Manchester City 17/18 discussion | "If you're here for the Champions clap your hands" (#6505)

OverratedOpinion said:
The Bundesliga is the way it is because there are no teams remotely close in size. In England Arsenal and Liverpool are huge clubs. We are much more comparable to La Liga and even then there is no third club as big as Arsenal or Liverpool.

When Sir Alex was still around we really weren't that much less dominant than before Roman came in other than a couple of years rebuilding where Arsenal's "invincibles" would have won the league anyway. There was always going to be a vacuum when Fergie retired and it would have been Arsenal and Liverpool filling it.

You can honestly look at it whatever way you need to though, sugar daddies are not a good thing for the game and they are not the only way that clubs can grow. I am sure you are very fond of them and I can't blame you but that doesn't change the way clubs have grown and competed cyclically for 100 years.
Click to expand...

No team is close on United's size in England, be real. Even as a City fan I can openly admit that, United are far and away the biggest club.

Arsenal and Liverpool can't compete and couldn't. The closest Liverpool came to winning the league was after City and Chelsea's money they'd have filled nothing but become the 3rd place go to team with United cruising home.

100 years ago has no bearing on modern football. The rich have gotten richer, the gap is great and the only inroads can be made by sugar daddy. Take Dortmund, 2 great seasons after years of building, all of a sudden their entire squad is pulled apart. Atletico rise back up, win a title and all of a sudden Barca and in particular Real wake up and are like "Screw this..". Monaco etc...

If football is cyclical and teams can rise up again explain Ajax, PSV, Galtasaray, Marseille etc..., football is slowly becoming a G14 have what they want and the rich get richer. While I'm not trying to champion sugar daddies, they are the only alternative. Any club who didn't squeeze in the door at the time PSG, City did will never make it. Mark my words, the gap and number of trophies between the haves and have nots will get far, far great in the next few years. In 10 years time the BL will be something like 15 in a row for Bayern, La Liga will have no interruption to the top 2 dominance, PSG will drop feck all. Only England and Italy (to an extent will remain competitive).

There is more chance of Wolves winning a trophy and becoming a regular feature at the top than there ever will be for a Southampton
 
padr81 said:
a66zpno3nuc01.jpg


But according to some they are divers and roll around. Those tackles are all in the last 6 weeks. Pep is right to be furious.
Click to expand...

Any side could put together a montage like that. Sanchez was kicked up and down the pitch against Yeovil. It’s just City think they deserve special treatment.
 
RyRy11 said:
All rightful reds so I doubt any sane person can call them dives. You got to get used to this sort of treatment by other teams when you get compared to the second coming of Christ.. when they cant cant compete some teams attempt to bully you off the pitch.
Click to expand...

Yup but not one of them given. While I agree our players go down easy in general to say we're a team of divers is false. We get kicked to bits, with eejits saying that every blatant, petulant kick is a dive etc... Honestly the only games since the start of December where we haven't faced that is Liverpool and United. Two our our closest.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Any side could put together a montage like that. Sanchez was kicked up and down the pitch against Yeovil. It’s just City think they deserve special treatment.
Click to expand...

Those are 6 leg breaking tackles since mid December, not a regular kicking up and down the pitch. If anyone has 6 images like that of United players on the receiving end (or any team) since mid December, I'd love to see it.
 
padr81 said:
Those are 6 leg breaking tackles since mid December, not a regular kicking up and down the pitch. If anyone has 6 images like that of United players on the receiving end (or any team) since mid December, I'd love to see it.
Click to expand...

United fans aren’t sad enough to to do that. Sanchez was completely wiped out in one challenge. Mourinho’s comment after the game was.

“I was impressed with his attitude. I did my job well and told the players they should be ready for that [heavy tackles] and never react because sometimes the top players lose their head and balance in these matches, and then can be punished. I understand the decision not to show the red card because this is a special day, and 10 against 11 in that moment is game over. So I understand Paul’s decision‘
 
padr81 said:
Those are 6 leg breaking tackles since mid December, not a regular kicking up and down the pitch. If anyone has 6 images like that of United players on the receiving end (or any team) since mid December, I'd love to see it.
Click to expand...
Your ex-player Michael Brown did a nice job on Ryan Giggs.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Your ex-player Michael Brown did a nice job on Ryan Giggs.
Click to expand...

He did indeed as did that Cork bollix that played for you guys on Haaland, deliberately. Bad tackles happen, It's the sheer number of them that have gone unpunished in the last few weeks that is grating with Pep.
 
padr81 said:
He did indeed as did that Cork bollix that plays for you guys on Haaland, deliberately. Bad tackles happen, It's the sheer number of them that have gone unpunished in the last few weeks that is grating with Pep.
Click to expand...
Then they have to make sure you can look at things again, including yellow cards for bad tackles.
 
From reading that Pep quote about needing 22 top players. I don't think he to as saying he needs 22 top players. He was saying you either need luck or 22 players to win all 4 competitions. Still think he is still sticking with his statement that they will not win all 4 competition, but now with the caveat if they do do it. It is down to luck.

Not saying I agree with him and think it's a rather bizarre remark that comes off poorly, but it has been twisted to make it worse off then it was in context on here.
 
padr81 said:
He did indeed as did that Cork bollix that played for you guys on Haaland, deliberately. Bad tackles happen, It's the sheer number of them that have gone unpunished in the last few weeks that is grating with Pep.
Click to expand...

There have been a few bad ones. His moaning won’t help much. I thought the lad should have been sent off in the first half today tbh, although it didn’t look too bad in real time. VAR would help that.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Then they have to make sure you can look at things again, including yellow cards for bad tackles.
Click to expand...

100%, its not a oh poor City thing. It's the issue, refs are letting players throw leg breakers (as Pep said not just at City) with no reprecussion's. Then people are wondering why players over react when the fecker whose after trying to break in on them again.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
There have been a few bad ones. His moaning won’t help much. I thought the lad should have been sent off in the first half today tbh, although it didn’t look too bad in real time. VAR would help that.
Click to expand...

Agreed, as I said its not a City thing, it has been let slide more vs us in the last few weeks because the notion the team dives. Of course a player is going to overreact to get a man sent off, when the same player got away with a leg breaker 5 minutes before hand because the victim didn't over react. Btw, I say this as someone who twice today gave out at Otamendi I think it was for acting and Diaz, but if its the only way to get the right decision what can players do.
 
padr81 said:
No team is close on United's size in England, be real. Even as a City fan I can openly admit that, United are far and away the biggest club.

Arsenal and Liverpool can't compete and couldn't. The closest Liverpool came to winning the league was after City and Chelsea's money they'd have filled nothing but become the 3rd place go to team with United cruising home.

100 years ago has no bearing on modern football. The rich have gotten richer, the gap is great and the only inroads can be made by sugar daddy. Take Dortmund, 2 great seasons after years of building, all of a sudden their entire squad is pulled apart. Atletico rise back up, win a title and all of a sudden Barca and in particular Real wake up and are like "Screw this..". Monaco etc...

If football is cyclical and teams can rise up again explain Ajax, PSV, Galtasaray, Marseille etc..., football is slowly becoming a G14 have what they want and the rich get richer. While I'm not trying to champion sugar daddies, they are the only alternative. Any club who didn't squeeze in the door at the time PSG, City did will never make it. Mark my words, the gap and number of trophies between the haves and have nots will get far, far great in the next few years. In 10 years time the BL will be something like 15 in a row for Bayern, La Liga will have no interruption to the top 2 dominance, PSG will drop feck all. Only England and Italy (to an extent will remain competitive).

There is more chance of Wolves winning a trophy and becoming a regular feature at the top than there ever will be for a Southampton
Click to expand...

United are bigger than Arsenal and Liverpool. The difference is nowhere near as big as the difference between Bayern and the second and third largest clubs in Germany. Yes exactly Liverpool were a close second to City under Rodgers when Sir Alex left. Indicating they would have won it if not for City.

"Last 100 years" including the past few seasons where Atletico, Dortmund, Leicester, Wolsburg and Monaco have all won the league, some on multiple occasions.

This has been proven again and again over the years. You talk about hypotheticals with so much certainty it is ridiculous, in the same way it was ridiculous when everyone and their dog in 2007 said that the top 4 would always be the top 4, that Spurs for example would never become a fixture of it. Football changes rapidly, Liverpool won everything in site forever and that was never going to change until some bloke from Aberdeen changed it all.

You need to take a step back and realise you are arguing that sugar daddies are good for football. I know you understandably love them but take a look from the outside.

P.S. The only thing giving every club below us and Chelsea a chance is the TV Money. Which is near enough a direct result of Man Utd's success, you might not want to see Man United win everything but broadly speaking the world disagrees. The Bundesliga viewership has also gone up consistently over the last few years.
 
Just saw the tackle on Sane - wtf was that idiot thinking about ?

Pep absolutely right there to be mad
 
padr81 said:
a66zpno3nuc01.jpg


But according to some they are divers and roll around. Those tackles are all in the last 6 weeks. Pep is right to be furious.
Click to expand...

The City team is obviously trained to dive in true Barce fashion. Just because your players also got genuinely kicked in these instances doesn't change that
 
RyRy11 said:
All rightful reds so I doubt any sane person can call them dives. You got to get used to this sort of treatment by other teams when you get compared to the second coming of Christ.. when they cant cant compete some teams attempt to bully you off the pitch.
Click to expand...

Pep's Barcelona would face similar, it's a form of handicapping/kneecapping
 
WackyWengerWorld said:
The City team is obviously trained to dive in true Barce fashion. Just because your players also got genuinely kicked in these instances doesn't change that
Click to expand...

Just shows what a fantastic coach Pep is, still finds the time to train them on how to dive in between improving them as players.
 
padr81 said:
I don't underestimate what Jose inherited and I think he's done brilliant in rebuilding, I think the opposite, people on here really overestimate the City Pep inherited (myself included), lets be honest if it wasn't for Chelsea downing tools a their team who are good but not amazing would be on 3 premier league titles in a row. Pelligrini single handedly took City's progression back 2-3 years, just look at the clubs Pellers players are now at..
Click to expand...

Not at all denying Pep has done a massive job. We rival fans can all be jealous and deny the fact but the truth is Pep has done a remarkable job. But I think it is not a given that HAD PEP joined united he would have dominated the league. Having seen how Pep's style works and his demand, he would have had to much more to here to dominate, just like Jose is finding out.
 
AshRK said:
Not at all denying Pep has done a massive job. We rival fans can all be jealous and deny the fact but the truth is Pep has done a remarkable job. But I think it is not a given that HAD PEP joined united he would have dominated the league. Having seen how Pep's style works and his demand, he would have had to much more to here to dominate, just like Jose is finding out.
Click to expand...

He'd have to do more with the attack less with the defence. My point overall is they started in similar places and despite our lead I would say we are in similar places still. I still believe though Pep with a couple of is signings could do this at United. You also have to consider United brought in and still had a few LVG styled players who would take to Pep's system like ducks to water.

We've had an amazing first half of the season but we're not Pep's Barca or Bayern yet. There is less between United and City now than the table suggests and I would say the squads are of similar quality now (as they were when they came in). Do I believe if the managers had taken opposite roles the table would be different. I do as long as Pep got around £300m to spend. I also believe Jose if at City would turn Otamendi and Kompany into a genuinely world class partnership (at his style), would love someone like Fernandinho and would find use for Mangala.

Thats not to say Pep is a far superior manager than Jose, its just armed with a war chest and top players I find Pep's teams will hit a higher ceiling because they are bold and adventurous. they will likely lose a couple of clangers but will pick up so many wins in games where Jose would take a draw that the table would be reversed. I also firmly believe Jose is a better manager in knockout football (which is why I tipped United to go further than us in the CL).
 
I'm far from a guardiola fan, but in this instance I agree with him.

Those 2 tackles are really dangerous, and could've had been seriously bad.

I felt the same at Yeovil with the Sanchez tackle - should've been a red.
 
Ye, don't think that's even debatable, was a terrible tackle and Pep was right to be furious. Challenges like that need to have harsher consequences.
 
Rhyme Animal said:
I'm far from a guardiola fan, but in this instance I agree with him.

Those 2 tackles are really dangerous, and could've had been seriously bad.

I felt the same at Yeovil with the Sanchez tackle - should've been a red.
Click to expand...

Exactly, plus I think the excuse of someone like Warnock with his "this is England.." rubbish makes it worse. Just because a team is shit or worse doesn't give them a free pass to break legs. That image I posted, thats 5 potential broken legs for City players since mid December. Just imagine a city side without KDB, Sane, Sterling, Gundogan, Jesus along with the already semi available Silva.

On the Sanchez one, that could have been a season ender too. You've just signed a player who will put you in the frame for what trophies are left this season, he makes his debut and some borderline part time fireman decides "Right, I'll show him what its like to play lower league football", ends his season costs you millions and the ref is like, "but he's playing for the underdog, good old british tackle, no punishment". Crazy.
 
padr81 said:
Exactly, plus I think the excuse of someone like Warnock with his "this is England.." rubbish makes it worse. Just because a team is shit or worse doesn't give them a free pass to break legs. That image I posted, thats 5 potential broken legs for City players since mid December. Just imagine a city side without KDB, Sane, Sterling, Gundogan, Jesus along with the already semi available Silva.

On the Sanchez one, that could have been a season ender too. You've just signed a player who will put you in the frame for what trophies are left this season, he makes his debut and some borderline part time fireman decides "Right, I'll show him what its like to play lower league football", ends his season costs you millions and the ref is like, "but he's playing for the underdog, good old british tackle, no punishment". Crazy.
Click to expand...
Hard brexit tackle
 
padr81 said:
And name one team who have come close to the quadruple without 22 players, because there are none who have.

Uniteds treble was amazing and as close as any have come, but it was an amazing treble with the best manager of all time in a different era and the stars absolutely alligned for you guys that season. So many later comebacks...
of course theres the CL final which was amazing (still better than Istanbul imho),
but also vs Juve (another absolute miracle).
last game of the league vs Spurs,
Arsenal after extra time in the cup.

that team was also running on empty towards the end of the season and had 4 draws in the last 8 league games. Best english team of all time by a long margin with the best manager of all time and even then everything had to fall their way just to do the treble

Do you think that team would get a look in at a quad in modern football? even with Fergie.

As good an all as that team was they fell 3 games short and just about won what they won.

No club without a stupidly expensive squad (and yes i say this as City and United both have £700m pound squads) will get through it or go close in the modern game. It's just not possible.
Click to expand...

Correct, it is impossible to play 11 first team every game. I am pretty sure there is a team came close to the quadruple is United 2008-9, could achieve this if winning 3 games we lost in the competition. at least 18-20 players played 20+ games for United in all competition that season.
 
padr81 said:
I don't underestimate what Jose inherited and I think he's done brilliant in rebuilding, I think the opposite, people on here really overestimate the City Pep inherited (myself included), lets be honest if it wasn't for Chelsea downing tools a their team who are good but not amazing would be on 3 premier league titles in a row. Pelligrini single handedly took City's progression back 2-3 years, just look at the clubs Pellers players are now at..
Click to expand...

You mean KDB, Otamendi, Fernandinho and Sterling?
 
padr81 said:
Yup the B'Mouth 4-0 over X-mas.
Click to expand...

Strange as it very much looks like the vitality on a sunny August opening day. That's without mentioning there are too many fans for that to be the emptihad
 
I can not understand arguing so adamantly in favour of what he has said. It's so arbitrary- are 20 top players enough? 21? 19? People suddenly start speaking as if a 22 top player requirement is some sort of universal truth. Forget about even defining what a top player is. He's pulled it from his ass.

Can you develop a top player from your youth system. Can you sign a bargain and show some savvy in the market?if you want to entertain the absurd '22 played' discussion It's just embarrassing to suggest the only way to assemble them is to splurge a fortune on every single one.

Just another case of Guardiola saying something and his worshippers fighting his corner. As I said initially he's completely out of line suggesting money hampers their ambitions in any way and in the same way he chastised a Southampton player for playing a certain way after coming close to a valuable point it stinks to high heaven of an arrogant guy way out of touch with the reality of many managers and clubs.

The final absurd point that city fans seen to trot out as some sort of evidence of not splurging money unmatched in football history is "oh well we've never signed an 80 million pound player".- so fecking what what exactly does this prove? Are several 50m plus players not enough? Over a billion is over a billion no matter how you try spin it. In fact since the initial Ronaldo fee nearly a decade ago there's been how many plus 80 million players? 5-6? City's threadbare conditions they attach to any discussion about spending just smacks of a club and fan base with a complex over how they've bought their success. Accept it and enjoy it.
 
padr81 said:
Exactly, plus I think the excuse of someone like Warnock with his "this is England.." rubbish makes it worse. Just because a team is shit or worse doesn't give them a free pass to break legs. That image I posted, thats 5 potential broken legs for City players since mid December. Just imagine a city side without KDB, Sane, Sterling, Gundogan, Jesus along with the already semi available Silva.

On the Sanchez one, that could have been a season ender too. You've just signed a player who will put you in the frame for what trophies are left this season, he makes his debut and some borderline part time fireman decides "Right, I'll show him what its like to play lower league football", ends his season costs you millions and the ref is like, "but he's playing for the underdog, good old british tackle, no punishment". Crazy.
Click to expand...

Completely agree, I've always hated this type of mentality in the English game. It used to do my head in when Ronaldo was at United getting lumps kicked out of him every week, and I think it makes the league a lot less attractive for such players.
 
padr81 said:
No team is close on United's size in England, be real. Even as a City fan I can openly admit that, United are far and away the biggest club.

Arsenal and Liverpool can't compete and couldn't. The closest Liverpool came to winning the league was after City and Chelsea's money they'd have filled nothing but become the 3rd place go to team with United cruising home.

100 years ago has no bearing on modern football. The rich have gotten richer, the gap is great and the only inroads can be made by sugar daddy. Take Dortmund, 2 great seasons after years of building, all of a sudden their entire squad is pulled apart. Atletico rise back up, win a title and all of a sudden Barca and in particular Real wake up and are like "Screw this..". Monaco etc...

If football is cyclical and teams can rise up again explain Ajax, PSV, Galtasaray, Marseille etc..., football is slowly becoming a G14 have what they want and the rich get richer. While I'm not trying to champion sugar daddies, they are the only alternative. Any club who didn't squeeze in the door at the time PSG, City did will never make it. Mark my words, the gap and number of trophies between the haves and have nots will get far, far great in the next few years. In 10 years time the BL will be something like 15 in a row for Bayern, La Liga will have no interruption to the top 2 dominance, PSG will drop feck all. Only England and Italy (to an extent will remain competitive).

There is more chance of Wolves winning a trophy and becoming a regular feature at the top than there ever will be for a Southampton
Click to expand...
Sad but true, the financial gap between the really big teams and the rest is really big and it keeps getting bigger. The capabilities of these clubs can only be matched or bettered by a Sugar Daddy. The whole football is cyclical nonsense is the most overrated argument ever made, mostly due to SAF.
 
Horrible tackle on Sane, but as long as it was not a break I don't think he will be out too long. It seems like more of a ‘knock’ type of injury than smething muscular. Clearest red card in a long time though.

Edit: seeing his ankle in that pic it could of course be some ligament stuff.
 
FCBarca said:
Pep's Barcelona would face similar, it's a form of handicapping/kneecapping
Click to expand...

There has never been a team in the history of the sport more protected by ref's than your little sanctimonious angels at Barca though, so I wouldn't say you've been harshly treated.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Sad but true, the financial gap between the really big teams and the rest is really big and it keeps getting bigger. The capabilities of these clubs can only be matched or bettered by a Sugar Daddy. The whole football is cyclical nonsense is the most overrated argument ever made, mostly due to SAF.
Click to expand...

It's not as simple as that though. Clubs like Chelsea then city largely caused the massive increases in spending so naturally clubs like united have to spend more to keep up. Psg Neymar fee single handedly caused huge inflation in prices. Would barca be paying 130m for Coutinho without the money - would van dijk then command a 75m fee. Television money obviously increased the wealth and spending of many but portraying sugar daddy clubs as some sort of simple club just doing what they can to keep up is nonsense.

United for example, a hugely dominant team for two decades, were the leagues highest spenders in (correct me if I'm wrong) 6 of 26 league campaigns.

Sugar daddy clubs like city forced the clubs that could match them to match their spending / widening the gap to clubs like Tottenham arsenal Liverpool etc.

But they will go round and round to rationalise their buying of league titles.

Without these clubs the fees being paid just wouldn't be happening
 
Womp said:
Ye, don't think that's even debatable, was a terrible tackle and Pep was right to be furious. Challenges like that need to have harsher consequences.
Click to expand...
Its just scandelous that these challenges are only getting punished with a yellow. Kane's and Ali's on Sterling, De Bruyne were as bad as Sane's. Ridiculous.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.