Manchester City 17/18 discussion | "If you're here for the Champions clap your hands" (#6505)

[Shy_Coconut]

If City had matched everything Utd did to the penny do you think his decision would be different?

What are you not getting here.

If Sanchez had waited till the summer he would have earned more going to you than coming to us. As a club you are operating in a financial vacuum. The financial package you would have offered would vastly outstrip what we have agreed to pay.

You agreed a deal in the Summer which fell through. You assured Sanchez that you would be back in for him so advised him to wait it out. You have gone back for him but decided to try to low ball him & Arsenal. This has been met with a negative reaction. We have entered the race & shown a bit of class. You have come back in but the damage has been done. Feathers have been truly ruffled & neither Sanchez or Arsenal will entertain doing business with you. To try & save face over this snub you put out a fake story that Chelsea had entered the bidding & the stakes were to high. Where this all falls down though is that nobody at City told Conte or Chelsea anything about the con trick you were trying to pull. You have also proven in the past that you pay whatever the asking club want's for their player. The stakes are never too high.

I think you are all caught up now.

 

[charlie9882]

What are you not getting here.

If Sanchez had waited till the summer he would have earned more going to you than coming to us. As a club you are operating in a financial vacuum. The financial package you would have offered would vastly outstrip what we have agreed to pay.

You agreed a deal in the Summer which fell through. You assured Sanchez that you would be back in for him so advised him to wait it out. You have gone back for him but decided to try to low ball him & Arsenal. This has been met with a negative reaction. We have entered the race & shown a bit of class. You have come back in but the damage has been done. Feathers have been truly ruffled & neither Sanchez or Arsenal will entertain doing business with you. To try & save face over this snub you put out a fake story that Chelsea had entered the bidding & the stakes were to high. Where this all falls down though is that nobody at City told Conte or Chelsea anything about the con trick you were trying to pull. You have also proven in the past that you pay whatever the asking club want's for their player. The stakes are never too high.

I think you are all caught up now.

City didn't even remotely try and 'low ball him' - City offered him and his agent the same package that was agreed in the summer, allegedly £275k per week - hardly a paupers salary given it would have made him the top earner at the club.

United came in and blew City out of the water financially, his agent tried to get City to match these terms, City told him to do one - that's not lowballing, just sticking to what was already agreed and willing to walk away if his head was turned by the better package.

 

[BobbyManc]

What are you not getting here.

If Sanchez had waited till the summer he would have earned more going to you than coming to us. As a club you are operating in a financial vacuum. The financial package you would have offered would vastly outstrip what we have agreed to pay.

You agreed a deal in the Summer which fell through. You assured Sanchez that you would be back in for him so advised him to wait it out. You have gone back for him but decided to try to low ball him & Arsenal. This has been met with a negative reaction. We have entered the race & shown a bit of class. You have come back in but the damage has been done. Feathers have been truly ruffled & neither Sanchez or Arsenal will entertain doing business with you. To try & save face over this snub you put out a fake story that Chelsea had entered the bidding & the stakes were to high. Where this all falls down though is that nobody at City told Conte or Chelsea anything about the con trick you were trying to pull. You have also proven in the past that you pay whatever the asking club want's for their player. The stakes are never too high.

I think you are all caught up now.

of course, when United throw money at a player, that's a sign of class.

 

[Ballache]

of course, when United throw money at a player, that's a sign of class.

Wenger said it, not us.

 

[fergieisold]

of course, when United throw money at a player, that's a sign of class.

The deal for Sanchez is pretty much what you'd expect for a borderline world class player. It's not our fault City wouldn't pay a fair price!

 

[charlie9882]

The deal for Sanchez is pretty much what you'd expect for a borderline world class player. It's not our fault City wouldn't pay a fair price!

£500k p/w, as confirmed by Simon Stone, is what you see as a fair price for a borderline world class player? Even if you take the lowest reported wage (journalists nowhere near as reliable as Stone) - £350k per week - he's still going to be the best payed player in the league.

What should a genuinely world class player be earning? Everyone on here would say Pogba is a world class player, not borderline - should he get a 'fair price' i.e, even more than Sanchez? You can bet Raiola will be ready to absolutely milk United.

 

[Random Task]

Yep, because you were willing to offer substantially more money to him, his agent and Arsenal

This is one of the reasons for sure, but you seem to be convieniently overlooking the many other factors to consider when joining a new club - the majority of which seem to favour United.

His playing time will be considerably higher at United that it would at City.
His status as a key member of the first team will be secure, at City he will get lost among the crowd of attacking talent the club already possess.
The history of the 2 clubs is beyond comparison, United are streets ahead in this department.
Perhaps he considered the United project a more worthy cause. United being the more legitimate of the two clubs - no highly suspicious activity surrounding them or their owners.
Following on from the last point, he could be a human rights activist, in which case joining City was never an option. He simply used them as a "come get me plea" to Jose who responded in kind.

There are many many more.

 

[Shy_Coconut]

of course, when United throw money at a player, that's a sign of class.

Took what i said totally out of context. You have reached a gentleman's agreement with the player. When the time came to stump up the cash & live up to your end of the agreement you tried to renege. You thought you were in a 1 horse race & tried to be cute. It backfired with disastrous consequences. As a club you have shown contempt for both Sanchez & Arsenal.

 

[KM]

City fans trying to get moral highground over this deal are deluding themselves.

 

[KM]

£500k p/w, as confirmed by Simon Stone, is what you see as a fair price for a borderline world class player? Even if you take the lowest reported wage (journalists nowhere near as reliable as Stone) - £350k per week - he's still going to be the best payed player in the league.

What should a genuinely world class player be earning? Everyone on here would say Pogba is a world class player, not borderline - should he get a 'fair price' i.e, even more than Sanchez? You can bet Raiola will be ready to absolutely milk United.

and you think that the agent of KdB etc wouldn't look at this deal and ask for more money with City?

 

[BobbyManc]

Took what i said totally out of context. You have reached a gentleman's agreement with the player. When the time came to stump up the cash & live up to your end of the agreement you tried to renege. You thought you were in a 1 horse race & tried to be cute. It backfired with disastrous consequences. As a club you have shown contempt for both Sanchez & Arsenal.

No, it's the opposite. City agreed a deal with the player, then United came in and offered more money, at which point Sanchez's agent reneged on the City deal and said we'd have to basically match it to sign him; as the majority of reliable journalists have stated, had City done so, he'd have chosen City over United.

 

[Thunderhead]

No, it's the opposite. City agreed a deal with the player, then United came in and offered more money, at which point Sanchez's agent reneged on the City deal and said we'd have to basically match it to sign him; as the majority of reliable journalists have stated, had City done so, he'd have chosen City over United.

he still wouldn't have come as we wouldn't pay the £35m Arsenal wanted or provided a player like United are in replacement

 

[fergieisold]

£500k p/w, as confirmed by Simon Stone, is what you see as a fair price for a borderline world class player? Even if you take the lowest reported wage (journalists nowhere near as reliable as Stone) - £350k per week - he's still going to be the best payed player in the league.

What should a genuinely world class player be earning? Everyone on here would say Pogba is a world class player, not borderline - should he get a 'fair price' i.e, even more than Sanchez? You can bet Raiola will be ready to absolutely milk United.

Nobody knows what he's on, he has likely been made one of the top earners at the club in keeping with his ability. You might not like it but money in football is here to stay, we either pay up, or fall behind. There's more to this than just money anyway, the media seem to have arrogantly forgotten our history and pulling power.

 

[Blue doomer]

What are you not getting here.

If Sanchez had waited till the summer he would have earned more going to you than coming to us. As a club you are operating in a financial vacuum. The financial package you would have offered would vastly outstrip what we have agreed to pay.

You agreed a deal in the Summer which fell through. You assured Sanchez that you would be back in for him so advised him to wait it out. You have gone back for him but decided to try to low ball him & Arsenal. This has been met with a negative reaction. We have entered the race & shown a bit of class. You have come back in but the damage has been done. Feathers have been truly ruffled & neither Sanchez or Arsenal will entertain doing business with you. To try & save face over this snub you put out a fake story that Chelsea had entered the bidding & the stakes were to high. Where this all falls down though is that nobody at City told Conte or Chelsea anything about the con trick you were trying to pull. You have also proven in the past that you pay whatever the asking club want's for their player. The stakes are never too high.

I think you are all caught up now.

I don't want to come over as a bit of a twat pal, but i can assure you 100% its the opposite of what you've suggested. City kept everything in place and offered the same terms come January, even with a slight improvement too.

Sanchez/Agent or whoever else is on his payroll came back at City with mind boggling amounts of money and completely moved the goalpost, this is not me guessing either, its what happened. I can assure you of that.

Ive no problem with what Utd did as its what we've also done to dine at the top table.

 

[padr81]

Both D.Silva and Fernandinho are 32, yet despite that they are among the most important players on that team, likewise at long as Sanchez has not got the health/fitness regime of Rooney. I think we can get 1-2 good seasons out of him and more importantly we get a player can help the club move forward as well.

Hope I don't feck up the quoting but here goes my friend. Great post btw and welcome to the forum.

Yes they are but we signed Merlin in 2010 at age 24 and Fernandinho at the time was greeted with sceptisism for his age. Yes he's been a great player for us but nowhere in my post have I said Sanchez wouldn't my friend.

If we are actually aiming for a Quadruple (which the clubs owners want to aim for) and do with the sort of high performance Pep expects from his teams, having only 2 wingers (in Sane and Sterling) is nowhere near going to be enough. No player (no matter how good they are) cannot be expected to play 60+ games at the same level of world class performance (and play for their national teams from time to time) and manage all that without getting tired, suspended or injured. That is why we need Sanchez quite frankly and in turn that is why we also need more attacking players like Hazard, Salah, Erriksen, O.Dembele, Dybala and Kane alongside Sanchez (1)

(1) Overall we need at least 7 Attacking Players in our team (4 Wingers and 3 Strikers) when we have only 4 Attacking Players (2 Wingers and 2 Strikers) at the moment (with one of those currently out for quite some time, this is because one needs to have 2 World Class XI's (which we don't have) to even start to reach the sort of success levels we to be reaching as a club. Ideally to be able to win Quadruples (and strong league title wins) across multiple seasons we actually need 10 Attacking Players (6 Wingers and 4 Strikers) and in turn 3 World Class XI's but of course the PL's/CL's squad limits would never permit it.

We are not doing the quadruple and the owners are delusional if they think we are. We are simply not good enough in the back 6 (Ederson up to Fernandinho) to do that.

Again just like your next point, Bernardo is a right winger, he might not be a traditional one like Sane but that is where he players. Bernardo has played 1 game at central midfield and every other appearance he's either played right wing (90% of the time) or played as a false 9. No way Bernardo plays the role Merlin or KDB do and we don't use a traditional no.10.

You also completely leave out the part that Pep has said we can use a 2 striker formation when Mendy is fit (like in the early games of the season) as we can't play 3 at the back with Delph not having the ability to cover the ground.

Here is Pep's actual quote on it:

"Both have different qualities - they deserve to play," said Guardiola. "They have a lot of games and they have to be ready. It is the toughest decision.
"Yeah in the moment we had Mendy [they could play together]. When you have Mendy, he can play wide and the winger can go inside.
"Fabian Delph cannot do that. Without Mendy, Leroy Sane has to go wide, which is why they don't play together.

This fits well with the formation and the way we played when Mendy was fit and bar the fake red card for Walker v Everton, I'd say results were pretty good with it. It also means in certain games Mendy and Walker become like wingers with Kun and Jesus running inside. We looked scary playing like this early in the season.

We need 6 world class wingers, 4 strikers and 3 world class XI's? You do realise a club can only register 25 players and of those 8 have to be home grown? Name a single club with 3 world class 11's. Actually name one with 2? We need 33 world class players, even though at most we can have 25 players over 21 and only 17 can be from outside England and the club? Quadruples across multiple seasons?

The club dropped a bollick by not having 33 world class players in a squad of 25 because if they did we would do multiple quadruples is hardly any pro-Sanchez argument.

B.Silva is more of a CM than a RW, thus considering the lack of decent CM's we seem have for a team aiming for all 4 trophies (1), if signing a player like Sanchez means we have to play him more as a CM (2) then I would be all in favour of it. Because we need all the good players we can get in those positions.

(1) Yes I know we have got D.Silva and KDB, but we can't play them in every single game (across a 60+ game season) and keep expecting the same excellent perofrmances, especially when the former needs to take time off to deal with the personal things that are going on in his life and in turn we cannot rely on Gündoğan to back them up (who has only get come back from an extended run of injuries)

(2) With him alongside Gündoğan rotating with KDB and D.Silva

Again you are plucking stuff out of thin air. Bernardo will not play CM at City unless we are stuck. I also thought he might if we used a no.10 but we don't and for now at least he's a RW. There is more chance of Foden playing there and he's tiny.

He also played mainly on the right wing at Monaco. Could he do a job at CM in the premier league? Not a hope. If we played a no.10 you'd have an argument but we don't. KDB and Silva both play as regular CM's. Silva a little bit further forward.

Sterling had that kind of attutide at Liverpool in his last season and then some when it came to his personal life, yet that on its own was not a barrier for our club signing him and considering how he has performed under Pep, I would be surprised if any of our fellow fans have any regrets signing him now. Thus if we are willing to sign Sterling (despite the issues he had) and have that transfer work out, then we should be willing to sign Sanchez on that basis.

Besides after all the effort he has put in game after game across the previous 3 seasons (and even this season), after the fact his almost singlehandly won the FA Cup last season (and beating us in the process) for them (1) and after being at many times being the only player that put his effort for the Arsenal. Can you blame him for acting out like that after having done all that, achieve very little and having to deal with a manager + owner who firstly both don't give a dam and secondly are both undermining both the team and the club as a whole.

(1) Despite the car crash that was Arsenal last season.

I disagree, Sterling was vilified by Rodgers and the media (and for a long time after the transfer but he never once downed tools for Liverpool.) He was treated absolutely horribly for wanting to leave "a great club" for a "rich one". Actually never have I seen a club manager try and do to a player what Rodgers did to Sterling.

It got nasty in the end but Rodgers (he of the fake tan and pearly whites) caused all that shite by constantly throwing Raheem rejecting new contracts into the media.

I'm of no doubt Sanchez would be a great player for us. I just don't like him personally and for me an on form Sanchez is in the top 5 players in the league. (Hazard, KDB, DDG, Kane and Sanchez for me).

But what happens when Pep wants to bench him? will he take it like Kun has? or Jesus? Sterling? Sane? Silva?. I really, really doubt he would mate. Can you imagine his being fine with being left out at Old Trafford or Anfield or wherever.

There is also the issue when Mendy is back we may switch back to a 3 at the back with no wingers, would he be fine watching Kun and Jesus getting a run of games ahead of him if they were both on form?

I just think the guy for all his talent brings more issues than needed when the area he's arriving for isn't broken or even struggling.

We have scored 90 goals in all competitions this season already. We are well on course to break 150.
I really don't see how we improve that rate by even a little with Alexis.

I would agree we need to get someone else to back up/rotate with Fernandinho, simply because he is without a doubt the most important player on the pitch for us and after how Yaya has performed for us (1), losing Fernandinho would put the League Title at risk.

However despite this, finding another DM is only one of the players we need to purchase to be able to have the 2 World Class XI's we need to have to reach the sort of sucess levels we need to reach (and maintain the same levels of peformance across a whole season). In fact we also need to be getting (in the next 2 transfer windows) 2 more Wingers, another Striker, another LB, another CM and 2 CB's as well. Likewise if Bravo does end up messing up (2) this season then we might need to get another goalkeeper as well.

(1) Considering how he has done in previous seasons it is such a shame he has declined so much...

(2) Which thank god he has not done this season, rather he has saved our arse in the League Cup 2 times in a row against both Wolves and Leicester.

I think he is our most important player but losing him could see us play Gundo at DM (as we've done a few times, when Fern went to CB) with Silva and KDB in front. We would still dominate all but the hardest games and still win the league comfortably given we'll only need about 24 points from 25 to get the job done.

Losing him though would indeed be certainly the end of our CL campaign (maybe not vs Basel) and I would say would put us well off in the FA Cup when United do get Alexis done. For what its worth I don't think we'll win anymore than 2 trophies this season (the league obviously being one of them and that alone would be an amazing season).

For this season yes, but as a long-term solution it is not something we should be trying to do. Simply while Delph is a good LB, I still don't think he is good enough to play for a team like City. After all while he has been reasonally solid if Rashford (1) can get past him then goodness knows how is going to fair against the best attacking talent Europe has to offer.

(1) Nothing against him personally, just that for all that he has achieved he is still a player who is developing into a World Class player as things stand, but he will get there soon enough.

Can't disagree with any of this but I think we have Maffeo to come back whose had some amazing games in La Liga (dealing well with Ronaldo while playing RB and Messi while playing LB). I also think Pep has plans for Zinchenko here too which is weird because I always saw the lad as a no.10.

I don't think we'll be signing a left back even though I agree that we need one.

Well, we are having problems since late November in keeping the performance levels as high as they were earlier in the season and quite frankly it is not going to get easier on us.

We have scored 2 goals in almost every game since late November, Newcastle and Palace aside. We have gotten through the roughest period in the season scoring 29 goals in 12 games.

Over the course of the season our poor christmas rate would be 92 total goals. We have also scored 4 goals, 3 games in a row over that period.

To put that in perspective over the same period
City have scored 29 and dropped 5 points.
Liverpool have scored 33 dropping 8 points.
United have scored 25 dropping 9 points.
Spurs have scored 24 dropping 15 points.
Chelsea have scored 22 dropping 11 points.

It was impossible to keep swatting teams aside, even Pep's great Barca team in La Liga won more games by the odd goal then 5-0. Over the toughest run of games and period of the season, we've still been the strongest team in the league (won at Old Trafford and thrashed Spurs) along with extending our lead. What more could you possibly want?

Alongside Sanchez, I would agree that a DM, a LB and CB are all essential buys in this trasnfer window. However I would also say that this window we should have outbid Liverpool for VVD quite frankly (1) and done the same for Coutinho as well (2). Both those signings and Sanchez would have done us a lot of favours in keeping our performance levels up in the second half of the season.

(1) Considering how short we are of decent CB's (and of course Kompany's injury issues), likewise I feel VVD made a big mistake in joining them considering what else they need to be both Premier League and Champions League contenders, something that require's addtional investment beyond Henry's means and will. After all for all the issues both United's and City's squad's have, they are still better (especially if United get Sanchez) in all departments than Liverpool's.

(2) The thing is for him, he has jointed a club that is going to have to do a lot of rebuilding squad wise as Messi reaches the Autumn of his career, just when they depend on him more than ever to carry the team forward. So the question that he should be asking is if is willing to both wait and hope they manage to pull it off (despite the cock-ups in the transfer department of late), a question that City should try and answer for him, because quite frankly we need a player like him in our club.

They aren't essential buys but they would be nice. I'd have liked VVD too but we spent most our budget during the summer window. Pep said toward the end of the window we had enough left for 1 player (which was supposed to be £60m Sanchez). Maybe that was as high as our budget allowed, the club have often said (not that many on here believe it) that we work within a budget (albeit a very large one.)

Pep obviously has huge faith in Stones and I think he has a man crush on Otamendi (who in fairness has been one of the best Cb's in the league this season.) I really don't think Jonny Evans is the answer either but maybe VVD isn't an option because he would like Alexis want to start every game and we are looking for players who would be happy to rotate.

For better or worse I think Pep has chosen Stones and Otamendi to be his CB pairing going forward and anyone whose brought in, will be to rotate and be 3rd/4th choice.

The thing is though, if we are going to find another attacking player which is as good as him (and even if we get Hazard and Kane, we would still need Sanchez), they are going to be costing a hell of a lot more then he is going for at the moment (1) and likely demand the same wages as well.

(1) And funny enough, less than Ox-Chamberlin cost in the summer transfer window (in terms of trasnfer fees).

Considering Chelsea's attacking issues, if anything they need Sanchez more than both United and City do (and for me that is saying something). Certainly he would be a much better buy than Carroll (although in his case, even Vardy would be a better choice).

I agree that even what United are getting Sanchez for is a good deal for him and would be for us, if he is a priority and really needed. For me he's not as we'll likely still score bucket load's and we're no more likely to win the CL with or without him (lets be honest, our attack is not whats going to knock us out of the CL).

I agree that if we really wanted him he would be good value. United are getting a great deal, considering they are getting most the cost covered by Mkhi and also making back 100k or so of his wage or getting rid of Mkhi (not sure what he's currently earning).

I also think its not the price that's putting us off as much as his agent coming back after ageeing a deal and saying "well the game has changed, we've got a better offer". Of course he's entitled to do this but we are also entitled to say "well if you don't wanna come for what was agreed in the summer, we're not interested". I can only think the reason we're annoyed about that is that there was a verbal agreement with Sanchez to get the deal done in January.

The issue with another player costing more in the summer doesn't matter, it is a new season, new budgets, new FFP season (see what PSG did with Mbappe to get around this). In reality its probably a lot more affordable for us to buy a striker/winger for £80m plus 200k wages in the summer then to buy Sanchez now. We are probably walking a fine line with FFP given our spending so far.

I would say Chelsea need Sanchez about as much as United but for me if Chelsea got Sanchez, a front 3 of Hazard, Sanchez and Morata is the best in the league by a margin (with 2 of the leagues top 5 players). A Lukaku, Martial, Sanchez trio is brilliant but I wouldn't rate it as highly, in fact I'd put it on a par with our trio and Liverpools. Chelseas would blow that out of the water (providing Morata gets his mojo back.)

Great post mate, welcome to the board, fun to answer even if it took me fecking ages lol. This place is a much better forum than your previous home as long as you learn to ignore certain eejits.

 

[charlie9882]

and you think that the agent of KdB etc wouldn't look at this deal and ask for more money with City?

Precisely why City were so reluctant to match anything United were willing to pay - City would have had no leverage when it comes to renewals with their top players if one of their teammates was on substantially more than the others.

KDB is very close to renewing at City which would make him the highest payed player at the club. Just because United are offering ridiculous wages to Sanchez doesn't mean KDB will be expecting them at City - quite the opposite given the stance the club has taken over Alexis. You're also comparing apples and oranges with Sanchez/KDB's situations - one wants, more than anything, to leave his current club and has leverage given he's free in the summer, the other is contracted until 2021, learning under arguably the best coach in the world, playing in one of top performing teams in Europe and by all accounts, is incredibly happy at City.

 

[padr81]

and you think that the agent of KdB etc wouldn't look at this deal and ask for more money with City?

The finer details of KDB's have already been sorted apparently and he has to win the CL to get Alexis like money. KDB will get a max 18m gross (including bonuses) if City hit every target (CL, PL and certain individual targets)
Also I haven't seen anyone taking the moral high ground.

 

[padr81]

This is one of the reasons for sure, but you seem to be convieniently overlooking the many other factors to consider when joining a new club - the majority of which seem to favour United.

His playing time will be considerably higher at United that it would at City.
His status as a key member of the first team will be secure, at City he will get lost among the crowd of attacking talent the club already possess.
The history of the 2 clubs is beyond comparison, United are streets ahead in this department.
Perhaps he considered the United project a more worthy cause. United being the more legitimate of the two clubs - no highly suspicious activity surrounding them or their owners.
Following on from the last point, he could be a human rights activist, in which case joining City was never an option. He simply used them as a "come get me plea" to Jose who responded in kind.

There are many many more.

I don't find myself often agreeing with you but your first 2 points I do agree on.

I don't think history matters nearly as much to modern footballers as it did maybe 10 years ago. We didn't sign top players like Aguero, Silva etc.. on the back of our history. PSG most certainly didn't sign Neymar on the back of history and dear I say most Real Madrids squad don't give a feck about their history (only the here and now). The history thing is just a line players can churn out.

I'll ignore your last 2 points as they were just wumming and you were doing so well at having a normal discussion there for a couple of sentences.

 

[el magico]

City fans trying to get moral highground over this deal are deluding themselves.

I don't think you can take any moral high-ground when it comes to transfers. I'm slightly disappointed that he's not coming to City but not devastated. Sanchez has chosen to join United and him/his agent/Arsenal are all getting a lot more money as a result. If on this occasion City have chosen not to meet his demands then so be it, time will tell if this is a line drawn in the sand or whether City will splash out in the future. One thing I would say is that City have had a coherent transfer strategy over recent seasons so it will be interesting who arrives this summer.

 

[Random Task]

I don't find myself often agreeing with you but your first 2 points I do agree on.

I don't think history matters nearly as much to modern footballers as it did maybe 10 years ago. We didn't sign top players like Aguero, Silva etc.. on the back of our history. PSG most certainly didn't sign Neymar on the back of history and dear I say most Real Madrids squad don't give a feck about their history (only the here and now). The history thing is just a line players can churn out.

I'll ignore your last 2 points as they were just wumming and you were doing so well at having a normal discussion there for a couple of sentences.

Who's to say what is normal these days?

Anyway, I'm a Liverpool fan now (apparently) so this United vs City debate is of little importance.

 

[padr81]

Who's to say what is normal these days?

Anyway, I'm a Liverpool fan now (apparently) so this United vs City debate is of little importance.

Lol mate, I missed the conversion, good luck with the new club. You'll love the passion of your manager.

 

[Random Task]

Lol mate, I missed the conversion, good luck with the new club. You'll love the passion of your manager.

You didn't miss much. Some of us dared believe that a Liverpool win over City might begin a collapse for the latter, allowing United back in to the title race. Apparently this makes us Scouse Lovers. Who knew?

At least next year will be our year!

 

[TheReligion]

£500k p/w, as confirmed by Simon Stone, is what you see as a fair price for a borderline world class player? Even if you take the lowest reported wage (journalists nowhere near as reliable as Stone) - £350k per week - he's still going to be the best payed player in the league.

What should a genuinely world class player be earning? Everyone on here would say Pogba is a world class player, not borderline - should he get a 'fair price' i.e, even more than Sanchez? You can bet Raiola will be ready to absolutely milk United.

Yes the reliable Stone who didn't see this deal coming a mile off and has got everything wrong throughout the saga.

No, it's the opposite. City agreed a deal with the player, then United came in and offered more money, at which point Sanchez's agent reneged on the City deal and said we'd have to basically match it to sign him; as the majority of reliable journalists have stated, had City done so, he'd have chosen City over United.

So City agree a deal with a player they shouldn't be even talking with then get upset when another club legitimately come in and speak to the player in January and change his mind. No wonder Wenger mentioned professionalism. Seems City have shown none.

The finer details of KDB's have already been sorted apparently and he has to win the CL to get Alexis like money. KDB will get a max 18m gross (including bonuses) if City hit every target (CL, PL and certain individual targets)
Also I haven't seen anyone taking the moral high ground.

Just like the Alexis deal was sorted out in the summer?

No one knows what Sanchez is being paid although I would imagine it's high given he's one of the best players in the PL and Europe.
City have spoken far too much about a player that turned them down when they would have been better served to take it on the chin and remain quiet. Making such a fuss and moan only highlights how hard done by they feel despite ignoring the fact they should never have been tapping the player up in the summer anyway! As both Klopp and Wenger have also said it's not just money. United are still the biggest pull in the PL and one of the biggest in the world. Accept it.

Finally when it comes to this deal it's not costing United anywhere near as much as being made out given the swap aspect. The deal is an absolute dream when you consider a) there is no transfer fee and b) Mikhitaryans wages are being removed from the clubs budget.

Irrespective of how people want to spin it United have got a fantastic deal for one of the very best.

 

[Manchester Dan]

What are you not getting here.

If Sanchez had waited till the summer he would have earned more going to you than coming to us. As a club you are operating in a financial vacuum. The financial package you would have offered would vastly outstrip what we have agreed to pay.

You agreed a deal in the Summer which fell through. You assured Sanchez that you would be back in for him so advised him to wait it out. You have gone back for him but decided to try to low ball him & Arsenal. This has been met with a negative reaction. We have entered the race & shown a bit of class. You have come back in but the damage has been done. Feathers have been truly ruffled & neither Sanchez or Arsenal will entertain doing business with you. To try & save face over this snub you put out a fake story that Chelsea had entered the bidding & the stakes were to high. Where this all falls down though is that nobody at City told Conte or Chelsea anything about the con trick you were trying to pull. You have also proven in the past that you pay whatever the asking club want's for their player. The stakes are never too high.

I think you are all caught up now.

Its weird that you have the highest wage bill of the two clubs yet think that the package we’ve offered would far outstrip yours (you’ve also then later said we’ve tried to low ball him - which one is it?). Clearly that isn’t always the case. The rest is just pure speculation.

For somebody being so condescending you might want to at the very least get your own message consistent, never mind avoiding making half of it up.

 

[TheReligion]

Its weird that you have the highest wage bill of the two clubs yet think that the package we’ve offered would far outstrip yours (you’ve also then later said we’ve tried to low ball him - which one is it?). Clearly that isn’t always the case. The rest is just pure speculation.

For somebody being so condescending you might want to at the very least get your own message consistent, never mind avoiding making half of it up.

Presume you're looking at Uniteds wage bill with Rooney on the books?

City, Chelsea and United are about equal however United generate far more revenue.

 

[BobbyManc]

Its weird that you have the highest wage bill of the two clubs yet think that the package we’ve offered would far outstrip yours (you’ve also then later said we’ve tried to low ball him - which one is it?). Clearly that isn’t always the case. The rest is just pure speculation.

For somebody being so condescending you might want to at the very least get your own message consistent, never mind avoiding making half of it up.

It's pretty funny to see such a blatant case of a player being a 'mercenary', a label I've never liked anyway, but one that's commonly used on here, yet there's a widespread self-delusion on here that it's not. I'm not criticising the cost of the deal, or Sanchez personally, but if people can't accept that the key factor here is money then they're living in a fantasy world.

 

[Manchester Dan]

Presume you're looking at Uniteds wage bill with Rooney on the books?

City, Chelsea and United are about equal however United generate far more revenue.

Just last reported, but either way it doesn’t lend itself to City offering wages that far outweigh what United would ever offer. In some cases we’d offer more, in others less, and in most cases nobody has got a clue - similar to the guy I responded to.

I don’t actually care about the wages, Kyle Walker is the perfect example that when a transfer works anything money related (his fee!) is forgotten. Sanchez is a great player and if he hits the ground running nobody will care what he gets paid. It’s only if he doesn’t perform it’ll get mentioned.

 

[TheReligion]

It's pretty funny to see such a blatant case of a player being a 'mercenary', a label I've never liked anyway, but one that's commonly used on here, yet there's a widespread self-delusion on here that it's not. I'm not criticising the cost of the deal, or Sanchez personally, but if people can't accept that the key factor here is money then they're living in a fantasy world.

It may be a key factor but it seems pretty obvious there are other key factors at play.

Those who can't accept that are living in a fantasy land.

 

[TheReligion]

Just last reported, but either way it doesn’t lend itself to City offering wages that far outweigh what United would ever offer. In some cases we’d offer more, in others less, and in most cases nobody has got a clue - similar to the guy I responded to.

I don’t actually care about the wages, Kyle Walker is the perfect example that when a transfer works anything money related (his fee!) is forgotten. Sanchez is a great player and if he hits the ground running nobody will care what he gets paid. It’s only if he doesn’t perform it’ll get mentioned.

I think the top and bottom of it is no one anywhere is going to have any sympathy for City, as shown by the interviews of Wenger and Klopp, given they are the biggest spending club in the league and have risen from nowhere due to billionaire owners.

That's why I'm baffled as to why the club didn't stay quiet. The handling of the media has been dreadful in my opinion.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

City fans trying to get moral highground over this deal are deluding themselves.

Don't disagree.
In my opinion (not claiming any ITK status) City have spent months unsettling Sanchez and had agreed a deal which Sanchez and his agent found very acceptable.
They then played hardball with Arsenal and only offered a figure that Wenger found acceptable only when the transfer window was close to closing and the deal got put on hold with a disgruntled Sanchez not offering his usual value to Arsenal.

Come January City then reduced the offer to Arsenal and expected the terms with the Sanchez camp to be unchanged.
United became aware of this and needed to make a statement signing after a subpar start to the season so decided to make their move.
City would not budge much to make it a contest and moved on leaving the field clear for United to clinch the signing.
Nobody comes out of this with any credit IMO.
Wenger has lost many players to City over the last few years and sees them as dirty players in the game. He's something of a hypocrite though.

 

[KM]

Don't disagree.
In my opinion (not claiming any ITK status) City have spent months unsettling Sanchez and had agreed a deal which Sanchez and his agent found very acceptable.
They then played hardball with Arsenal and only offered a figure that Wenger found acceptable when the transfer window was close to closing and it got put on hold.
City then reduced the offer to Arsenal and expected the terms with the Sanchez camp to be unchanged.
United became aware of this and needed to make a statement signing after a subpar start to the season.
City would not budge to make it a contest and moved on leaving the field clear for United to clinch the signing.
Nobody comes out of this with any credit IMO.

We haven't had a subpar start to the season, you lot have had an out of the world start.

In fact if you compare our start to other seasons after Fergie, then it's been excellent.

 

[Gentleman Jim]

We haven't had a subpar start to the season, you lot have had an out of the world start.

In fact if you compare our start to other seasons after Fergie, then it's been excellent.

Horses for courses mate.
The PL was almost over before Auld Lang Syne was sung. That wasn't in the script and a very expensive addition to the already costly squad was needed to provide an extra dimension.
I do believe that your Manager and his CL experience have a fair chance of going deep into that competition though.

 

[BlueSingh]

KDB's new 6 year extension deal rumored to be at 200k pw. Currently gets 120k pw.

 

[BobbyManc]

It may be a key factor but it seems pretty obvious there are other key factors at play.

Those who can't accept that are living in a fantasy land.

You have to question why your offer for Sanchez is substantially more than City's if these other factors are so important.

 

[Bearded One]

All this talk of money money money is doing my head in. I mean we aren't spending someone else's money we are spending OUR money. Can't figure out exactly why the media seems to be against us on this one but if a manager like Wenger who has been at logger heads with our manager in almost forever, would propagate the line, 'at least they are spending their money', then that would do me.

 

[Bearded One]

You have to question why your offer for Sanchez is substantially more than City's if these other factors are so important.

But I thought we were supposed to believe that Sanchez was desperate to play for Pep?

 

[SwansonsTache]

Quite some PR coup by City with them somehow making us the culprits for spending and being money fueled.

It is like the media have had collective amnesia about where the two clubs money actually come from.

This whole thing is like something out of the twillight zone where things get warped and nothing is what it seems.

Fecking lottery winners trying to take the moral high ground towards a club that has earned every penny, you couldn't make it up.

 

[finneh]

Yep, because you were willing to offer substantially more money to him, his agent and Arsenal

Offering £60m to Arsenal less than 5 months ago illustrates that you were more than happy to sanction a £125m deal.

It's clear though that after your start to the season and having already agreed personal terms, you believed that it was a one horse race. Your club probably felt you didn't need him as much as you thought and also thought Sanchez would either force at move at £20m and save you a fortune or wait until the Summer and save you even more.

January then comes and United see that the £125m deal that we were unwilling to match in the Summer has reduced substantially to a level whereby we can potentially sign him for an unwanted player and maybe £70m in wages, meaning the cost of the deal had reduced by around 25%

Essentially it's a combination of arrogance (assuming the deal was sewn up) and greed (arrogantly believing you were the only option so could save a fortune).

Truthfully if City offered the exact same deal as 5 months ago but with £35m to Arsenal and £25m to Sanchez instead United would have felt the deal was too costly (as they did in the Summer) and he'd be lining up against Newcastle tomorrow

 

[diarm]

You have to question why your offer for Sanchez is substantially more than City's if these other factors are so important.

City fans are among the first to dismiss shite journalism for what it is when they're making shit up about your transfer dealings. Surprising now that you are all so quick to swallow nonsense when it suits.

The only legitimate piece of reporting, by a trustworthy source that mentions a wage is Di Marzio saying 300k a week gross. Everything else has been bollocks pedalled without a decent source and to generate clicks.

Considering City were willing to pay 275k in the summer on top of a 60m fee I don't know what all the fuss is about.

 

[padr81]

Just like the Alexis deal was sorted out in the summer?

No one knows what Sanchez is being paid although I would imagine it's high given he's one of the best players in the PL and Europe.
City have spoken far too much about a player that turned them down when they would have been better served to take it on the chin and remain quiet. Making such a fuss and moan only highlights how hard done by they feel despite ignoring the fact they should never have been tapping the player up in the summer anyway! As both Klopp and Wenger have also said it's not just money. United are still the biggest pull in the PL and one of the biggest in the world. Accept it.

Finally when it comes to this deal it's not costing United anywhere near as much as being made out given the swap aspect. The deal is an absolute dream when you consider a) there is no transfer fee and b) Mikhitaryans wages are being removed from the clubs budget.

Irrespective of how people want to spin it United have got a fantastic deal for one of the very best.

Alexis walked away from his deal, maybe KDB will too but on last update. It's been reported numerous time KDB is taking a base salary of £200k approx (an £80k increase on the wage he has now), having his wages converted to Euro's because the pound is doing so poorly and being boosted by bonuses.

I find the City said this and that pushing on a bit (you've said it a few times now). I've actually searched since you said it and I haven't read one article where City said anything other then media reports on our end of the deal. Have you any links from City with actual quotes from staff members that say anything about the deal? The only official statement I have seen is Pep saying "congrats to Alexis and to United".

I don't think anyone is spinning it anyway. United did indeed get a fantastic deal, I haven't seen anyone on here say otherwise. But that deal would not have been a good one for City as a, we don't have a Mkhi to throw in the deal, all our wingers have a far higher value than £35m so we have no makeweight at all. b, the player had agreed terms and rightly wanted a better deal after being offered one elsewhere. We said "not for us", he said ok I'll go elsewhere seems the most likely and widely reported by just about the entire media. It's almost been reported money wasn't the issue at all and we just thought "Hey, we don't need him" as Pep was afraid it would upset the squad, unbalance the squad.

I'm pretty sure most people have said its a great deal for United, but it wouldn't have been for us.
Not to mention my already stated opinions on why I didn't want us to sign him. The swap aspect is what makes the deal so good for you imho, In reality its costing you £25m for his agent, nothing in fee and only an extra £250k per week in wages. It would have cost us £60m total before wages and £350k more wages.