I love their how they all have their little scripts in hand and their smug looks.
Has political correctness actually gone mad?
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I think that's a little harsh. Judging people from the past by today's standards isn't really fair. I'm not saying what he said was fine, but suddenly everything good he did doesn't count? If people want to take pride in Britain then I think they can do so without celebrating all the bad stuff that went with it.
True. it would make one a pretty shit historian as well.
I'm not judging him from today's standards. Anyone who has caused mass genocide in any era is equally culpable, it's just that his acts of mass murder are more personal and relatively fresher in our collective memories, and so they're brought up in conversation more often, than say, Genghis Khan. I won't even get started on his bigoted/racist viewpoint. I never said anything about how he might have been seen as a positive light from your POV, all I'm saying is that nobody as cruel and vile as Churchill deserves to be celebrated. You can acknowledge him, his actions, but celebrations should be reserved for those who weren't such cnuts to so many other people. Sure, some good came from his existence, but the grief he caused far outweighs any good he might have done.
The average person isn't looking at his life prior to serving as PM really. They're purely celebrating his leadership and how he stood up to Hitler. He's an iconic figure of British history, I don't see a lot wrong with celebrating what he did between 1940 and 1945. It doesn't mean you're on board with everything the man ever did and everything the man ever said.
And I reckon therein lies the difference in the POV of a Brit and almost anyone else whose people were affected by him. We were on opposite ends of his actions so it's natural to have contrary opinions.
Stalin is regarded as a bit of a hero in Georgia, there's a nice museum dedicated to him in his hometown Gori where you can buy bottles of his preferred Georgian wine with his picture on them (it's quite good). Every home I stayed in there had his picture on the mantelpiece beside Jesus.
Yeah, it's good to know the UK will be in such safe hands when the Russians come marching down their street.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...reat-since-cold-war-says-head-of-british-army
This is true. Aren't you Indian? It's only natural we're going to have different perspectives. Over here he's still regularly trotted out as incredibly influential. Even classed as the greatest Briton ever by many.
feck Churchill, in my most politically correct tone.
Unsurprisingly, kids in Britain have only been taught about Churchill's WWII activities - this is why the nation regards him as a hero. A bit of truth wouldn't go amiss...
I get that we obviously have to look at history in a way that's different till now but in the era where Churchill was PM we were quite literally fighting against a European dictator whose racism we've been condemning ever since. Rightfully. Now...I'm not saying Churchill's anywhere near as bad as Hitler, or that he should be put in the same ballpark, but he was around until the 1950s politically...he's not some figure of ancient history, and even when he was politically active a lot of the stuff he'd said was seen as controversial.
I didn't see you as the Breitbart type.
Being Anti-Churchill and being Pro-Breitbart are two different stances.
He was an inspirational wartime hero and not a great peacetime one. I thought his dated at best views on race, women's rights etc...were well known and were strong (and of course odious), even for the time.
Nice braids.
That's what I thought was odd.
Michael Collins had the chance to punch Churchill and didn't take it. A truly great opportunity missed.
Oh god
'BTW my Churchill biography Boris for PM is still available in bookstores.'
It's the same with every country to be fair.
Most European countries will gladly educate their youth about the evils of Hitler, but avoid their own colonial histories. Japan used South Korean women as sex slaves (or comfort women as they were labelled) attempted to completely eradicate the Korean language, and let's not forget the Nanjing massacre, but they are only just at the point of printing anything close to the truth in school textbooks.
It's all a mechanism of creating a national identity.
It's all postmodernism now Steve. There is no truth.
How convenient for scoundrels and chancers.
Or for people who don't want their opinions challenged.
From a British and European point of view he did a massive amount of 'good', there is no 'might have' about it.
Like it or not, he is an icon. Arguably without his leadership the war may not have gone the way that it did.
Can completely understand people from other countries not having the same view however.
If you've got an aggressive neighbour who threatens you with a big, nasty, vicious dog, you get yourself a big, nasty, vicious dog to combat him. It's a bit churlish to say years after the dog's saved your neck that it was a bit of twat really.
No you don't, you call animal control - or the police.
Nowadays, the most public 'patriots' would turn traitor at the first sign of a pound or dollar.
As a wordsmith yourself you must admit he had a good turn of phrase though?
Does it matter how many other neighbours it mauls before and after this one justified revenge?
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Absolutely.
Bloody hell that's my car. Seriously. Nissan Almera 2002 Tournedo Grey, except I call it sea-green.
Yeah, I know it's old but it keeps passing it's MOT no problem and drives as new.
I wouldn't take mine to North London though, it's never done anything to deserve that.
Bearing in mind he's saved your neck, the very least he could expect from you is total redemption (a few statues here & there wouldn't go amiss either)
Why, what would you do ? Have him put down ?
What an ungrateful bunch you lefties are.
Not sure these two quotes go so well together.
Anyway, it's a mad comment. No one is exempt from criticism and historical figures are open to challenge.
I respect Churchill for what he did in the war, but we shouldn't be mindful of the soft sensitive right-wing folk who don't want to hear about what he did in India and Ireland. Those softies should be challenged.
Let me try & explain why I personally feel the way I do on such matters.
Firstly, I'm a British citizen by birth. The fact I was born here is simply fate. I never chose it, therefore I have no pride, nor regret, in my birthplace. I most certainly am not a nationalist. I don't feel that my presence here has helped the nation become the successful place it is, therefore I have no right to bang the 'good old blighty' drum like some drunken Al Murray or Alf Garnett clone. But on the other hand, I feel no guilt, or remorse, at Britain's imperialistic & colonial past. Why should I ? I played no part in it, so why should I carry the burden ? If we still behaved that way - killing, conquering, pillaging - then I'd be one of the millions who'd be protesting against it. But people like Winston Churchill are a product of their time who lived when British imperialism was probably at it's peak. Now as someone who is a staunch anti-monarchist, I'd say that the British monarchy is where people should be directing their anger & ire. They are the ones who throughout our history have encouraged such hideous deeds in the name of building up the British Empire. Their existence is central to the class system we still live under here in the UK. & yet we have a large section of the British population squabbling about feminism, political correctness, white male privilege, minority groups etc, when the fact is, we're all oppressed & down-trodden in comparison to the aristocrats of the elite few. The politicians & bureaucrats are no different, they simply use their positions to leverage themselves a better standing in society. They sell us a vision, & we buy it. We even sing their name at music concerts. But the fact is our lives will not really improve that much whoever gains power, because keeping the masses down is the one hidden agenda in every politician's portfolio.
I commented a couple of pages back how my political views have moved from the left, to the right side of moderate as I've gotten older. I see things differently now. I see things differently because I've had my eyes opened & I try to see things for what they are, & not what I want them to be. I experienced life living under a far right government led by Margaret Thatcher, & then a far left council fronted by a self-serving Derek Hatton. Both had a major negative impact on the thousands of people in my city, & the millions of British citizens who struggled to put food on the table for their respective families. I was one of the many who had to leave Liverpool & head down south to find work, & the strange irony is, it changed my life around for the better. Because I found an employer who paid to help me study for the degree my family couldn't afford when I left school at 15. This in turn helped me to move to a much higher paid job within the company. Despite that though, the fact is, I was in that position because of need, not choice.
So when it comes to celebrating the likes of Winston Churchill, if I'm being totally honest, my comments were probably down to a little bit of fishing on my part. It's a nothing story really. A few lefty students high on morality & hormones hijacking a greasy spoon cafe. So whilst I don't drink my tea out a Churchill mug, I am appreciative of what the man did in terms of defeating an enemy, who had he won, would have led to an altogether different life for all of us living, not just here in the UK, but in large parts of Europe too. What we don't know of course is how many more lives would have been lost with resistance fighting, genocide, etc, should Hitler have won. So having lived a good, fruitful, life here in Britain, I feel some gratitude to a person who helped make that happen. That doesn't mean my eyes & ears are closed to the suffering of the billions of others who are spread around the globe living in poverty & under tyranny. But I don't think anyone can really say things would have been that different in those parts even without Winston Churchill & the nasty British Empire.
You think it's a good idea to revere and celebrate a man who committed a whole bunch of atrocities in multiple countries, and is responsible for one of the worst genocides in recent history?Absolute garbage post.
Gallery removes naked nymphs painting to 'prompt conversation'
Manchester Art Gallery takes down work by J.W. Waterhouse and asks public to post reactions:
https://www.theguardian.com/artandd...use-naked-nymphs-painting-prompt-conversation
Jesus H. Christ...Manchester Art Gallery said: