Is it fair to worship Guardiola at this point? | The Ball Did It

[padr81]

Funny thing is you scored from 2 defensive errors today. So..

So did we but the defeat was avoidable.

Easily avoidable but was a 0-0 at home when 8 pts down to your title rival really acceptable. Ask yourself would any other top manager like Conte, Ancelotti, Klopp have set out like today to not lose. Simone maybe but that's it imho.

 

[AshRK]

Just a quick question on the "we were really bad today brigade" (and you were, I'll post my feelings on your manager at a later date when I probably won't get banned.

Do you think its just a coincidence that this season United, Chelsea, Napoli for 45 minutes and almost every other team we beat this season have had a bad day or an off night. That every night we "were there for the taking" but our opponents just didn't take us? Maybe its just maybe that Pep's teams don't allow the opposition the chance to take them?

You guys were sublime against Chelsea but fault was also with chelsea and how conte played without a striker for most of the game. Against Napoli you were dominated for the first 30 minutes and then they lost their Left back and you got a lucky break. I thought that had a huge impact and to be fair Napoli are not that great defensively.

As for today, sorry but you were not that great. You were massively gifted 3 points today. But fair play to you lot as you are deserving winners of the league this season.

 

[NYAS]

Nonsense. He’s fecking off to Qatar end of next season to take over their national team ahead of the 2022 World Cup. Then he’ll likely retire early having cashed in.

He’s a good manager but sadly he’s just become a shill to help launder the reputation of a couple of ugly, repressive and abusive regimes.

Nah, that’s your frustration talking after a really bad loss but I don’t blame you.

He’s obsessed with reputation and so I somehow don’t think he’ll end his career by crashing out of the group stage of a World Cup with a no-name national team.

 

[RedPed]

Yep.

Wish they draw Real Madrid tomorrow so that wankfest will be over.

The irony is they'll probably go down to a Crystal Palace, Huddersfield or West Ham type team. The sooner the better. They probably will win the league this season but will do a Chelsea next season and will turn on Pep like all fans do, when things aren't going their way.

The gooners were on top of the world and full of optimism when they mullered BATE 6-0 but have now reverted to their miserable selves after drawing at Southampton. That's just how fans are these days. You only have to see the last 3 City match threads before they got their late goals to see how fickle they are.

United fans are no different and are probably more self-entitled than most. We've been spoiled by Fergie, bless him!

 

[Cristiano Lell]

I can't just judge a manager on what he has won, it's not gaugable without looking at his resources. Like I said given the resources he is superb, but for me a great manager should be judged on more than that, last season tells me more about Pep than this one.

True. A manager should always be judged based on the first season in a new league with a new team, not on later seasons when he shaped the team to his liking.

 

[Vialli_92]

Best manager I've seen in my lifetime

The football he plays is something I would have never imagined was possible

Hopefully he'll manage my team some day

 

[Treble]

Bayern was the best team in the world in 2015/16. Not Pep's fault that Muller missed his penalty. The way they dominated Atletico at the Allianz was a sight to behold. Simeone said after the game that it was the best team he's ever faced.

Yup. Atleti looked like a pub team in the first half. That Bayern side were unlucky not to reach at least the final.

 

[2mufc0]

Win a CL with a team like Porto or Inter and then we'll judge him. Until then he won't be in same league as Mourinho or Fergie in my book.

To take over the best sides in every league with all the talent in the world at his disposal is not worship worthy. If he went to Arsenal, Spurs, Everton or Liverpool and managed to run away with the league like that I'd be more impressed.

Also don't forget he won the CL only with Barca, couldn't achieve that with Bayern or City (yet anyway).

Inter had a good team at that time, Wesley Sneijder was playing Balon level.

And Fergie never won the CL with a team like Porto either, it's just one of those things . Great achievement but shouldn't be used as a yardstick to assess how good a manager is. Besides that Porto team contained players that went on to become world class players so hardly a team full of duds.

 

[Skills]

Nonsense. He’s fecking off to Qatar end of next season to take over their national team ahead of the 2022 World Cup. Then he’ll likely retire early having cashed in.

He’s a good manager but sadly he’s just become a shill to help launder the reputation of a couple of ugly, repressive and abusive regimes.

I hope he fecks off quickly then.

 

[padr81]

You guys were sublime against Chelsea but fault was also with chelsea and how conte played without a striker for most of the game. Against Napoli you were dominated for the first 30 minutes and then they lost their Left back and you got a lucky break. I thought that had a huge impact and to be fair Napoli are not that great defensively.

As for today, sorry but you were not that great. You were massively gifted 3 points today. But fair play to you lot as you are deserving winners of the league this season.

I was refering to the first Napoli game where we just hammered them and should have been 5-0 up at half time (where everyone on here was saying City are so open but Napoli won't take them). Then we powered away from them.

 

[coolredwine]

Just a quick question on the "we were really bad today brigade" (and you were, I'll post my feelings on your manager at a later date when I probably won't get banned.

Do you think its just a coincidence that this season United, Chelsea, Napoli for 45 minutes and almost every other team we beat this season have had a bad day or an off night. That every night we "were there for the taking" but our opponents just didn't take us? Maybe its just maybe that Pep's teams don't allow the opposition the chance to take them?

Do you think if it were somebody else other than Lukaku in that position, at that time, he would have given the ball away like that?

Other than that, I don't think you ever had a sniff at the goal.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Easily avoidable but was a 0-0 at home when 8 pts down to your title rival really acceptable. Ask yourself would any other top manager like Conte, Ancelotti, Klopp have set out like today to not lose. Simone maybe but that's it imho.

We had as many clear cut chances as you today. You won, and deservedly so, by dominating our midfield, which is literally what the entire world predicted when Pogba was sent off last week. This game quite easily could have been 2-2 and the narrative would have been different.

 

[Kraftwerker]

Nah, that’s your frustration talking after a really bad loss but I don’t blame you.

He’s obsessed with reputation and so I somehow don’t think he’ll end his career by crashing out of the group stage of a World Cup with a no-name national team.

He may not retire in Qatar true. But he is a shill for regimes which are black holes in human rights.

He’s always said he’ll have a short career though. I don’t think he wants to be one of these elder statesmen still on the touchline in his 60s. Football, whilst clearly his passion, also seems to take a lot out of him. And he never lasts long in a job.

He’ll take one or two more paydays (PSG?), and sail off into the sunset a very very wealthy man.

 

[Wengerscoat]

Win a CL with a team like Porto or Inter and then we'll judge him. Until then he won't be in same league as Mourinho or Fergie in my book.

To take over the best sides in every league with all the talent in the world at his disposal is not worship worthy. If he went to Arsenal, Spurs, Everton or Liverpool and managed to run away with the league like that I'd be more impressed.

Also don't forget he won the CL only with Barca, couldn't achieve that with Bayern or City (yet anyway).

Noone will be in Fergie's book. Whether its Pep or Jose.

Fergie built 3 sides over two decades and dominated with them, not only dominated with them but in the latter part of his career he had some average players managing to win the league. Noone can do that. Its a massive shame he does not have more CL titles to his name.

 

[Ban]

Easily avoidable but was a 0-0 at home when 8 pts down to your title rival really acceptable. Ask yourself would any other top manager like Conte, Ancelotti, Klopp have set out like today to not lose. Simone maybe but that's it imho.

You asked if City was there for the taking. We didn't talk about how United set up.
Or did we?
I mean City wasn't anything special, we did show too much respect.

 

[padr81]

We had as many clear cut chances as you today. You won, and deservedly so, by dominating our midfield, which is literally what the entire world predicted when Pogba was sent off last week. This game quite easily could have been 2-2 and the narrative would have been different.

Different but not good enough.
2-2 would change feck all, you needed to win and imho didn't go for it. Pep set up positively away from home in a game he didn't need to win and admittedly parked the bus for the last half hour when in front. It looked to me like you guys would have been happy not to be beaten in a must win game.

Just my 2cents mind so feel free to disregard it.

 

[padr81]

You asked if City was there for the taking. We didn't talk about how United set up.
Or did we?
I mean City wasn't anything special, we did show too much respect.

I asked if City were there for the taking by so many teams, how come they've never been taken. City were there for the taking v United, Napoli, West Ham, Chelsea, Huddersfield, Southmapton and Bournmouth according to the Caf. If Pep's teams (the discussion is about Pep) are there for the taking so often how come they are never/very rarely taken.

 

[Ban]

I asked if City were there for the taking by so many teams, how come they've never been taken. City were there for the taking v United, Napoli, West Ham, Chelsea, Huddersfield, Southmapton and Bournmouth according to the Caf. If Pep's teams (the discussion is about Pep) are there for the taking so often how come they are never/very rarely taken.

I can't speak for Caf (as if the whole caf has said it) but in some of those games you were there for the taking. It's not that every time you're so good that other team cant take you, sometimes you get lucky with a decision or a goal in the last minutes or a defense making an error.
You can't be brilliant in all of the games even if you're a magnificient City.

 

[Ban]

Different but not good enough.
2-2 would change feck all, you needed to win and imho didn't go for it. Pep set up positively away from home in a game he didn't need to win and admittedly parked the bus for the last half hour when in front. It looked to me like you guys would have been happy not to be beaten in a must win game.

Just my 2cents mind so feel free to disregard it.

With 2-2 we would go for it imo. So it's a strange thing to say, with 2-2 the game wouldn't have stopped that moment.

 

[breakout67]

Inter had a good team at that time, Wesley Sneijder was playing Balon level.

And Fergie never won the CL with a team like Porto either, it's just one of those things . Great achievement but shouldn't be used as a yardstick to assess how good a manager is. Besides that Porto team contained players that went on to become world class players so hardly a team full of duds.

Fergie overcame the scottish duopoly and won the league with Aberdeen. He also won the European trophy with Aberdeen beating Real Madrid in the final.

 

[padr81]

I can't speak for Caf (as if the whole caf has said it) but in some of those games you were there for the taking. It's not that every time you're so good that other team cant take you, sometimes you get lucky with a decision or a goal in the last minutes or a defense making an error.
You can't be brilliant in all of the games even if you're a magnificient City.

Yet we haven't played a single game we didn't deserve to win, where we haven't outshot, had more chances and controlled the game vs the opposition.
We were there for the taking on Wednesday night and we were taken. The only game this season we've been outplayed and guess what, the team who actually outplayed us beat us. In not a single other game this season has this happened. Napoli away is the only other game we didn't absolutely control start to finish, to say anything else is lies.

As I said earlier this is City and we might conspire to feck it up, but lets not pretend any team in England has deserved to beat us our outplayed us this season so far anyway.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Different but not good enough.
2-2 would change feck all, you needed to win and imho didn't go for it. Pep set up positively away from home in a game he didn't need to win and admittedly parked the bus for the last half hour when in front. It looked to me like you guys would have been happy not to be beaten in a must win game.

Just my 2cents mind so feel free to disregard it.

We played a horrible first 40 minutes in which you created how many chances? De Gea made two saves, from what I can remember, De Bruyne and Sane, that's hardly dominating - yes, you had the ball but we looked comfortable in defense for most of the game. However, we had almost half of the ball in the second half and made a clear attempt to win. If it wasn't for stupidity from Lukaku, on two occasions, we may have capitalised on the positive start to the 2nd half. Instead, we were setback, yet managed to create some half chances and then a glorious chance to make it 2-2 with 10 minutes to play.

 

[padr81]

With 2-2 we would go for it imo. So it's a strange thing to say, with 2-2 the game wouldn't have stopped that moment.

Because you went for it at 0-0 and 1-1? You showed zero attacking intent except when behind the first time for 5 minutes. Even when we parked the bus you offered zero attacking intent. The United that played against Arsenal was a very different United to this one.

 

[2mufc0]

Fergie overcame the scottish duopoly and won the league with Aberdeen. He also won the European trophy with Aberdeen beating Real Madrid in the final.

He specifically was talking about the CL. I have no doubts about Fergie he is the GOAT for me.

 

[Ban]

Because you went for it at 0-0 and 1-1? You showed zero attacking intent except when behind the first time for 5 minutes. Even when we parked the bus you offered zero attacking intent. The United that played against Arsenal was a very different United to this one.

That's not how it went. We did attack in the 2nd half when it was 1:1, and again after we conceded.

 

[breakout67]

He specifically was talking about the CL. I have no doubts about Fergie he is the GOAT for me.

I was thinking it would be a bit harsh on Fergie for not winning the CL when it didnt exist. SAF's achievments with Aberdeen are as good or better than Mourinho's achievements with Porto IMO.

 

[Ban]

Yet we haven't played a single game we didn't deserve to win, where we haven't outshot, had more chances and controlled the game vs the opposition.
We were there for the taking on Wednesday night and we were taken. The only game this season we've been outplayed and guess what, the team who actually outplayed us beat us. In not a single other game this season has this happened. Napoli away is the only other game we didn't absolutely control start to finish, to say anything else is lies.

As I said earlier this is City and we might conspire to feck it up, but lets not pretend any team in England has deserved to beat us our outplayed us this season so far anyway.

You can be there for the taking even when you outshot someone and have more chances.

 

[padr81]

We played a horrible first 40 minutes. However, we had almost half of the ball in the second half and made a clear attempt to win. If it wasn't for stupidity from Lukaku, on two occasions, we may have capitalised on the positive start to the 2nd half. Instead, we were setback, yet managed to create some half chances and then a glorious chance to make it 2-2 with 10 minutes to play.

You had 5 shots on target in 90 minutes, 2 in the first half and 3 in the second. You had an extra 10% possession because City sat back and parked the bus as well making two team with feck all intent and hence feck all chances. I'm going off topic here so I'll leave it for now.

 

[padr81]

You can be there for the taking even when you outshot someone and have more chances.

But we weren't. Just because we scored late? If anything the opposition was there for the taking and we eventually took it. Defending manfully and hanging on for 90 minutes doesn't mean the opponent was there for the taking.

 

[Sylar]

Hes done well to plug the holes they had. I think he had it easier than Jose cos he still had a class spine to rely on and some of the key players were there before he arrived. The football they play is defo quality, no doubting that. And the pressure they put on leads to some of the luck they get and late goals
Saing that, two scruffy goals today which wouldnt have happened had Lukuku not had brain farts.

 

[2mufc0]

I was thinking it would be a bit harsh on Fergie for not winning the CL when it didnt exist. SAF's achievments with Aberdeen are as good or better than Mourinho's achievements with Porto IMO.

Fergie should have won more CL but it's just one of those things, you need that bit of luck which was missing at times. Rebuilding teams and winning league titles year after year is the real litmus test for a manager imo.

 

[MuranoLover]

Lets see where he takes them in the CL , Bayern was not a success and he did not feel it will be , that is why he left

 

[Charlie Foley]

Bayern was the best team in the world in 2015/16. Not Pep's fault that Muller missed his penalty. The way they dominated Atletico at the Allianz was a sight to behold. Simeone said after the game that it was the best team he's ever faced.

Agreed. Bayern left that match behind them and would have beaten RM in the final in my opinion.

 

[M Bison]

He’s done a great job to be fair, currently Best manager in the world.

Shame he’s in charge of City.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

You had 5 shots on target in 90 minutes, 2 in the first half and 3 in the second. You had an extra 10% possession because City sat back and parked the bus as well making two team with feck all intent and hence feck all chances. I'm going off topic here so I'll leave it for now.

Ok, my last post and I'll call it there. You had 7 shots on target in 90 minutes, a whole 2 more than United with nearly double the ball we had... This game is hardly any different to the derby last year.

 

[Aboutreika18]

I don't buy this nonsense that Guardiola isn't an adaptable manager. We saw today where they scored a couple of (albeit fortuitous) goals from set-pieces and then he brought on another CB to try and shut the game down.

Against Napoli, they sat deep and then swarmed forward on the counter attack in a manner more commonly associated with Mourinho sides.

At Bayern, there was a game against Dortmund where Bayern spent most of the first hour attempting long balls to Javi Martinez, who was playing a similar role to what Fellaini's been doing for us, until the game opened up and the trickier players like Gotze came on and won the game for Bayern.

Just a few examples off the top of my head but I'm always surprised when people say Guardiola doesn't adapt his team, when it's quite clear, if you've watched any of his sides over an extended period of time, that he does change things for certain matches and sometimes quite drastically, like using Javi Martinez as a targetman against Dortmund.

 

[padr81]

Ok, my last post and I'll call it there. You had 7 shots on target in 90 minutes, a whole 2 more than United with nearly double the ball we had... This game is hardly any different to the derby last year.

Yeah but we didn't have to win. You did. Thats the key point for me. A Ferguson United would never hand the points in the must win game away with a wimper like that. They would run though walls to get the 3 points. We should probably find a new thread to take this too lol.

 

[Cait Sith]

Domestic League GOAT manager for sure. 15 wins, 1 draw in 16 games in the supposed "everyone can beat everyone" league is absolutely phenomenal. He must average something like 95 points per season since 2008, I'll check that later.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Yeah but we didn't have to win. You did. Thats the key point for me. A Ferguson United would never hand the points in the must win game away with a wimper like that. They would run though walls to get the 3 points. We should probably find a new thread to take this too lol.

I dont think we attempted to hand away the points. You played well and, I believe, we played really bad - you did stifle our team but we didnt do ourselves any favours. I cant complain about losing, we deserved to lose and had too many passengers. However, at the same time, I didnt feel that scared of City - I was very nervous for about 20 minutes.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Yeah but we didn't have to win. You did. Thats the key point for me. A Ferguson United would never hand the points in the must win game away with a wimper like that. They would run though walls to get the 3 points. We should probably find a new thread to take this too lol.

We had plenty of miserable performances in major games under Fergie, not least when we lost 1-0 against you when we blew the 7 point lead with only a few games to go.