and troughs to assess. I don't think anyone believes City are opting to drag themselves through games as they've been doing. Maybe poor finishing can be blamed, but at the same time, even their manager has acknowledged that teams have changed tact and are shutting up shop in a different way to what than they were doing, which is taking more to break down they faced earlier in the season.

 

[haram]

City's vulnerability at set pieces keeps getting mentioned but there seems to be a complete ignorance towards how dangerous they look from them. Otamendi has 4 goals and Stones has 3. It'd be only fair to mention this, no?

We can deal with 2 CB's at set pieces.

 

[Gasolin]

Well, the stats say that City have conceded nine goals this season and United have also conceded nine. By your definition that means the two defences are of the exact same ability? Unless City concede this afternoon, then United's is better? Or, if City keep a clean sheet today and then win next week, then City's defence is better?

Do you know what, I think I prefer JASR's more nuanced approach to a good defence.

Apologies if my style isn't to your liking. Apologies if my English isn't to your liking. Please check who I support before asking for me to be banned.

I actually agree, the best defense includes the ability to not allow shoots or at least not have a shot on target. If the keeper is required to stop the ball, it’s still good, but there’s no way the defensive coach would be happy with that.

However to win big titles, you need an insanely good keeper.

 

[PexiGlass]

West Ham did just that? IIRC they had at least three decent chances from a counter in the second half. Two of them were proper feck ups from Mangala but still it wasn't like they were not trying.

It was the second half where West Ham changed tactic. Instead of trying to counter as in the first half they just tried too defend their box. When they dispossessed City they then proceeded to hoof it straight back to them. If they had kept playing as in the first half they would have likely scored again.

Think we can win on Sunday but alot could be down to who's in charge. Clattenberg was woeful last year, nearly as bad as Leicester away under LVG. We will need a strong Ref who is not intimidated by Pep & who won't fall for the City players histrionics. We are known as a physical team so they will be looking to go down at every opportunity, especially in our box. This may sway the Ref. Will also be interesting if we are leading by the odd goal at 90 Mins how much injury time is played. We are due a few decisions in the Derby, with the bad luck we've suffered so far this season this will hopefully be the game where our luck turns & City's runs out.

 

[Treble]

Silva is 32 soon and is heavily relied upon when he plays. He's more of the link man than anyone else so the demands upon him to deliver are immense. People point towards De Bruyne a lot more than Silva, but he's the guy that makes that whole side tick. Not saying he can't maintain the form or intensity as he obviously knows the league and has endured the festive period a few times, but things are different for City this season - the way they are being played against now is new, and the way Pep makes them play is more demanding than anything that has preceded it/him.

We don't have the intensity in what we do to the degrees that City have as their offensive actions and pressing to win the ball the back are a hallmark of Pep, so I'm not sure you can draw an equivalence with others who don't work to those requirements in terms of tiring and fatigue. We don't look as tired as them by eye, imo and a lot of that has to do with how we play compared to them. Soaking up pressure (which means a chance to catch your breath once in defensive shape) and then firing off on the break in key bursts is not as tiring and it shows.

The start of a league campaign can be scratched off more readily than results once teams are settled and showing what they're about to both the positive and negative. We've a large sample size of games now and peaks and troughs to assess. I don't think anyone believes City are opting to drag themselves through games as they've been doing. Maybe poor finishing can be blamed, but at the same time, even their manager has acknowledged that teams have changed tact and are shutting up shop in a different way to what than they were doing, which is taking more to break down they faced earlier in the season.

Agree with most of what you say. But Matic and Lukaku haven't been in top form recently and it could be down to having been played a lot. I don't think we looked very fresh vs Arsenal either. We conceded 33 atempts for goal, they were moving the ball around our box without much problerms, partly because we weren't able to match their intensity. Heroic saves from DDG don't change that fact. One rarely sees 33 goal attempts against one team in a derby game.

Still, expect both teams to be fresh for the derby and to run a lot.

 

[haram]

It was the second half where West Ham changed tactic. Instead of trying to counter as in the first half they just tried too defend their box. When they dispossessed City they then proceeded to hoof it straight back to them. If they had kept playing as in the first half they would have likely scored again.

Think we can win on Sunday but alot could be down to who's in charge. Clattenberg was woeful last year, nearly as bad as Leicester away under LVG. We will need a strong Ref who is not intimidated by Pep & who won't fall for the City players histrionics. We are known as a physical team so they will be looking to go down at every opportunity, especially in our box. This may sway the Ref. Will also be interesting if we are leading by the odd goal at 90 Mins how much injury time is played. We are due a few decisions in the Derby, with the bad luck we've suffered so far this season this will hopefully be the game where our luck turns & City's runs out.

I think West Ham just got tired tbf to them.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

City's vulnerability at set pieces keeps getting mentioned but there seems to be a complete ignorance towards how dangerous they look from them. Otamendi has 4 goals and Stones has 3. It'd be only fair to mention this, no?

Stones has 0 Premier League goals and Otamendi has 3 (West Ham, Burnley and the 6-0 hammering of Watford). Stones scored his 3 in a weak Champions League group, 2 being against Feyenoord. I think it's fair to say there is a different style of defending in the PL. Nobody is being ignorant but City are not prolific in the air and United can defend better than any of them teams I mentioned.

 

[Stocar]

People read too much into these recent few games. Yeah, they've been off form, their attack can be wasteful and sometimes they concede goals too easily. But those are the problems of all dominant possession based teams. In the end, they still create loads of chances and allow very few. Their main problem in the last few games has been getting that first goal, and all the teams are bound to have that problem from time to time.

 

[Pacificgi]

Theyre struggling atm, they have difficulty getting past teams they should beat comfortably so they will definately drop points over the next month.

As good as de bruyne is, silva is their best player for me. Im sick of the amount of times he seems to find space easily at the top end of the pitch and seems to have so much time on the ball. He does it so easily he brings other players into play and makes city constantly on the front foot. People will say fernandinho allows the attacking players to play, but nothing more frustrating than seeing silva hog the ball so easily without a challenge 30 yards from your own goal.

 

[AN17]

It's a bummer 3 of their players yesterday were one yellow away from suspension and none of them will miss the derby while Pogba sees a straight red dished out. Luck is favouring them this season, but tbf they have been brave and adventurous with their football I guess.

 

[villain]

They're not going to keep this same momentum for the rest of the year, especially if they want to do well in the Cups & CL too? They simply don't have the depth for it, so something will make way.

And I don't think a PL win and no improvement in CL will be considered a success for Pep.