If we dropped somewhere between 6th and 8th due to a few players not pulling their weight then yes, you can maybe give the manager a pass, but to be 1 point of relegation at Christmas with all but 1 player playing the worst football of their career? Then that runs a lot deeper and tbh screams of you trying to convince yourself Mou was an innocent bystander so it can't happen with him again.
Chelsea 2017/18 thread - FA Cup Champs, League chumps
- Thread starter duffer
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
This may be controversial, but Andy Carroll is actually good. An amusing signing, but he's a good player.
Twitter is going crazy, and so is Moyes. Can't do the hoof-balling anymore..
Twitter is going crazy, and so is Moyes. Can't do the hoof-balling anymore..
He is making use of Arnautovic up front anyway.
Carroll would be a good signing for Chelsea as a back up. The problem is there is a lack of quality in the first eleven and when Hazard leaves they’re fecked.
I agree that us going after Andy Carroll is baffling but Roman is about to spend £1b on our new stadium. Kinda harsh to say Roman doesn't care about the club anymore.
But aren’t a lot of those players gone now? Was it Hazard?
Never said Jose was not to be blamed, of course being the manager he takes the most but it was funny when many chelsea fans gave chelsea players a free pass. Jose questioned costa''s attitude and fans blamed Jose but Conte also did the same which proves Jose was right. Conte''s statement somehow shows even he doesn't fully trust these players which is a concern.
There’s no mention of where the funding for the stadium is coming from. It’s more likely than ever that the club will fund it internally.
I'm in shocked that they keep wasting their money for average mid table players nowdays. Back then from Drogba & Anelka to Costa & Drogba and now become Morata & Bats or Carroll.
From what I watched, Conte seems to be so obsessed with 3511. I don't know why can't they just sign very good striker & rotate him with Morata, they can't just rely on Morata to score goals, the guy has never been 1st choice striker in his previous clubs and now all of sudden he's taking the biggest role in his career. Carroll is simply not good enough, he's not even good enough for West Ham, even their previous manager has tried to sign a new striker because Carroll is just not good enough for West Ham.
From what I watched, Conte seems to be so obsessed with 3511. I don't know why can't they just sign very good striker & rotate him with Morata, they can't just rely on Morata to score goals, the guy has never been 1st choice striker in his previous clubs and now all of sudden he's taking the biggest role in his career. Carroll is simply not good enough, he's not even good enough for West Ham, even their previous manager has tried to sign a new striker because Carroll is just not good enough for West Ham.
The most ridiculous thing is that several Chelsea fans are trying in vain that justify this Andy Carroll interest by stating that he is a good player when fit notwithstanding the fact that he has habitually been crocked for the past five years and plays like a big awkward lump. I firmly believe they will say it’s a good signing if Chelsea snapped me up. What’s the name for this sort of delusion ?
Is that true? Because I've only seen us criticizing the board, coming to terms with Conte's departure in the summer, etc.
He's so obsessed with it because there are only 2 consistent creators at the club. Fabregas can't play in a midfield 2 anymore, and Conte thinks a 3 man defense is the best, so that only leaves one option in terms of formation. Pedro and Willian have done nothing to warrant getting their starting places back as opposed to Fabregas last season who was benched and when he came on, looked great.
@duffer told me that Andy Carrol at his best is a battering ram like Drogba, and this is a good back-up striker for Morata.
I like him so I thought fair enough, but maybe it is because he is trying to come to terms with it.
I said the part in bold, you've made up the rest. I said he's being signed as a back up, not that he'll be a good back up.
Apologies, you were saying that you needed better than Batshuayi so I assumed you were fine with this signing.
It's not the signing I'd make for sure but it's hard to get upset about a back-up striker. If we had some youth product who I thought could do the job, I'd be annoyed but we do not.
You spent 15m on Barkley when you have a similar player Loftus cheek. So even if you have some youth product who could do the job, he will still end up on loan.
Like Andreas Christensen is out on loan?
Don't make sense to me.
Matic wasn't a creator when you played him in midfield 2 in 343. You bought Bakayoko to replace Matic who has played in midfield 2 with Fabinho. You had Drinkwater who had played in midfield 2 with Kante before. Even without Fabregas, you scored plenty of goals last season.
3511 is probably just his philosophy, didn't he play similar formation in Juventus 352.
You were linked with Bonucci & van Dijk, but AC Milan beats you & van Dijk was too expensive and you have no choice but to keep Christensen and it turned up it's better spend nothing and trust some youth product.
The likes of Loftus Cheek & Abraham are crying out there because your club prefer wasted their money on Barkley & Bats.
"Linked to" means feck all. We were linked to Sanchez because one football writer put it in a tweet.
Barkley at £15 mil is an incredibly low risk transfer and Bats was signed when Tammy Abraham was 17. Neither RLC or Tammy are "crying out there". Both are full England internationals.
You can't blame @duffer for trying to find some positivity. Chelsea's rivals are strengthening with the likes of VVD and possibly Sanchez whilst Chelsea are being linked with cloggers like Carrol.
Something strange going on at Chavford Bridge that's for sure.
Barkley at 15m is good business and we’re desperate for HG players. Easy purchase IMO. RLC isn’t exactly inspiring at Palace either.
But we were playing a 343 last season and Pedro and Willian were both good, while Costa was firing the first half of the season. That’s the point you’re missing my friend. This season, pre Christmas, Eden’s in the form of his life but no one else is coming up with the goods so Conte finds a way to bring in our only other creator while also maintaining our defensive solidity. Unfortunately it’s costing us vs the lower clubs bc we’re easier to defend against this season.
Okay mate.Trying to deny that your club wanted to sign Bonucci since last January, your club actually the one who wanted Sanchez more than City & United last summer but your board couldn't afford what Arsenal asked, & fact that RLC is an England International and you don't need to spend a penny to use him but you chose to wasted 15m on a similar player, you could have add that 15m on your budget to sign top players. Abraham is full England international and will cost you free, but your club prefer to spend 20m-30m on Carroll who hasn't play for England for ages.
Not a good business if you can get a similar HG player & younger but for free like RLC. Barkley couldn't even play in Everton and now you think RLC who has been playing regular with Palace is worse option than 15m Barkley?
Edit:
Think about it.
- Both are similar type of player
- RLC cost you free, Barkley cost you 15m
- RLC is younger
- RLC is a HG from your own academy who has been at the club for 4 years + before he turned 21 means more benefit when you want to register your squad for CL.
- RLC has been playing regular in Palace but Barkley struggle to get a game in Everton.
I don't think I'm missing any point here, you are the one who don't understand my point. I'm trying to say that you should play 343 & don't play Fabregas since you said he can't play in 2 man midfield, you didn't need him in your XI when you played 343 last season. So making an excuse not to play 343 and obsessed with 3511 because there are only 2 consistent creators at the club is nonsense. Two players that you lost last summer were Matic & Costa, neither are "creators". 3511 is just a similar formation that Conte has always been used in Juve 352, that's his philosophy probably.
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Most fans gave the players a free pass? Did you see the atmosphere the game after Jose's sacking? The only reason it calmed down is because we appointed another well loved manager, any other appointment and the whole feeling around the place would have eclipsed Rafa's early days in terms of toxicity. What's happening this season if anything makes Jose's case weaker, Conte has faced similar obstacles but still has us in the top 4 and most other season'a we would still have an outside shot at the title, if Jose had a similar "bad" season his job would have been safe as houses.
Our transfer planning is absolutely atrocious
The way I see it is that we've sold or loaned out the likes of RLC, Chalobah, Ake, Zouma, Ola Aina, Abraham to then spend almost 150 million on the likes of Drinkwater, Rudiger, Bakayoko and Zappacosta to replace those players. We could have kept our talented youngsters around and with us being in 4 competitions they would have seen plenty of game time and used that 150 million on 2-3 top class players who would have improved our first 11
Now we're looking to send Bats out on loan to sign Andy Carroll for over 20 million. Complete and utter stupidity
The way I see it is that we've sold or loaned out the likes of RLC, Chalobah, Ake, Zouma, Ola Aina, Abraham to then spend almost 150 million on the likes of Drinkwater, Rudiger, Bakayoko and Zappacosta to replace those players. We could have kept our talented youngsters around and with us being in 4 competitions they would have seen plenty of game time and used that 150 million on 2-3 top class players who would have improved our first 11
Now we're looking to send Bats out on loan to sign Andy Carroll for over 20 million. Complete and utter stupidity
Two wrongs don't make a right, those signings bar Rudiger you namedropped may not be good enough, but neither are those players above (apart from maybe Ake and possibly Tammy in the future) .
Barkley's been starting for Everton for 4 seasons now what are you talking about? But that's trumped by RLC's 6 month period at Palace in which he's been dropped completely and wasn't doing much to impress before that. There's nothing wrong with having Barkley and RLC in the same squad eventually anyway. IDK why you're so hung up on having one or the other. And you are officially missing the point. Why continue to play Willian and Pedro when they've been so bad this season and returned to their normal form? At least in the 3511, we're solid at the back and Bakayoko and Drinkwater have less on their plate because of Fabregas's presence.
A lot of people have criticised Barkley's performance last season and this season he is dropped hasn't play a single game. Not saying you can't play them together even though they both are similar type of midfielder. But that means you will have Kante, Drinkwater, Barkley, RLC, Fabregas, Bakayoko. With that numbers I won't be surprised if some of them are complaining about game time.
A lot of Chelsea fans have been crying out loud to ask for 343 with Hazard Morata Pedro/Willian up front because 3511 is too defensive. So I guess yout points are different with the other Chelsea fans because my point is that Conte obsessed with 3511 because it's probably his favourite formation & it's his philosophy since he used to play 352 in Juventus & Italy.
And your point seems to be Conte is obsessed with 3511 and cannot go back to 343 because Willian & Pedro have been so bad this season. I watched some Chelsea matches this season and being honest myself I don't know how bad Willian & Pedro have been this season but I am not impressed with Bakayoko & Fabregas this season.
You think he's been dropped this season?
Liverpool under Dalglish (dream team): Downing, Charlie Adam and Carroll.
Chelsea under Conte: Drinkwater, Barkley and Carroll. There is absolutely nothing positive there. Nothing.
Chelsea under Conte: Drinkwater, Barkley and Carroll. There is absolutely nothing positive there. Nothing.
Devoid of ideas.
Some on the caf last year were saying he might've finally turned the corner and become the player he was hyped to be then he tore his hamstring. He only returned to training less than a month ago from that injury. If I can play a bit of FM, I'd say RLC is going out on another loan and Barkley is going to play as a MF or as a forward in the 343, leaving the same 4 midfielders we have now. If Bakayoko doesn't pick it up in the next 12-18 months, Marina is going to be looking to maximize on his resale value. Fabregas is turning 31 this year but moves like he's 35. So the only sure things are Kante, Drinkwater, and Barkley as a last resort.
3511 is too defensive, you're right. But Conte's magic dust he sprinkled on some of the players last season (Moses, Alonso to a certain extent, Pedro, Willian) has worn off and they've reverted back to what we're used to seeing. Bakayoko looks fecking shite and Fabregas is good, just tired. Conte ran him into the ground with Bakayoko and Drinkwater both being injured/playing injured. I feel Musonda's injury was really ill-timed because he would've gotten minutes over Christmas. There were lots of rumors he was going to leave and then signed a contract extension and said his future was at Chelsea. Maybe the arrival of Barkley and health of Musonda will push Willian/Pedro's form and Conte flexibility with the 343.
United - Sanchez
City - Silva/Mendy
Chelsea - Carroll
What's the problem?
The Chelsea fans turning on Wiggy yet?
5 defenders and 2 defensive/worker midfielders at home to Norwich. Seems he’s been found out, and without Hazard they’ve got nobody with a bit of magic and unpredictability. Such a negative coach.
5 defenders and 2 defensive/worker midfielders at home to Norwich. Seems he’s been found out, and without Hazard they’ve got nobody with a bit of magic and unpredictability. Such a negative coach.
Who is wiggy? Conte? That's not a wig!
5 defenders? That's our normal formation. We've played 3 at the back for over a year now.
Bit rich of us United fans to berate Chelsea for signing Carroll when we’ve got Fellaini !
Just like Fellaini for us Carroll will have a worth to Chelsea. Not many teams will enjoy seeing him come off the bench with half hour to go. I think it’s a clever move when the top teams add these sort of players, they’re giving themselves options and an obvious plan B.
Just like Fellaini for us Carroll will have a worth to Chelsea. Not many teams will enjoy seeing him come off the bench with half hour to go. I think it’s a clever move when the top teams add these sort of players, they’re giving themselves options and an obvious plan B.
Toupé
Why are you convinced Conte even has a say in transfers?
Dalglish wanted all those players. We are not sure Conte does. Maybe @duffer csn clarify who really signs the players at Chelsea? One of the reasons Conte isn’t happy is due to the transfers.
Conte's 'Mourinho' season starting to get under way already?!
At least they won't have to google his name.