People are allowed to be offended, but they have no right to try and change peoples behaviour or make others feel bad when they've done nothing wrong and meant no harm.
"Blackface" Discussion
- Thread starter Mister_Stubbs
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Are you saying that Griezmann did nothing wrong?
Sounds like me and my wife when I put my dirty socks next to the laundry basket instead of in it.
Does not reflect well on the strength of your argument tbh, my wife's always right
FFS
Please don't move or close this thread, I've gone from mildly agitated by all the ignorance to happy RedCafe is providing a platform for all the idiots on here to expose themselves.
Penises have caused rape is one of the best sentences I've read in 2017 btw, thank you
Here's the picture of Griezmann for those who missed it.
Some of the snowflakes in this thread are cringeworthy. Context is everything and he's doing it as a tribute, give it a rest.
I found the picture to be funny, Maybe it's just me.
In his head I don't think he felt he was doing anything wrong.
I dont believe it is racist. But I wouldnt do it, as I know it is something people have an issue with
Penises have caused rape. That should ne his tagline.
Also that doesn't mean all penises are rapists.
Also that doesn't mean all penises are rapists.
This isn't my point here though.
I also believe that Griezmann didn't think he was doing anything wrong. A good apology and not doing it again will suffice to rectify the situation, as far as I'm concerned. However, people are still allowed to be offended by what he did, because what he did, regardless of intention, was wrong. The post I responded to seemed to suggest that he hadn't done anything wrong.
Bore off.
I'm speechless.
I'd start asking yourself why you found it funny.
I'm sure if he wasn't a footballer and you saw a guy walking down the street with his face covered in black & a NBA shirt people would feel more offended..
He did nothing wrong. I am an African and I don’t feel offended by what Griezmann did. The only people who do already live a sad, uninteresting life anyway so anything ticks them off.
The Wayan brothers can do a movie about “White Girls” and paint themselves white, but Griezmann cannot do the same? The double standard is disgusting. I understand his apology because of the PR & stuff but in principle, he’s done nothing wrong.
The SJWs on social media can feck off
Surely the last couple entering the fray to defend AG must be wumming.Intentions are incredibly relevant and he's clearly dressing up for fun and as a tribute, which is why you see people jumping in to defend him.
Offense is subjective so it's entirely rationale for myself and others to point out how ridiculous some of the slander being thrown at him is for what is obviously an innocent gesture.
I'm Irish and I don't get offended or upset when someone dresses up as a british solider, or member of the royal family or anyone whose had a long history of discrimination against generations of Irish because I realise they have no intention what so ever to offend Irish people and just dress up for fun.
I understand where you're coming from, but respectfully, I, and more importantly, many black people, disagree.
I am an African who didn’t feel offended by what Griezmann did, however blackface is not acceptable and my personal attitude is not, and should not be, representative or indicative of what is acceptable in society.
Just like yours shouldn’t be.
You don’t care about it? Great.
Doesn’t make it a great idea.
Painting this as if SJW’s are what’s wrong is hugely ignorant.
As a wider point - if you as an individual don’t feel offence to something, it doesn’t mean that the action wasn’t offensive.
Not every black person will find this offensive, however that doesn’t mean that this is still a clever thing to do, does it?
Can we stop with the ‘I’m x and I don’t care about this particular issue’ argument? Nobody cares.
We’re not talking on an individual level.
Im sick of this lad seems like a bellend. Im glad he is afraid of the cold and rain.
It's already been explained to you and you still don't get it, do you? Which bit is hard to comprehend? (I'm being genuine here.)
Blackface was a tool that was used by white people to define black people in a racist manner. It was used to spread racial inferiority: black people can only ever be dumb, savages, hypersexual, etc. These damaging stereotypes helped maintain a racially stratified society. When you consider the historical roots of blackface: it doesn't matter what your intention is, when the thing you are doing is racist. Griezmann probably isn't racist... The act itself, however...
(Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember reading that blackface characters were smart in the beginning, before they went full racist.)
Now over to @Mister_Stubbs who went running like Jose Aldo after I lectured him. Convenient that he doesn't address facts and ignored my post, yet was brave enough to post this:
Clutching. At. Straws. Because. You. Don't. Have. A. Real. Argument. Classic.
I'll help you out again.
Don't get what's wrong with blackface? Here's why it's so offensive.
This excerpt from the linked article seems to apply to you, unfortunately:
Fwiw, I'm brown, but you've been sniffing too much if you think blackface is remotely funny or a good idea for a "costume". Also, my issue with blackface is that some people genuinely think that in order to be like me, all they need is shoe polish/make up... and that's that. That is extremely offensive to many people because you don't know shit about their struggle, it's much deeper than that. That's why I'm @ your neck. Once you form a coherent argument, I might tone it down... otherwise, please, stop perpetuating nonsense.
What slander? Pretty much every single person criticising him on here has gone no further than saying it was stupid and ignorant, which it was.
Intention obviously has to be taken into account, which is precisely why people have gone no further than calling him stupid and ignorant. However, just because a person may not be racist does not mean that they cannot do or say racist things.
It doesn't matter what your intention is, when the thing you are doing is racist.
This is nonsense. Of course intentions matter. There’s an ocean of difference between doing something racist for explicitly racist reasons and doing it accidentally out of ignorance. Just as there’s a difference between premeditated murder and involuntary manslaughter, and any respectable justice system recognizes that difference.
@RedTillI'mDead is on a anti pc rampage right now. He has been preaching some PUA game in the old duck thread too.
It's far from nonsense actually. Some were trying to give Griezmann a pass because there was no intent to offend (or something similar). This doesn't matter when the act itself is racist (doesn't make him racist though). It's really not that hard to comprehend.
The idea that intentions don’t matter is absolutely, 100% nonsense, both legally and ethically.
If someone accidentally trips you in the street and immediately apologizes, do you treat that person as if he/she did it on purpose? Presumably you don’t. And if you thought he did it on purpose, you would presumably treat him differently than if you thought it was an accident, right?
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So it’s perfectly fine for the Wayan brothers to do “White chicks” but a football player cannot dress up as a black man? Is that not reverse racism in itself?
Why can’t black people take what they constantly dish out? How is Griezmann disrespecting anyone by choosing to be a Harlem Globetrotter player? I think the world is a mess right now. Everyone has something to whine & moan about.
No black person, I repeat, no black person should be offended by what Antoine did. If they do, they should tell me what his offence is. What bollocks? Must we always be victims in everything? This is bordering on lunacy.
Do white people have a history of being mocked, dehumanised and humiliated purely because of the colour of their skin?
Have their physical features been compared to animals, and their rights been lessoned to be seen as being less than human?
Have white people been denied roles in movies and media that are centred around being a white person, only to have that character be given to a black person in painted white skin and dramatised features?
Are you seriously this dense and only using the fact that you’re African and you personally don’t find any fault in it, as reason enough for this to be okay?
For what it’s worth, I’m not saying anyone should partake in white face, or any other skin painting exercise - however theres a clear difference here.
FFS
Please don't move or close this thread, I've gone from mildly agitated by all the ignorance to happy RedCafe is providing a platform for all the idiots on here to expose themselves.
It is amazing right
The slander goes beyond Redcaf, just take a 5 minute look on twitter or other social media platforms and see what's being thrown at him.
Borden is of course correct here and saying intentions don't matter shows a serious lack of critical thinking.
Intentions obviously matter in some circumstances, but if I wear a swastika T-shirt cos I think it is a cool symbol and then wander into a Jewish neighbourhoood, I can't complain if people take offence.
Do me a favour and stfu with that bullshit....
I'm more than happy for you to let people take the piss out of you and have you laugh along with it like a bellend. But some of us don't play that shit.... Christ, I hate when someone like you comes along and tries to play down this shit because you personally think it's ok.
As was already pointed out, your world view is only part of a bigger picture. One that lots of individuals like yourself have been discussing in this thread. Some of those individuals have been offended or can see why what he did is seen as offensive so who are you to tell them this is wrong?
No one is arguing intent doesn't matter though, we're just stressing that it doesn't magically inoculate people from responsibility for their actions or render them unaccountable from the effects of said actions. This shit doesn't exist in a vacuum and pretending it does, doesn't help anybody.
If you are aware of what that symbol represents then you're not really ignorant though, just incredibly callous, in which case you deserve condemnation.
He's quite literally absolved Griezmann of the tag "racist" because he understands that there was no malicious intention. His point is that regardless of intention, the act itself was still racist.
In your examples, there is of course a difference between involuntary manslaughter and premeditated murder, however, a person is still dead. The person responsible for that death may not have meant to do it, but they still killed someone.
Griezmann may not have meant anything malicious with his actions, but his actions can still be considered racist, without him actually being a racist.