Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

  • Total voters
    194
  • Poll closed .
Adisa said:
Pretty sure they've done the assessment.
It's just too politically sensitive to release.
Davis must not be allowed to get away with this.
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They'd have to have.



If other countries were prepping to that extent before the referendum even happened then there's no way the UK didn't do extensive assesment. Even accepting that these politicians are inept, they can't force everyone else to be inept too. He's talking shite.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
It didn't start well, not with the time they had to prepare the initial basis for an agreement. I would cite the citizens' rights confusion in particular: even with the ECJ off the tble from our PoV, we ought to have made some guarantees to thsoe already resident here (unilaterally if so required). Additionally, the Government should have identitied a number of schemes for which we hold continued interst and given then an amount we'd be prepared to pay. I'd have been more forthwright so far as the divorce bill went though, as the two sides must be in possession of the same flippin data. Were i to sense that they doubted our conviction, a holiday from negotations would be announced.

The general election was a fiasco of course, an event which must be looked upon as damaging to the process.

So all a bit too mealy-mouthed for my liking, but you'd the trust the other political parties even less.
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Its depressing that this is the best negotiation we can pull off.
 
Pexbo said:
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Juvenile but made me chuckle.
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:lol:
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Fair enough. I do however, think it is intellectually dishonest to argue that a 'soft Brexit' is respectful of the result. We both know which side of the debate such an outcome benefits the most. It is tantamount to the 48% having won the vote, in so far as the ideological and political implications are concerned (like a knowin guility person somehow escaping a charge of just verdict).
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There is nothing intellectually dishonest about it as there is nothing to be dishonest about other than your own assumptions. A soft Brexit is still a Brexit so the 52% get what they want as well. Reality is, it's a vanilla option and given we have had a 50-50 split here pretty much, a vanilla option is the one that makes sense. (you would never fully convict a man because only 52% of the jury was convinced of his guilt)
 
“Good journalist, unfairly criticised”



Calls IDS, Mogg and Bone well organised
 
Still, doesn't matter a jot to the brexiteers. We should still 'get out now' or 'walk away, no deal'.

This genuinely shouldn't be allowed to go on like this. Leaving is bad enough, but with these clowns in charge? We're fecked.
 
Oscie said:
Their position still seems to be exit of CU and SM. Though his MPs would rather this change the leadership position is hard Brexit in all but name.
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He has been lying to Parliament, it doesnt matter what their position is!
 
To be honest, these are good developments. I was afraid it would all come out too late but the scale of the incompetence is such that people are more likely to notice it now as opposed to a drip feeding of bad news.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
  • Hammond confirms cabinet has not had a specific discussion about the final Brexit outcome it wants, the so-called “end state”.
Beyond words
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I do enjoy that he purposefully undermines May at every cost. He always gives the Tory line before adding something that makes May and Davis look like idiots
 
This is unacceptable for both sides, remainers and brexiteers.

I hope there is some crazy long-play going on, but I don’t think these lot are smart enough for that.

Not sure who I am more annoyed at; the people in charge or the others on the sidelines just watching it melt down (Reece-Mogg, Boris etc). Step in FFS!
 
Member 5225 said:
This is unacceptable for both sides, remainers and brexiteers.

I hope there is some crazy long-play going on, but I don’t think these lot are smart enough for that.

Not sure who I am more annoyed at; the people in charge or the others on the sidelines just watching it melt down (Reece-Mogg, Boris etc). Step in FFS!
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Isn't Johnson also in charge?
 
C3Pique said:
It's about more than Brexit mate. Sole governance by Boris Johnson, Liam Fox, David Davies, Priti Patel, IDS and co sounds good to you does it?

They are proven liars, cheats and general cnuts who all put personal gain before the good of the country. And yet you still believe that the Brexit they seek will benefit the country long term, despite the fact they have had 18 months to come up with a shred of evidence that it will and have come up short.

It's beyond belief frankly.
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Securing Brexit is this Government's primary task, and for good or ill they are the only show in town. I know we have a lot of Labour supporters on this forum but there's no basis for believing the party would do its duty any better. Brexit notwithstanding, Corbyn is still to make his ums add up and May would be removed before any future election.


FlawlessThaw said:
There is nothing intellectually dishonest about it as there is nothing to be dishonest about other than your own assumptions. A soft Brexit is still a Brexit so the 52% get what they want as well. Reality is, it's a vanilla option and given we have had a 50-50 split here pretty much, a vanilla option is the one that makes sense. (you would never fully convict a man because only 52% of the jury was convinced of his guilt)
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How is remaining a member of the Single Market and Customs Union 'still a Brexit'? For all intents and purposes the view of Leave voters will have been totally disregarded (sort of how the EU Ref became a reality).
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Securing Brexit is this Government's primary task, and for good or ill they are the only show in town. I know we have a lot of Labour supporters on this forum but there's no basis for believing the party would do its duty any better. Brexit notwithstanding, Corbyn is still to make his ums add up and May would be removed before any future election.
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In that case, it's done. The only thing needed was to notify their EU partners.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Securing Brexit is this Government's primary task, and for good or ill they are the only show in town. I know we have a lot of Labour supporters on this forum but there's no basis for believing the party would do its duty any better. Brexit notwithstanding, Corbyn is still to make his ums add up and May would be removed before any future election.

How is remaining a member of the Single Market and Customs Union 'still a Brexit'? For all intents and purposes the view of Leave voters will have been totally disregarded (sort of how the EU Ref became a reality).
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No Labour supporter here,
It's very simple : just go , pay what you owe, leave the SM and CU, you know that means : a hard Irish Border and you know that the City will lose its Passporting rights and you know you will revert to WTO rules. Congratulations, is that what you voted for.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
How is remaining a member of the Single Market and Customs Union 'still a Brexit'? For all intents and purposes the view of Leave voters will have been totally disregarded (sort of how the EU Ref became a reality).
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It’s exactly what people voted for, and nothing more. The ballot said EU, not single market/customs union.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
How is remaining a member of the Single Market and Customs Union 'still a Brexit'? For all intents and purposes the view of Leave voters will have been totally disregarded (sort of how the EU Ref became a reality).
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Because we would have left the European Union which was what the referendum was about! The EU isn't simply the Single Market and Customs Union. We can't really go on about the made up fantasies about what Brexit was from Leave voters in hindsight.
 
Xeno said:
It’s exactly what people voted for, and nothing more. The ballot said EU, not single market/customs union.
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Contrary to the aspersions of many Remainers, I do actually grant those on the oppsoing side with a degree of intelligence. So to claim that a reprsentative bulk of Leave voters were intent on maintaining the status quo, is either lying to yourself or lying to me.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
If you want to be obtuse, fair enough.
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In which way am I being obtuse? Securing brexit literally equates to sending the withdrawal letter which has been done earlier this year, the rest has nothing to do with securing it.

Edit:

What I mean is that, if your interpretation of Brexit is the correct one then the government delivered it because it's an unilateral action, you just have to withdraw and then there is the two years until the official end of all treaties.
Now, if Brexit is something else then there is a need to secure it, but in that case it's one of the version of "soft" Brexit and no one really knows what that term means.
 
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Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Contrary to the aspersions of many Remainers, I do actually grant those on the oppsoing side with a degree of intelligence. So to claim that a reprsentative bulk of Leave voters were intent on maintaining the status quo, is either lying to yourself or lying to me.
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I don't think you can clarify what the bulk of Leave voters were intending on. Even if we were to believe you personally represent the views of a "bulk" of Leave voters, then that wouldn't be a majority of the country.

You and the rest of Leave should have proposed a clearer question outlining what Brexit would have actually entailed. I certainly didn't see any of that.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Contrary to the aspersions of many Remainers, I do actually grant those on the oppsoing side with a degree of intelligence. So to claim that a reprsentative bulk of Leave voters were intent on maintaining the status quo, is either lying to yourself or lying to me.
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That’s a lot of words to essentially say people voted for something more granular than the binary question on the paper. Perhaps we should now clarify what said people intended, instead of assuming.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Contrary to the aspersions of many Remainers, I do actually grant those on the oppsoing side with a degree of intelligence. So to claim that a reprsentative bulk of Leave voters were intent on maintaining the status quo, is either lying to yourself or lying to me.
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It’s hard to maintain:

People who voted Leave weren’t stupid
And
People who voted Leave understood that leaving meant leaving the customs union and single market

Because anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence would understand that the second causes intractable problems re: Ireland.

I guess you could say most Leavers don’t give a shit about Ireland, but that is really just another way of saying they are ignorant.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Contrary to the aspersions of many Remainers, I do actually grant those on the oppsoing side with a degree of intelligence. So to claim that a reprsentative bulk of Leave voters were intent on maintaining the status quo, is either lying to yourself or lying to me.
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Brexiters seem to have somehow gained an insight into why 17.5m people voted leave on the day of the referendum. This statement is a prime example of that.
 
Boris has shown to be largely incompetent as the Olympic Stadium deal has only recently just highlighted so I imagine he is doing more than just witnessing this feck up.
 
I don't think incompetent is the apt word; corrupt is, perhaps.
 
Member 5225 said:
But regardless of Remain or Leave, isn’t Boris just witnessing the utter balls-up of Brexit from within. It’s almost worse!
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He is more than just witnessing, his minister is supposed to be one of the main providers when it comes to information and direction. The EU is a foreign policy matter and the relationship between the UK and the world after Brexit is his responsibility.

This mess is highlighting, the problem between the UK and continental Europe, a part of your politicians are not aware of their responsibilities and they blamed everyone other than themselves because of it.
 
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