The Active Shooter Thread

[Mike Schatner]

This here is the only actual pro gun argument. Feck off, I like guns!! Guns are cool!!!

You are not far from the truth when it comes to the most of the people that resist any sort of change.

 

[shabadu84]

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2017/06/15/peds.2016-3486

So roughly 1 child in every classroom. feck.

 

[Giggsy PO]

This is ridiculous. Reaction? All talk, no action.



How long will be this approach a norm?

 

[Silva]

So roughly 1 child in every classroom. feck.

and that's just in a year

 

[Charlie Foley]

Someone isn't praying hard enough. Like the dad in elf not generating enough Christmas spirit by pretending to sing.

 

[villain]

 

[Silva]

I thought this might be the case when his social media postings were reported. People do generally report threatening content to authorities who then do little about it.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I thought this might be the case when his social media postings were reported. People do generally report threatening content to authorities who then do little about it.

And what can they do?

It’s hugely ironic that the same morons who bleat about civil liberties when it comes to gun control seem to think the best way to prevent school shootings is by coming down hard on any kid who says stupid stuff on social media.

 

[Silva]

And what can they do?

It’s hugely ironic that the same morons who bleat about civil liberties when it comes to gun control seem to think the best way to prevent school shootings is by coming down hard on any kid who says stupid stuff on social media.

they can at hold off on the "see something say something" until they at least check that no one said something

he literally said he was going to be a school shooter, even the biggest civil liberties buffs are okay with that person going to prison

 

[villain]

I thought this might be the case when his social media postings were reported. People do generally report threatening content to authorities who then do little about it.

Exactly, which is why it's beyond stupid that Trump is telling people to report such people, all to divert conversation away from gun control.

 

[Raulduke]

I've seen reporting that the guy legally purchased the AR-15 a year ago, presumably right around the time Trump done away with the Obama era legislation that made it harder for people with mental health issues to purchase guns.

 

[Il Prete Rosso]

I've seen reporting that the guy legally purchased the AR-15 a year ago, presumably right around the time Trump done away with the Obama era legislation that made it harder for people with mental health issues to purchase guns.

My main problem is that Democrats aren't using this as an issue. You have to make Republicans feel the consequences of their actions.

 

[Mike Schatner]

I've seen reporting that the guy legally purchased the AR-15 a year ago, presumably right around the time Trump done away with the Obama era legislation that made it harder for people with mental health issues to purchase guns.

He bought it legally and passed all background checks. Mental health only comes into the equation if you have been officially diagnosed.

The law is messed up when its easier to buy an AR15 than a handgun.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

they can at hold off on the "see something say something" until they at least check that no one said something

he literally said he was going to be a school shooter, even the biggest civil liberties buffs are okay with that person going to prison

What a load of bollox. People joke about shit like that on social media all the time. No chance you'd pass legislation to lock them all up. You don't need to be a civil libertarian to see how draconian that would be.

 

[Mr Pigeon]

......

I’ve never understood the whole “goverment want to take my guns away”. If the government really did want to disarm all Americans for some devious plan to, I don’t know, enslave everyone, then Billy Bob and his AR - no matter how good a marksman he is - stands no chance against armoured infantry or a missile. It wouldn’t be a civil war where they stand in a line against the army and take turns firing shots at each other.

But the argument has never been about taking guns away from everyone, and it’s a straw man argument. I just don’t understand what is so wrong about preventing mentally ill people from being able to buy a weapon of mass destruction.

 

[RDCR07]

My main problem is that Democrats aren't using this as an issue. You have to make Republicans feel the consequences of their actions.

Everyone is just spineless in Washington. What do you expect? The Dems have had plenty of ammunition especially these past 12 months but they dont do shit cause they are fecking cowards and idiots.

 

[Silva]

What a load of bollox. People joke about shit like that on social media all the time. No chance you'd pass legislation to lock them all up. You don't need to be a civil libertarian to see how draconian that would be.

people do not joke about being a professional school shooter all the time

 

[RedDevil@84]

My main problem is that Democrats aren't using this as an issue. You have to make Republicans feel the consequences of their actions.

If Repulblicans are being paid by the gun lobby, who is paying the Dems?

 

[Mr Pigeon]

The more bizarre thing is, the question mentioned only stricter gun control, but he instantly jumped to “you can’t take everyone’s guns” argument. I don’t think that it’s realistic to completely save America at this point, guns are far too embedded into their culture for that. However that doesn’t mean that they can’t implement laws to make things a whole lot better and safe. Doing nothing is downright insane.

And you know what the definition of insanity is, right?

 

[RDCR07]

I’ve never understood the whole “goverment want to take my guns away”. If the government really did want to disarm all Americans for some devious plan to, I don’t know, enslave everyone, then Billy Bob and his AR - no matter how good a marksman he is - stands no chance against armoured infantry or a missile. It wouldn’t be a civil war where they stand in a line against the army and take turns firing shots at each other.

But the argument has never been about taking guns away from everyone, and it’s a straw man argument. I just don’t understand what is so wrong about preventing mentally ill people from being able to buy a weapon of mass destruction.

Thats the argument the NRA is feeding people to keep them paranoid and fight against gun control. That is obviously not the truth. Government only wants restrictions on guns not to take them all away. But creating panic among gun owners is the only way for the NRA to run their business.

 

[RDCR07]

And you know what the definition of insanity is, right?

Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

 

[RedDevil@84]

people do not joke about being a professional school shooter all the time

The bigger point is you cant have legislation for locking up people who keep saying nonsense, unless they actually do it or try to do it.
Even if arrested, he/she will be counselled and let off

 

[Shark]

Autism is more of a developmental disorder than the sort of preventable mental illness that gun nuts like to blame for these killings. I don't know the answer to this but has any mass shooter ever been diagnosed with a treatable mental illness?

Not sure, but I do know that there have been quite a lot of mass shooters diagnosed with anxiety/depression. For instance the columbine shooters that are always mentioned when high school shootings happen were both taking medication for depression. One of them had prescription drugs in his system the day of the shooting. Both also most likely had mental illness' that went ran far deeper than what they were taking medication for though.

 

[Silva]

The bigger point is you cant have legislation for locking up people who keep saying nonsense, unless they actually do it or try to do it.
Even if arrested, he/she will be counselled and let off

that is the point, get to them and rehabilitate them before they actually kill people

all countries already have legislation prohibiting violent threats, the more specific the more illegal

 

[Pogue Mahone]

people do not joke about being a professional school shooter all the time

I've no idea what point you're making. I suspect you're just being contrarian, as usual.

Anyway, I can assure you that a) it's fecking far from uncommon for bad taste jokes to be made about school shootings online and b) locking up anyone who says they're going to be a school shooter one day would be an absolutely outrageous infringement of civil liberties and won't ever happen.

 

[RedDevil@84]

that is the point, get to them and rehabilitate them before they actually kill people

all countries already have legislation prohibiting violent threats, the more specific the more illegal

The rehabilitation will solve only a part of the problem. Not having guns so readily available for everyone, will have a larger impact on the problem.

 

[Silva]

I've no idea what point you're making. I suspect you're just being contrarian, as usual.

Anyway, I can assure you that a) it's fecking far from uncommon for bad taste jokes to be made about school shootings online and b) locking up anyone who says they're going to be a school shooter one day would be an absolutely outrageous infringement of civil liberties and won't ever happen.

if there is nothing the police can do to stop people who make violent threats, don't tell the public to report people who make violent threats

one of the first things the police did last night was tell the public "if you see something, say something" in reference to his postings

someone saw something, said something, dude went and shot up a school

 

[Mr Pigeon]

Thats the argument the NRA is feeding people to keep them paranoid and fight against gun control. That is obviously not the truth. Government only wants restrictions on guns not to take them all away. But creating panic among gun owners is the only way for the NRA to run their business.

I’m amazed at how detached the US government (well, those that have been influenced by the gun lobby) has been with these sort of attacks. They’re always on the defensive when it happens and even after Sandy Hook - which felt like the US’s Dunblane moment - I still can’t believe that they had to be dragged kicking and screaming to the debate.

I was a kid when Dunblane happened here, but I remember the news and paper stories, and politians jumping up very quickly to say that it should never be repeated. The result was strict gun control and our schools are a hell of a lot safer. Just a little bit of sacrifice from the gun fanatics would do a hell of a lot more than trying to arm every single teacher in classrooms or having armed guards, because these killers will just find other targets*

*in my honest and frightened opinion

 

[Pogue Mahone]

if there is nothing the police can do to stop people who make violent threats, don't tell the public to report who make violent threats

Which was exactly my point!

And, by all accounts, this bloke didn’t even make any kind of specific violent threat. Certainly nothing he could go to prison for.

 

[Mike Schatner]

if there is nothing the police can do to stop people who make violent threats, don't tell the public to report who make violent threats

i think if you make violent threats regarding shooting people you should be arrested for questioning, evaluated for mental illness and all your weapons should be immediately confiscated.

 

[utdalltheway]

"Thoughts and prayers".
Yeah, cos that's why we elected our politicians, to pray, not to make laws making the country safer.

This shit's happening so often that maybe it should be moved to the "Other Sport" forum.

 

[RDCR07]

someone saw something, said something, dude went and shot up a school

Then you missed a bit in between after said something - the cops didnt do shit, no action was taken - dude went and shot up the school.

 

[Klean]

i think if you make violent threats regarding shooting people you should be arrested for questioning, evaluated for mental illness and all your weapons should be immediately confiscated.

The issue with that is the same issue now with the sexual assault scandals. Look at what happened to Aziz Ansari. Some woman tried to ruin his career just because they had a bad date. Without a proper investigation you are assuming everyone is guilty and therefore the burden of proof resides on the accuser to prove they are innocent. That's a very slippery slope.

 

[Mike Schatner]

The kid made social media posts about wanting to kill people with his AR15, and he wanted to be a school shooter. Don't know how much more of a signal he is a clear and imminent danger he could have given.

 

[Raulduke]

 

[kps88]

And, by all accounts, this bloke didn’t even make any kind of specific violent threat. Certainly nothing he could go to prison for.

From what I've read there's more to it than just the Youtube video comment. Teachers were warned not to let him on campus with a backpack, he was expelled for violent conduct, threatened students, abused his ex-girlfriend, found bullets in his backpack and students are coming out saying they aren't at all surprised it was him. Couple all of that with the comment saying he wanted to be a school shooter and I think you have enough for law enforcement to get involved or at least speak to the parents.

 

[Mike Schatner]

Most mass shooters have no diagnosed mental illness. Hard to prevent it if they are not officially declared mental until after the fact.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

The kid made social media posts about wanting to kill people with his AR15, and he wanted to be a school shooter. Don't know how much more of a signal he is a clear and imminent danger he could have given.

When did you last scroll down through some youtube comments? The internet is a fecking cesspit full of kids trying to say the most shocking/outrageous thing possible. Taking everyone who says something violent/offensive online into custody is a complete non-starter.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

From what I've read there's more to it than just the Youtube video comment. Teachers were warned not to let him on campus with a backpack, he was expelled for violent conduct, threatened students, abused his ex-girlfriend, found bullets in his backpack and students are coming out saying they aren't at all surprised it was him. Couple all of that with the comment saying he wanted to be a school shooter and I think you have enough for law enforcement to get involved or at least speak to the parents.

But whose job is it to join all those dots? Even if teachers/fellow pupils take it upon themselves to report all the loners and weirdos to the cops, do you really think the police are willing or able to arrest every teenager who owns a gun, gets into fights and says scary/offensive shit online?

Anyway, take away the "owns a gun" bit of that last sentence and you immediately reduce the threat, without any need to increase police resources, or infringe civil liberties (the sensible sort of civil liberties anyway!).

 

[Silva]

Which was exactly my point!

And, by all accounts, this bloke didn’t even make any kind of specific violent threat. Certainly nothing he could go to prison for.

that was also my point, legislation regarding threatening behaviour is not enforced in the slightest

even when there are more specific threats, it's rare something is done about it