People on here would love our Sinterklaasfeest btw 
"Blackface" Discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Have you been subjected to such humiliation personally? I say this because you say it like every minority on this plant is subjected to humiliation by white people, which I like to think is just not the case anymore. Though of course it does happen.
Have I had white people dress up like me? No of course not, I’m not a famous character.
Have I had white people make fun of my skin, and features such as nose, lips, contrasting white teeth etc?
Yes all throughout my childhood.
Have I had white people insist I dress up in a range of few stereotypes of black people or inferring I look like certain black peoplensuch as Whoopi Goldberg, mr t and Oprah, purely because I’m black? Even though I bear no resemble to them, other than the toe of my skin? Yes again, all throughout my childhood.
I could go on.
I’m sure you’d like to think that’s not the case, but it is.
People on here would love our Sinterklaasfeest btw
Was thinking the same
For context:
what controversy? some link? because I checked the Ramos parade(after reading this thread) and didn´t find any extreme reaction. If it had happened in Sevilla...but in his small town I doubt that the neighbors have thought about the historical connotations, and when Van Nistelrooy did it in Marbella I didn´t read anything in the press. Maybe abroad it was an scandal. I guess that we are really ignorant.
It’s literally the playground “I know you are, but what am I?” tactic.
Please kill me.
So trueSad thing is, there is actually an argument to be made for people becoming too "PC". Unfortunately, lately majority of the time, complaining about "PC culture" usually means "I'm annoyed I'm not allowed to get away with all the ignorant, racist shit I would have gotten away with a few years ago"
. For a long time, a lot of people with liberal leanings and I would count myself as one, felt that PC went too far and that people became over sensitive to the point where it restricted dialogue and it felt nobody can take a joke anymore. I changed my mind completely about this in recent years. The mistake I and many have made in feeling that PC went too far was that we genuinely felt racism was so rare that everybody understood how stupid it was which made the restriction of dialogue pointless. It's like if you want to make a joke at the expense of someone in a group, it is only funny and okey if everyone is in on it. If only one person in the group is genuinely open to the idea that said joked about person is indeed inferior in some form, it is no longer a joke, it is bullying; dangerous and potentially harmful. This is why I changed my mind, it has become clear that I and many have been too sheltered in believing that the world has moved on and that making fun of race, sexuality, gender, etc was now just funny and nobody would take it seriously as a sign of mockery and belittling. With the amount of the new anti PC brigade, the venom and bitterness coming out of them and the rise of the far right movements all over the West, clearly, we have not moved on, we have just silenced a significant portion of the population for long enough that we deluded ourselves into thinking everybody was on the same page. This puts PC under a new light and makes it more needed than some might have thought, or liked to think.
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I'm having a hard time believing that, Baracus.
I’m not calling them unintelligent because they hold a different opinion. I’m calling them unintelligent because they hold an incredibly stupid opinion. Critical difference.
And, to be clear, I am not universally talking about everyone in this thread that holds different opinions. I am just talking about the really, really stupid ones. And there have been a few.
God have mercy, when they find out this place will explode..People on here would love our Sinterklaasfeest btw
"Hey! Don't say I was offensive because I find that offensive!"
I never realised the background of doing it, I've only picked up that's it bad form without ever really contemplating why. Thank you for educating me.
I can't talk about the Spanish case, but regarding Belgium and Holland, the traditional depiction of 'Black Pete' is far from abolished actually. More like slowly changing. On the major tv shows, the blackface has been replaced by multi-colored Pete's or Pete's with soot sweeps on their face. But there is still a lot of resistance to this change. In 2013, only 5% agreed with a change. In 2014, this went up to 13%. Probably it's higher now, but I'm quite sure there is still a majority against any change in appearence of Black Pete. And in most local celebrations, you'll still see the traditional Black Pete (blackfaced, pronounced lips, earrings and curly afro). It's a centuries old tradition that has (as far as I can remember at least) never really been linked to anything racist here in the low lands before the past few years. Even though I now do realise it is, and can imagine people are offended by it, I had never even considered this before.
It seems that people have a difficulty coming to terms with the fact that the tradition they have enjoyed so much as a child (or as a parent, dressing up to their own children) is now being linked to racism. Also because they feel that they are being branded racist for having enjoyed that tradition for so long perhaps. Personally, I don't see why you would want to resist the change since the colour of the character is not essential in the whole story/tradition. So if it offends people, just change the tradition to something else. The children, for which the whole thing is meant, won't care whether he has a black, pink or rainbow-coloured face.
But to be honest, the only reason I learnt about the history of 'blackface' is because of this discussion here the past few years. I consider myself quite educated, also regarding other cultures and especially history, but honestly, I had never heard of this issue or the history behind the 'blackface' practice until a few years ago. And I probably wouldn't be far off when saying that at least 90% of the people in Belgium still don't really have a clue about the history. The same might be true for France as well.
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So true
Great post.
Imagine my surprise, I work with someone who does a mr t impression if I or any black person disagrees with something. They start spouting “I pity the fool, who xyz” no reason, other than I guess their limited/ignorance experience and exposure to black people.
Similar thing happens at lunch, if I suggest something which has chicken, or is from a black culture such as Jamaican food, suddenly a down south middle aged fat black woman impressoin is deemed appropriate, “mm mm mm I sho love me some chicken”
I guess to some in here, that’s completely acceptable.
Penises have caused rape.
I mean, it’s really this simple. So much mouth frothing in this thread, and some people have really exposed themselves as incredibly ignorant.
Griezmann needs to be called out for being a dumb cnut. I can’t see how people can take exception to that.
You don’t find anything about it racist?People on here would love our Sinterklaasfeest btw
I have family in Holland and I'm aware of the situation out there – my post was a reply to all the folks pretending that Blackface is a strictly North American problem.
Hell no!You see those things don't offend me, they actually make me awkward. How are you supposed to react? Fortunately most people are perfectly normal.
You never stopped and thought for a second that a black person following a white old man as an “assistant”, and in a country with a colonial history of slave trade, had any racist tendencies?
Black people shouldn’t be offended by this I guess...
Yes, I understand that. But the fact that this issue was only brought up in recent years in several countries on the continent, for example in Madrid and The Netherlands (and the fact that many other Spanish and Dutch cities still continue using the blackface for these traditions) actually does show the difference in cultural sensitivities in my opinion. And they at least show that until very recently, it probably was for the mostpart a North-American (and perhaps also British) issue. As I said above, I'm quite sure the majority of the people here in Belgium still have no idea about the history and the offence it entails.
HR were no help, so instead I spend as much time away from him as I can.
It sucks, but the only other alternative is me knocking him out. And if I did that, then I’d probably be looked at as the aggressor, so it’s not worth it.
This looks like a thread to stay away from.
I agree with you. On both points.Sad thing is, there is actually an argument to be made for people becoming too "PC". Unfortunately, lately majority of the time, complaining about "PC culture" usually means "I'm annoyed I'm not allowed to get away with all the ignorant, racist shit I would have gotten away with a few years ago"
I let people know that I don't like it. Every time. It's up to the individual how they respond to that. Most tend to apologise and then we move on.
It actually angered me to read that, people don't tend to be that upfront around me but I'm guessing that's because they sense it would be an issue.
I feel you sis...
I understand what you want to say and can't say you are not right in general. I understand why some black people are offended here. I really do. But i am saying that today you can find yourself attacked in being racist or fascist or sexist or something like that without valid reason.
Messi gave to charity his boots in some islamic country and they attacked him because it is insult in their world.
One croatian skiing star once said that he is prepared for season like german soldier 1941. He lost sponsors, attacked that he is nazi, etc...
Battle against any discrimination went too far today and people are accused being racist when they are not. Same goes with griezmann. And us here who didn't understand what he did wrong. I personally heard for the first time today that painting your face is racist thing.
And he was exactly that - he was reckless doing something unintentionally that had previous history of being a racist thing to do.
Do I think he is racist? No, am I offended personally by what he did? No.
However his act can be viewed as racist by some people. You cannot speek for what a person finds disrespectful & say that people are overreacting trying to shut them up. Peoples understanding of anything as well their emotions fluctuate due to many different reasons.
The safest thing he should have done is not done that at all & I'm sure he has learned his lesson.
We all learnt something today tbf. Penises have caused rape.
Unfortunately that's not how it works in real life. Now more people would brand Griezmann as a racist, simply because not many would care to make the distinction that whilst what he did was racist it doesn't necessarily make him one.
It goes without saying that Griezmann should have known better and was rightly called out for it, but let's just say I'm not particularly comfortable with those of the opinion that he deserves the blame entirely and therefore fully responsible for any ensuing fallout because of this faux pas. It just screams SJW outrage and is, in my book, counterproductive.
There needs to be a middle ground somewhere.
Insulting another member
Continue being a victim. You will be a victim for eternity, your wards and their wards would follow the same.
Griezmann did nothing wrong. If it irks you, go to Madrid and sue instead of being a keyboard warrior seated on a dusty plastic chair in a ghetto. Asswipe!
I do now, obviously. But when growing up, I honestly never made the connection. And I think most people never had/have actually (including many black/dark people actually). As a child, I never even associated 'Black Pete' with a black person (as in a person with a black skin colour). It was just a fantasy figure or something, I don't know. The story told to the children is that he's black because he climbs into the chimneys to drop the presents in the living room. A ridiculous way of explaining the uncanny likeness to 18th-century slaves in Holland, as you can sometimes see on paintings, but as a child these kind of exagerated representations just make sense somehow. This 'explenation' is why they replaced the blackface by soot sweeps now, which I think is an elegant solution. The only problem now is that children can recognise the person, in case it's your parents or someone else from your immediate surroundings. But there are ways to fix that as well.
It's strange thinking about this now, but yeah, it is what it is (or was).
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@BlakeUtd
Wow your first paragraph is insane. Political correctness isn't the world going mad; it's a way of society cleansing & recleansing itself to its most purest core.
Never saw it like that!
Wow your first paragraph is insane. Political correctness isn't the world going mad; it's a way of society cleansing & recleansing itself to its most purest core.
Never saw it like that!
We're officially through the looking glass now lads. Nice.
Jesus Christ.
Actually as someone who was ignorant to the whole issue and historical context, I’ve actually found it quite educational to read. A few posters have done a pretty good job of explaining the reasoning behind it.
Did they even try to discreetly talk to him and explain why it's not OK? Some people are either too sheltered or too thick to understand what's wrong about it. Or, most commonly, both. They can't connect the dots, someone else has to do it for them.
Oh dear. Late contender for worst post of the year.
I thought to myself how the hell has this reached 21 pages.
Then I read the last one and remembered what fecking idiots people can be.
Then I read the last one and remembered what fecking idiots people can be.