Manchester City 17/18 discussion | "If you're here for the Champions clap your hands" (#6505)

[el magico]

The transfer world is now crazy, as we all know, and who knows where it will end. Chelsea changed things then City took it the next level, so that now price inflation on transfer fees and salaries has rocketed. Fifty million isn't considered out of the ordinary now.

Although, if we look at this attempt to adjust transfer fees based on inflation a certain club that you don't mention features very prominently, with a lot of those fees occurring well before Abramovich took over at Chelsea...

https://tomkinstimes.com/2017/07/shock-transfers-now-cost-more-plus-top-100-signings-after-inflation

 

[haram]

Not sure if you've ever heard the story behind us signing Silva and Yaya Toure. We were locked in negotiations with both of them but we needed something extra to get them across the line, so Garry Cook (the er, genius that he was) lied to both of them. He told Yaya we'd already signed Silva, and he told Silva we'd already acquired Yaya. They both signed and the rest is history.

Yeah, that's not the reason why they signed.

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

Although, if we look at this attempt to adjust transfer fees based on inflation a certain club that you don't mention features very prominently, with a lot of those fees occurring well before Abramovich took over at Chelsea...

https://tomkinstimes.com/2017/07/shock-transfers-now-cost-more-plus-top-100-signings-after-inflation

To be fair, United have always had to pay over the odds, as the richest club in the country, and that was only for the very best players. Abramovich's arrival at Chelsea was a game-changer.

 

[BobbyManc]

What did City have to offer when signing Aguero and Silva really?

To be fair Silva and Aguero had zero reason to join City other than money.

It's hard to say that there is no reason to join United other than money.

Erm, trophies? Silva won an FA Cup in his first season and helped us qualify for CL football. Aguero won the league in his first season. But yeah, obviously we could only offer them money, clearly they were never gonna win anything.

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

Erm, trophies? Silva won an FA Cup in his first season and helped us qualify for CL football. Aguero won the league in his first season. But yeah, obviously we could only offer them money, clearly they were never gonna win anything.

That cuts both ways, Bobby. Surely you must acknowledge that Sanchez will believe he can trophies at United, and money isn't his only thought?

 

[haram]

Erm, trophies? Silva won an FA Cup in his first season and helped us qualify for CL football. Aguero won the league in his first season. But yeah, obviously we could only offer them money, clearly they were never gonna win anything.

City never proved they could win trophies consistently. Man United have won 3 trophies in the last 2 years, and have a rich trophy winning history.

Yet, Sanchez is joining us for money, while Silva and Aguero joined city to win trophies. Ok.

 

[BobbyManc]

That cuts both ways, Bobby. Surely you must acknowledge that Sanchez will believe he can trophies at United, and money isn't his only thought?

Never said it wasn't. All I said was the decisive factor in his decision to join United was money, which all credible reports seem to suggest was the case.

City never proved they could win trophies consistently. Man United have won 3 trophies in the last 2 years, and have a rich trophy winning history.

Yet, Sanchez is joining us for money, while Silva and Aguero joined city to win trophies. Ok.

No but Aguero/Silva rightly believed with the players we had that we could consistently challenge for trophies, which we have done. Of course money was a huge factor too, but they wouldn't have signed without the belief they could win trophies. Same applies to Sanchez, as I never said money was his only motivator.

 

[Sarni]

Erm, trophies? Silva won an FA Cup in his first season and helped us qualify for CL football. Aguero won the league in his first season. But yeah, obviously we could only offer them money, clearly they were never gonna win anything.

So they joined a team that hadn't won a trophy for years?

They could have joined a lot of teams better positioned to win a trophy. Virtually all teams that would be interested in them would have been those who are consistently in contention.

 

[Ananke]

Never said it wasn't. All I said was the decisive factor in his decision to join United was money, which all credible reports seem to suggest was the case.

No but Aguero/Silva rightly believed with the players we had that we could consistently challenge for trophies, which we have done. Of course money was a huge factor too, but they wouldn't have signed without the belief they could win trophies. Same applies to Sanchez, as I never said money was his only motivator.

So basically, footballers sign mainly for money and then other reasons come afterwards. Isn't that pretty much anyone in the footballing world now? Well, that's a rhetorical question haha.

Why didn't City match it? Because they can, to say they had a gentleman's agreement and they're taking the high road is absurd really. Rival in the league, local rival, and you're not going to match them toe for toe on salary/fee? In the footballing world where money does matter? Because if City match our bid, then supposedly he goes to City. That money is peanuts for them right?

 

[Salus Populi Suprema Lex]

I think you're splitting hairs, Bobby. The scenarios are very similar.

 

[robinamicrowave]

Yeah, that's not the reason why they signed.

It's not the only reason - £££££££££££££ and the potential of winning things - but it's a true story.

 

[BobbyManc]

So basically, footballers sign mainly for money and then other reasons come afterwards. Isn't that pretty much anyone in the footballing world now? Well, that's a rhetorical question haha.

Why didn't City match it? Because they can, to say they had a gentleman's agreement and they're taking the high road is absurd really. Rival in the league, local rival, and you're not going to match them toe for toe on salary/fee? In the footballing world where money does matter? Because if City match our bid, then supposedly he goes to City. That money is peanuts for them right?

Well then, evidently because we didn't want to, with the most common explanation being it would have put him on more than de Bruyne when he does not justify that.

So they joined a team that hadn't won a trophy for years?

They could have joined a lot of teams better positioned to win a trophy. Virtually all teams that would be interested in them would have been those who are consistently in contention.

No, they joined a team they believed, correctly, that could win trophies. What we had done in the past was irrelevant to the quality of the current squad.

I think you're splitting hairs, Bobby. The scenarios are very similar.

That's kind of my point. The amount of times the likes of Aguero and Silva get labelled mercenaries, yet the sheer thought of a player joining United primarily for money is anathema to fans on here, in spite of the overwhelming evidence that he's as much a 'mercenary' as anybody else (as I said, a label I've never liked anyway)

 

[TheReligion]

He's chosen United because they offered more money. The likes of the BBC and Maks Cardenas both reported he'd prefer to move to City. They're as reliable as it gets in general and in terms of the Chile national team. The amount of City players I've seen called mercenaries on here, from Silva to Aguero, yet look at the umbrage as soon as it's suggested a player's gone to United with the primary motive being financial.

I'm sorry but you're making things up. Cardenas said he wanted to join City when they were the only team in for him during the summer and before United became interested.

I think you just need to accept the player picked United instead of believing what you want to believe. United are the biggest pull in England and one of the biggest in the world. The likes of Alexis has grown up with United dominance and clearly admires the club and its history. When it comes to money the deal has actually cost very little when you consider Mkhi went the other way.

Sir Alex Ferguson, the greatest manager of all time, greeted him at Carrington the other day. If you were to bring your most successful gaffer to welcome a player you'd have had to fly in Roberto Mancini.

Just let that sink in for a minute.

 

[BobbyManc]

I'm sorry but you're making things up. Cardenas said he wanted to join City when they were the only team in for him during the summer and before United became interested.

I think you just need to accept the player picked United instead of believing what you want to believe. United are the biggest pull in England and one of the biggest in the world. The likes of Alexis has grown up with United dominance and clearly admires the club and its history. When it comes to money the deal has actually cost very little when you consider Mkhi went the other way.

Sir Alex Ferguson, the greatest manager of all time, greeted him at Carrington the other day. If you were to bring your most successful gaffer to welcome a player you'd have had to fly in Roberto Mancini.

Just let that sink in for a minute.

Nope, Cardenas said United had also made their interest known in September, as had Bayern and PSG, but Sanchez told them he had agreed to join City. Let me guess, now all of a sudden Cardenas is not a credible journalist?

It's ok mate, you continue to live in your little fantasy land where every boy grows up dreaming of playing for Manchester United, and I'll continue to live in the real world, where the vast majority of players will make a decision based on the money they're offered and their prospect of winning trophies.

 

[TheReligion]

Nope, Cardenas said United had also made their interest known in September, as had Bayern and PSG, but Sanchez told them he had agreed to join City. Let me guess, now all of a sudden Cardenas is not a credible journalist?

It's ok mate, you continue to live in your little fantasy land where every boy grows up dreaming of playing for Manchester United, and I'll continue to live in the real world, where the vast majority of players will make a decision based on the money they're offered and their prospect of winning trophies.

When we're United interested? News to me and I'm a red. We were persuing Perisic in the summer last time I checked and went all in on Lukaku.

You're very bitter about this. Understandable though. Not nice getting rejected but you don't overly need him so not sure why you're so salty.

 

[BobbyManc]

When we're United interested? News to me and I'm a red. We were persuing Perisic in the summer last time I checked and went all in on Lukaku.

You're very bitter about this. Understandable though. Not nice getting rejected but you don't overly need him so not sure why you're so salty.

I'm merely pointing out the reality that a lot of fans want to deny which is that all credible reports made it quite clear Sanchez would have joined City if it wasn't for United offering more money.

 

[padr81]

If we go deep in all comps anyone think kun will get his 200 this season. Must be around 185 now.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

Erm, trophies? Silva won an FA Cup in his first season and helped us qualify for CL football. Aguero won the league in his first season. But yeah, obviously we could only offer them money, clearly they were never gonna win anything.

Aguero and Silva joined a club they’d never even heard of because you offered them the most money. Let’s just be honest about it mate. They stayed because you followed that same strategy with more players in order to build a team.

Do you think Sanchez had even heard of Manchester City as a child growing up?

 

[adexkola]

They may be the best counter-attacking side in Europe (on form) at the moment.

 

[TheReligion]

I'm merely pointing out the reality that a lot of fans want to deny which is that all credible reports made it quite clear Sanchez would have joined City if it wasn't for United offering more money.

Is that photo of Alexis in a City tracksuit knocking about?

 

[Fridge chutney]

Is that photo of Alexis in a City tracksuit knocking about?

Exactly. The most credible report himself, Sanchez, put the notion or preferring Pep and City to bed. Once United came in for him, Sanchez chose United. Not sure why people don't understand this.

 

[EyeInTheSky]

Aguero and Silva joined a club they’d never even heard of because you offered them the most money. Let’s just be honest about it mate. They stayed because you followed that same strategy with more players in order to build a team.

Do you think Sanchez had even heard of Manchester City as a child growing up?

They were in the 3rd division of English football when he was growing up mate.

 

[Ban]

Credible reports being Ballbag or?

 

[BobbyManc]

Credible reports being Ballbag or?

He's probably the least credible of all the mainstream journalists.

 

[padr81]

They were in the 3rd division of English football when he was growing up mate.

He was only growing up for 1 year?

 

[VanGaalEra]

They’re going to spend 70M (Euros) on Laporte (roughly £62M).

What will that take Lord Pep’s spend to during his 18 months at City? Must be about £450M+.

According to Transfermarkt (222.12M spent last summer and 191.7M the season before). Add the £62M for Laporte and you get £475.82M in 18 months.

Staggering really. Only took a week for them to lose their Morals.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

So including GKs, guardiola will have spent £285m on defense alone!

Wow. Surprised that the more switched on city fans aren't raising an eyebrow over that.

But let us not forget...

"These are noble signings, for noble people, there's nothing for cash here!"

 

[BlueSingh]

They’re going to spend 70M (Euros) on Laporte (roughly £62M).

What will that take Lord Pep’s spend to during his 18 months at City? Must be about £450M+.

According to Transfermarkt (222.12M spent last summer and 191.7M the season before). Add the £62M for Laporte and you get £475.82M in 18 months.

Staggering really. Only took a week for them to lose their Morals.

Kinda justified with the way the team is playing though, there are some others around who've spent likewise but the end product is kick and hope football mostly relying on individual brilliance

 

[VanGaalEra]

Kinda justified with the way the team is playing though, there are some others around who've spent likewise but the end product is kick and hope football mostly relying on individual brilliance

Name another team that's spent close to 500M in 18 months.

 

[Crustanoid]

Tbh if Nottingham Forest were in the PL and had the money you could reason the likes of Silva, Aguero and De Bruyne would have chosen them over City at the time.

 

[roonster09]

Kinda justified with the way the team is playing though, there are some others around who've spent likewise but the end product is kick and hope football mostly relying on individual brilliance

Yeah Pep doesn't reply on individual brilliance.

 

[Thunderhead]

Kinda justified with the way the team is playing though, there are some others around who've spent likewise but the end product is kick and hope football mostly relying on individual brilliance

like I put on another thread, averaged out it's less than £30m per player and the average age of the players purchased is 23 and I'd argue we'd recoup the money spent easily even allowing for duff buys like Bravo and Nolito, United's signings in the same time average out at £36m per season and an average age of 27.5

 

[acnumber9]

Although, if we look at this attempt to adjust transfer fees based on inflation a certain club that you don't mention features very prominently, with a lot of those fees occurring well before Abramovich took over at Chelsea...

https://tomkinstimes.com/2017/07/shock-transfers-now-cost-more-plus-top-100-signings-after-inflation

Of the top 20 Chelsea feature 10 times. Of the whole 100 only four players signed for United pre Anramovich. It clearly doesn’t prove what you’re claiming it proves.

 

[roonster09]

like I put on another thread, averaged out it's less than £30m per player and the average age of the players purchased is 23 and I'd argue we'd recoup the money spent easily even allowing for duff buys like Bravo and Nolito, United's signings in the same time average out at £36m per season and an average age of 27.5

Doesn't make sense when you consider City signed so many young players who are sent on loan.

 

[AmanNits04]

Never said it wasn't. All I said was the decisive factor in his decision to join United was money, which all credible reports seem to suggest was the case.


No but Aguero/Silva rightly believed with the players we had that we could consistently challenge for trophies, which we have done. Of course money was a huge factor too, but they wouldn't have signed without the belief they could win trophies. Same applies to Sanchez, as I never said money was his only motivator.

How about playing in the first in almost every match.How about being the main man in a team which is starting to resurface post Fergie and have a good chance of winning trophies(we did it last year). How about working with a manger who is top 3 in the world. How about getting a chance to move up from Arsenal and go to a club which has better aspirations, how about wearing an iconic shirt which was previously worn by some of the best players in the history of the game. No, not even one out of all these factors could have played a decisive role in choosing United but it was Money.

You mention in your post that Aguero and Silva joined because there was a chance to win trophies too and city have won a few them, guess what, so have United. With the personal we have I would say we have a bright chance to challenge consistently, yet when Aguero and Silva do it, it's for the trophies but when Sanchez does it then money is the decisive factor.

What sources are you talking about, the ones who reported that Sanchez would be earning 600,000 pounds a week or the outlet who says that the real cost of signing him is 180million pounds. I remember Kyle Walker costed you about 100 million pounds according to one of those reliable tabloids. We all know how nefarious media is when it comes to this as they just want more clicks.

Let's just cut all this nonsense of money being the most important thing here because we are not some small time club, We are Man united, city can't even begin to fathom the reach that United has.

 

[Thunderhead]

Doesn't make sense when you consider City signed so many young players who are sent on loan.

Only 2 who have gone on loan who have been signed lately are Moreno and Luiz. Sane, Jesus, Zinchenko are the other u23 players who are part of the first team squad

 

[OverratedOpinion]

City fans on here calling our players mercenaries. Now I've seen it all.

The general attitude is an interesting one. Like some lottery winner demanding the same respect as a self made millionaire.

 

[roonster09]

Only 2 who have gone on loan who have been signed lately are Moreno and Luiz. Sane, Jesus, Zinchenko are the other u23 players who are part of the first team squad

Douglas Luiz
Kayode
Ilic
Moreno
Ruli
Mari

How many mins these players played?

 

[Adisa]

Their spending power is on another planet.

 

[Thunderhead]

Douglas Luiz
Kayode
Ilic
Moreno
Ruli
Mari

How many mins these players played?

fair enough, we don't own Ruli, we flogged him to Sociedad but have a buy back clause, Kayode and Mari I'd never heard of and forgot about Ilic