No but does anything ever go well with a tory govt?
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Not condescending, just bewildered that you think Brexit will help "get rid of the Tories for good". They arent going anywhere, if Brexit fails they will just blame everyone else.
delusions of grandeur 
The referendum?
What is this hysterical nonsense? How on earth will brexit "destroy" anyone's chances of "ever living or working abroad"? A country reduced to a pile of rubble and people eating rats?
Get a grip man you sound positively rabid.
It's a tad ott of course @Barca84 but moving abroad outside of the EU is still a real struggle, for example I have married friends, one Swede, one Aussie and after 8 months of applications etc they still haven't gotten the ok to move to Australia. It's a ballache, and as I say, they are married.
Whereas I have lived in England, Germany, France, Norway and Sweden during my life and haven't had to do anything other than turn up and register myself as being in the country. For me, being an EU citizen is an absolute dream, hence why my Swedish Citizenship application went in the very next day after the Brexit vote.
That’s exactly my point though. They’re so deep in the hole in a mess of entirely their making that I don’t see any way of them getting out. In this age of information they simply can no longer use the right wing media to twist that if the last election is anything to go by.
Their next leader hopeful, Boris, was at the forefront of Brexit, people are not forgetting the £350m bus and the internet will make sure it’s not forgotten.
The media overlords no longer control the show for the masses, maybe for the 55+ but 18-55 don’t rely on reading the Sun every morning as their source of information.
I think you are going to be sorely disappointed. Say what you want about the Tories but they know how to get into power.
Look over the Atlantic to see what the shift away from "media overlords" has done.
Nevermind
Yes, I'm sure that decision is on the top of Camerons cv
Was a long stressful press day yesterday.I'll give you an example.
My son is a water polo player with Australian and British citizenship. To play for the top paying club in the world, Pro Recco in Italy, you need to be an EU citizen as there is a 2 player quota for non-EU players which pretty much means that you have to be Messi/Ronaldo quality to play for them if you aren't an EU citizen. There are very few clubs that pay well throughout the roster so EU citizenship is almost essential to play professionally. So Brexit has hugely damaged his chances of playing professionally.
I am also a joint Australian and British citizen so I will realistically no longer have the option to live and working Europe. I won't even be able to retire there.
If Davis survives this week I'll be shocked. It's just pure incompetence and dishonesty at every turn and he's getting found out now.
We need the goverment to collapse and a halt on Brexit until the new goverment gets its house in order.
After posting that the next thing Davis says is
"He did not read them because he did not want to take responsibility for deciding exactly what was and was not released himself." I mean ffs
We need the goverment to collapse and a halt on Brexit until the new goverment gets its house in order.
After posting that the next thing Davis says is
"He did not read them because he did not want to take responsibility for deciding exactly what was and was not released himself." I mean ffs
That's all we voted on Remain or Leave. They didn't even ask us what Brexit would mean. There was no vote on soft or hard Brexit.
If i were to apply a similar logic to othr elections, then no leaders of their parties could break faith with impunity. Theresa May and the Tories would be beyond ridicule for the 2017 campaign, for example.
As you understand the concept what does a 'soft Brexit' represent? Moreover, whose hopes could t objectively be saiid to satisfy above all, Remain or Leave?
Fair enough. I do however, think it is intellectually dishonest to argue that a 'soft Brexit' is respectful of the result. We both know which side of the debate such an outcome benefits the most. It is tantamount to the 48% having won the vote, in so far as the ideological and political implications are concerned (like a knowin guility person somehow escaping a charge of just verdict).
Apoloogie for not gettingback to your earlier queston on NI, qutie a lot of turnover in here.
The island of Ireland was always going to require some nuance; it already does in other areas of law after all. The idea of NI remaining in the Customs Union was floated some months ago and it didn't strike me as a terrible compromise, not given the strictures of the situation. May should have had the ruling parties as closely involved as possible mind you, so any failre to do so can only reflect rather appallingly on her. Personally, i didn't see the rush to make a declaration at all. If Brussels continued its refusal to discuss trade matters then we walk away for a month or two and let things sit.
Jip is a real good egg, but he's fallen off his wall here i do agree. There are Brits working in places outside of the EU everyday.
Considering the competence and likely intent of the other political parties, the Tories are clearly the least worst option.
There had been too many lies, populism and posturing by the Brexiters and shit is hitting fan. With Farage retiring from Uk politics the blame will drop flat on the Tory party especially boris, fox, davies and co.
In such circumstances politicians will probably opt for a government meltdown. Hence certainity (ie brexit was stupid and voters were mislead to vote for it) will be replaced with doubt. Rest assured the brexitersthat the problem with brexit wasnt the concept irself but its implementation. That should give a lifeline on their political career and a fighting chance to win government in 2 GE time
Im not an expert of uk/eu politics but i worked with politicians. These gaffes, rebellions and absent mindedness is not incompetence but people forcing themselves out from a sinking ship before it drags them down.
In such circumstances politicians will probably opt for a government meltdown. Hence certainity (ie brexit was stupid and voters were mislead to vote for it) will be replaced with doubt. Rest assured the brexitersthat the problem with brexit wasnt the concept irself but its implementation. That should give a lifeline on their political career and a fighting chance to win government in 2 GE time
Im not an expert of uk/eu politics but i worked with politicians. These gaffes, rebellions and absent mindedness is not incompetence but people forcing themselves out from a sinking ship before it drags them down.
So its going well? You are happy with progress / direction?
Genuinely interested as i fear i am in a bit of a Remain echo chamber at times.
hahaha we're so fecked
Wherever you stand on Brexit, rational or nuts, Davis cannot stay in his position. This is outrageous.
Most leave voters seem frustrated it’s taken 18 months to slowly edge towards the only viable option of the Efta/EEA agreement. We’ll get there in the end but it’s alarming the amount of people in government and media who can’t grasp the basics of any of this.
Guardian live feed said:
More excellent news for remoaners as government inches closer to making no changes.
Lib Dem statement said:
Until 2010 they couldn't buy an election. After the dust settles on austerity, I'm expecting another period in the wilderness for these assholes. You can't get away with just being nasty for years in UK politics.
It didn't start well, not with the time they had to prepare the initial basis for an agreement. I would cite the citizens' rights confusion in particular: even with the ECJ off the tble from our PoV, we ought to have made some guarantees to thsoe already resident here (unilaterally if so required). Additionally, the Government should have identitied a number of schemes for which we hold continued interst and given then an amount we'd be prepared to pay. I'd have been more forthwright so far as the divorce bill went though, as the two sides must be in possession of the same flippin data. Were i to sense that they doubted our conviction, a holiday from negotations would be announced.
The general election was a fiasco of course, an event which must be looked upon as damaging to the process.
So all a bit too mealy-mouthed for my liking, but you'd trust the other political parties even less.
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Really? You trust the Tories the most after this fiasco?
Feckin hell lads, this is insane today.
Just caught up on the Davis debacle. What. The. feck.
Surely he has to be shown in contempt of parliament for this?! Although I notice that little rat Reese-Mogg appears to have abandoned his position and gone back to supporting the government line, so it'll be interesting to see how many Torys continue to stand up for parliamentary primacy.
Surely he has to be shown in contempt of parliament for this?! Although I notice that little rat Reese-Mogg appears to have abandoned his position and gone back to supporting the government line, so it'll be interesting to see how many Torys continue to stand up for parliamentary primacy.
Pretty sure they've done the assessment.
It's just too politically sensitive to release.
Davis must not be allowed to get away with this.
It's just too politically sensitive to release.
Davis must not be allowed to get away with this.
Really? You trust the Tories the most after this fiasco?
As a Leave voter, someone who believes that this seperation is right for the country over the long term, how oculd i possibly trust any of the others to bring such about? They are either Brussels' loyalists or more confused than the incumbent players on the scene.
Even the Daily Mail are losing their shit over this. If Davis survives the week it'll be a miracle.
It's about more than Brexit mate. Sole governance by Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, David Davies, Priti Patel, IDS and co sounds good to you does it?
They are proven liars, cheats and general cnuts who all put personal gain before the good of the country. And yet you still believe that the Brexit they seek will benefit the country long term, despite the fact they have had 18 months to come up with a shred of evidence that it will and have come up short.
It's beyond belief frankly.
Favourite internet comment so far..
"I would summarise David Davis' evidence to the Brexit Committee as:
"My dog would have eaten my homework, if I had done it. And if I had a dog."
"I would summarise David Davis' evidence to the Brexit Committee as:
"My dog would have eaten my homework, if I had done it. And if I had a dog."
They take us for fools.
Of course they did. Numerous administrations need them and are autonomous enough to not wait for politicians. The chances are that there are half a dozen of analysis.
'Enemies of the people'.
Juvenile but made me chuckle.
The more you read of his explanations to the commitee the worse it gets.
"I'm not a fan of economic models because they have all proven wrong" yeah no point bothering then
He's going to be held in contempt for sure but even May should be implicated in this.
"I'm not a fan of economic models because they have all proven wrong" yeah no point bothering then
He's going to be held in contempt for sure but even May should be implicated in this.