Manchester City 17/18 discussion | "If you're here for the Champions clap your hands" (#6505)

I am talking about the style in general. I am not a big fan of keeping the ball for the sake of it and it has nothing to do on the basis of todays game. I repeat for 3 rd time fair play to city and pep for winning. There is no denying they deserve to win the title but just that I have never been a fan of this tiki taka and pass pass football.
Guardiola actually doesn't really play Tiki Taka football, he says he hates that term being labelled on his teams

Tiki Taka implies passing the ball around to maintain possession and not necessarily doing anything with it

Guardiola's teams generally pass the ball to advance up the pitch and open up defences not just for the purpose of passing the ball around for no reason
 
Funny that you mention Milan, considering they literally are the massive club that they are because of Burlesconi injecting money into the club. They were the original sugar daddy team, just did it in a different era so they became a “historically great club”. Should have used a better example mate :lol:

Nah, Milan were big in the 50's and huge in the 60's maybe you could class Madrid as the original sugar daddy club as they had the state behind them.

Its funny as the only fans I see whinging about city are fans of the so called 'historic' clubs who have shiten on all and sundry over the last 20-30 years since money went mental in football
 
I honestly believe only Liverpool or ourselves can stop them in Europe. I just don't see Barca, Bayern and Real as in the right moment to do it. I think they've all kind of accepted their fate.

This might explain why you are a "New Member" since 2012 then if you "honestly" think that.
 
They’re doing well. But it’s not surprising considering Pep has broken all total transfer spending records, spending nearly half a billion since arriving there and that’s on top of already inheriting a strong squad and his best players in KDB, Silva and Aguero.

I’m sure our board will react over Summer and invest, we’ve progressed but started from further behind in terms of squad quality when Pep and Jose came so need to catchup.

As for Arsenal and Chelsea, they seem to be on the wane. Liverpool starting to look quite a coherent team these days. North West teams could be top 3 for the foreseeable future.
 
They’re doing well. But it’s not surprising considering Pep has broken all total transfer spending records, spending nearly half a billion since arriving there and that’s on top of already inheriting a strong squad and his best players in KDB, Silva and Aguero.

I’m sure our board will react over Summer and invest, we started from further behind in terms of squad quality when Pep and Jose came so need to catchup.

True, I’ve always held this against Pep. But let’s be real for a second: his hit-to-miss ratio on transfers is incredible compared to most others. It’s not just a fluke he hits the nail on the head on his first go a lot of the times whereas other teams/managers take 2, 3, or even more tries to get it right. His efficiency for eyeing down targets, getting them, and most of all successfully integrating them into his system is special.
 
Oh, he drills them alright lol. And it’s all he cares about and has always been his bread and butter. Always being the side that sets the tempo and is the side others adjust to.

Why fix something that ain’t broken? And it’s amazing to think after all these years of coaching no one has still been able to really figure it out.
I will always post this amazing analysis of Pep Guardiola's philosophy and how it works. Coaches like Thomas Tuchel, Maurizio Sarri, Paco Jemez, Paulo Fonseca, Joachim Low, Julian Nagelsmann and even Antonio Conte use a lot of Guardiola's principles but there is not a single coach who uses fully his methods..Why there are not so many coaches in the wolrld able to replicate Guardiola's Juego De Posicion football? Because it is really a very sophisticated system that needs a lot of coaching and very specific type of players to perform it : https://spielverlagerung.com/2014/12/25/juego-de-posicion-under-pep-guardiola/
 
True, I’ve always held this against Pep. But let’s be real for a second: his hit-to-miss ratio on transfers is incredible compared to most others. It’s not just a fluke he hits the nail on the head on his first go a lot of the times whereas other teams/managers take 2, 3, or even more tries to get it right. His efficiency for eyeing down targets, getting them, and most of all successfully integrating them into his system is special.

To be fair at Barcelona he had a few flops. He never managed to integrate Ibra or Fabregas properly(seemed thoroughly confused as to what to do with Fabregas) and there was that defender he signed that was horrible, Chyrginsky? Been pretty good with transfers since Bayern though. Probably more experienced now in terms of knowing what his teams need.
 
True, I’ve always held this against Pep. But let’s be real for a second: his hit-to-miss ratio on transfers is incredible compared to most others. It’s not just a fluke he hits the nail on the head on his first go a lot of the times whereas other teams/managers take 2, 3, or even more tries to get it right. His efficiency for eyeing down targets, getting them, and most of all successfully integrating them into his system is special.
True. No doubt he is a top coach. However Nolito and Bravo spring to mind as flops he had to spend again to replace.
It’s just that with an almost infinite chequebook he gets away with it without anyone paying much attention to them.
 
At first I was still of the idea that they'd fall short against Real, Barca or Bayern but since I've seen them murder teams on the counter I think they shouldn't be written off against Europe's giants anymore. In other words, there's enough variety in their attacking style that they can hurt all teams and everyone from Sane to KdB to Sterling to David Silva look so motivated and fired up this season. Interesting to see how they'll perform against Europe's elite if they don't first meet an English team.
 
Funny that you mention Milan, considering they literally are the massive club that they are because of Burlesconi injecting money into the club. They were the original sugar daddy team, just did it in a different era so they became a “historically great club”. Should have used a better example mate :lol:

Not at all. I'm not naive or stupid to think football clubs just appear from no where. Not a single team in history didn't either start or continue to survive without a 'sugar daddy'. Milan weren't Man City and their history didn't start in 1983 when Burlesconi bought them. Have a look who was in their team in 1963. This team was winning league and European competitions before then. Yes things changed in the 80's but their standing in European football was long established before then and that's my point. City were never a big club and whilst they are a absolutely superb team, you can't buy history or pedigree. They are writing their own history but this is based on the ability to pay for it. Not a criticism but will always taint their achievements pretty much like their manager who only backs winning horses. People can talk about Barca but for me it was Rijkaard was the bigger influence before him....

Being a big club is like one of those gentlemen clubs that you don't just give a membership because you won the lottery. It's much more than that. Enjoy your lottery winnings but don't think it will impress anyone as we all know where it came from....
 
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True. No doubt he is a top coach. However Nolito and Bravo spring to mind as flops he had to spend again to replace.
It’s just that with an almost infinite chequebook he gets away with it without anyone paying much attention to them.
To be fair, of all of his signings those two were the cheapest, and the oldest. Definitely not in the same mould of his other signings focussing on youth into the squad; I’d say he’s spent a lot but he’s also embedded a style of play few saw possible with this side 8 months ago.

For that at least, he deserves some credit. When you’ve got the manager of last years Champions essentially accepting he can’t compete, when they’ve also got an expensive squad, shows the level of progress in the last 12 months. It’s essentially the same squad as last year with Ederson and Walker added, you could argue B.Silva is now getting more involved but the title was won already by the point Sterling got injured.
 
To be fair, of all of his signings those two were the cheapest, and the oldest. Definitely not in the same mould of his other signings focussing on youth into the squad; I’d say he’s spent a lot but he’s also embedded a style of play few saw possible with this side 8 months ago.

For that at least, he deserves some credit. When you’ve got the manager of last years Champions essentially accepting he can’t compete, when they’ve also got an expensive squad, shows the level of progress in the last 12 months. It’s essentially the same squad as last year with Ederson and Walker added, you could argue B.Silva is now getting more involved but the title was won already by the point Sterling got injured.
+ Danilo who's been fine for City when called upon.
 
They’re doing well. But it’s not surprising considering Pep has broken all total transfer spending records, spending nearly half a billion since arriving there and that’s on top of already inheriting a strong squad and his best players in KDB, Silva and Aguero.

I’m sure our board will react over Summer and invest, we’ve progressed but started from further behind in terms of squad quality when Pep and Jose came so need to catchup.

As for Arsenal and Chelsea, they seem to be on the wane. Liverpool starting to look quite a coherent team these days. North West teams could be top 3 for the foreseeable future.
They may have spent 500m since pep but we have also spent a lot on players since. Top my head, 300plus?. We have marginally improved in terms of results, performances are still dire. City have exponentially improved and are playing probably some of the best quality football and showing the most consistent form (in a single year) that the premier league has ever seen. Peps execution from his signings has been magnificent and he got rid of all the dead wood effectively. Jose has messed around.
 
Chelsea were beaten before a ball was kicked.
Can't remember the last time you felt hat way about a big team facing us.
Chelsea's approach last week and today in a sort of weird way shows the gap between us and City at the moment.
We need to close that gap sharpish.
 
They've got a good team, but I think Pep has elevated them to their maximum.

Hopefully he gets bored after next season.

He's done a tremendous job.
 
At first I was still of the idea that they'd fall short against Real, Barca or Bayern but since I've seen them murder teams on the counter I think they shouldn't be written off against Europe's giants anymore. In other words, there's enough variety in their attacking style that they can hurt all teams and everyone from Sane to KdB to Sterling to David Silva look so motivated and fired up this season. Interesting to see how they'll perform against Europe's elite if they don't first meet an English team.
They are a younger and faster team than barca. If Messi doesn't have a blinder, City should win that fight.
Real Madrid are having a bad season and don't look like the force they were last year. I expect city to win that one.
Bayern I feel can beat them as they have much better players all over the pitch and they can do both possession and counter attack well. Heynckes is a great coach as well.
Everything else is just cannon fodder.
 
The feck was that scream Pep did at the end? Made me want to nut him through the screen, and I don't even mind him that much normally.
 
Motd highlighting their pressing when they lose the ball here. They're fecking good at it. I wish we had half that teamwork going on.
 
Chelsea were beaten before a ball was kicked.
Can't remember the last time you felt hat way about a big team facing us.
Chelsea's approach last week and today in a sort of weird way shows the gap between us and City at the moment.
We need to close that gap sharpish.
That will never change unfortunately whilst Mourinho is in charge. It doesn't matter who is playing for us we will always play with the inferiority complex against the best teams. I find it difficult to criticise Conte for the way he approached the game today when Mourinho would've done exactly the same. There isn't a fear factor anymore when teams face United and maybe after he's gone we may move towards restoring that fear factor again.
 
I will always post this amazing analysis of Pep Guardiola's philosophy and how it works. Coaches like Thomas Tuchel, Maurizio Sarri, Paco Jemez, Paulo Fonseca, Joachim Low, Julian Nagelsmann and even Antonio Conte use a lot of Guardiola's principles but there is not a single coach who uses fully his methods..Why there are not so many coaches in the wolrld able to replicate Guardiola's Juego De Posicion football? Because it is really a very sophisticated system that needs a lot of coaching and very specific type of players to perform it : https://spielverlagerung.com/2014/12/25/juego-de-posicion-under-pep-guardiola/

Yep, I read that a while back.

Truly fascinating...as up in his ass as this may sound like, Pep’s an artist just drawing his strokes wherever he goes. Leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the competition in his area of managerial expertise.

Just appreciating greatness even though I’m a bit bitter for what he’s doing in England lol but still able to appreciate it. I remember when there were rumours he was coming to England and even though it was an off chance from the get go, I was so ecstatic at the possibility of him replacing LVG at United. Obviously never came to be but José was equally as good and even though it’s a completely different style, still able to appreciate his managerial excellence as well. Plus I’ve always ‘rooted’ for him over Pep anyways just because he’s been the underdog when it’s come to the 2 and his career in a way as well.



Watch from 21:00 mark till the end (less than 10 mins). Talks about the José-Pep rivalry and how it’s always a chess match between the 2 when they meet.
 
We've got to give them the guard of honour. To refuse would be pathetically small-time.
Speaking personally I don't give a rats about guards of honour or winning it on the occasion of the Derby game.
100 points would be nice but even that is ,to me, secondary to managing the squad to progressing in the CL with a fit and firing squad and I trust Pep thinks along those lines also.
 
Will they reach 100 pts? They can afford to lose one game (say, Spurs away) and draw 1 from the remaining fixtures. Maybe Guardiola will play weakened sides because of the CL and they will fail to win 100 pts. 96+ pts looks likely though.
As you end up saying I think 96 is the target for Pep. They will only worry about beating the current record of 95 points.

The guard of honour thing is moot but if we both win all our games before we face off in the derby (unlikely) City will be on 84 and United on 68. After that game ends there will be 18 points to play for so if City win (19 points difference) they are champions, if United win (13 points difference) or even if we draw (16 points difference) it goes on to the next match (away to Spurs) for City.
 
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Not at all. I'm not naive or stupid to think football clubs just appear from no where. Not a single team in history didn't either start or continue to survive without a 'sugar daddy'. Milan weren't Man City and their history didn't start in 1983 when Burlesconi bought them. Have a look who was in their team in 1963. This team was winning league and European competitions before then. Yes things changed in the 80's
Already explained this in this very thread, but okay. Milan were a sugar daddy club as early as the 1950s. Same as pretty much every other italian club. Some were already sugar daddy clubs in the 20s and 30s...
 
This might explain why you are a "New Member" since 2012 then if you "honestly" think that.
Yes because posting rate is a factor in football knowledge or otherwise.

It's a prediction. I honestly don't see Bayern, Real or Barca beating this City team over two legs. I think they'll be too blind to their qualities.
 
Already explained this in this very thread, but okay. Milan were a sugar daddy club as early as the 1950s. Same as pretty much every other italian club. Some were already sugar daddy clubs in the 20s and 30s...

Like I said, no football club exists without a benefactor. That said, a sugar daddy from the 50's is completely different to current owners in the same way as comparing a football club or players from the same era to now. What we are seeing now is unprecedented and it's only my view but it taints it. Some won't be bothered and wouldn't blame the modern fan tbh. I'm a bit old school....
 
All we’ve got to do is knock them out of Europe on the way to winning the Champions League and the season is ours.

Easy peasy.
 
Chelsea were beaten before a ball was kicked.
Can't remember the last time you felt hat way about a big team facing us.
Chelsea's approach last week and today in a sort of weird way shows the gap between us and City at the moment.
We need to close that gap sharpish.

How have you managed to use Chelsea's negativity to get a dig in at United :lol:
 
They may have spent 500m since pep but we have also spent a lot on players since. Top my head, 300plus?. We have marginally improved in terms of results, performances are still dire. City have exponentially improved and are playing probably some of the best quality football and showing the most consistent form (in a single year) that the premier league has ever seen. Peps execution from his signings has been magnificent and he got rid of all the dead wood effectively. Jose has messed around.
I am of the opinion that Jose is definitely negative and not getting the best out of our attacking players. However the gap between our spending and City's is nearer 200 million pounds if I am not mistaken. That's a pretty huge gap tbh. Also, when a manager can buy a player and then dump him next season without a worry in the world, letting him play as a sub all the time, then the playing field is just not the same.
 
How have you managed to use Chelsea's negativity to get a dig in at United :lol:
How is acknowledging there's a gap between us an City a dig at us?
Chelsea came to our place and tried to play us off the park(succeeded until we got our act together). They didn't even bother against City.
Just stating an observation I have and that we need to close that gap.
 
How is acknowledging there's a gap between us an City a dig at us?
Chelsea came to our place and tried to play us off the park(succeeded until we got our act together). They didn't even bother against City.
Just stating an observation I have and that we need to close that gap.

Why do you need to acknowledge it? The table speaks for itself. There's a gap between all the other top sides and City. Just seems like another excuse to have a dig at United in a thread that's nothing to do with them.
 
Also, when a manager can buy a player and then dump him next season without a worry in the world, letting him play as a sub all the time, then the playing field is just not the same.

To be fair, you've got Alexis Sanchez in return for Mkhitaryan, so that was totally understandable. :smirk:
 
They may have spent 500m since pep but we have also spent a lot on players since. Top my head, 300plus?. We have marginally improved in terms of results, performances are still dire. City have exponentially improved and are playing probably some of the best quality football and showing the most consistent form (in a single year) that the premier league has ever seen. Peps execution from his signings has been magnificent and he got rid of all the dead wood effectively. Jose has messed around.

Yeah the 200 + million difference in spend has nothing to do with it.. nothing I tell ya.
 
Why do you need to acknowledge it? The table speaks for itself. There's a gap between all the other top sides and City. Just seems like another excuse to have a dig at United in a thread that's nothing to do with them.
That's your own opinion. I'm not having a dig at anyone.
 
That's your own opinion. I'm not having a dig at anyone.

My own opinion is that the gap in the table doesn't lie and everyone is behind City at the moment? That's just a fact.

Just unsure why the constant need to ''acknowledge" United are way off City at the moment? It's bloody obvious and everyone has been saying it for ages. What yesterday actually showed is that Chelsea are just as far away, if not further.
 
They've spent record amounts but they still look like a team greater than the sum of its parts with key players playing out of their skin.
Pep still had done incredible work with that team.
 
My own opinion is that the gap in the table doesn't lie and everyone is behind City at the moment? That's just a fact.

Just unsure why the constant need to ''acknowledge" United are way off City at the moment? It's bloody obvious and everyone has been saying it for ages. What yesterday actually showed is that Chelsea are just as far away, if not further.
Personally, I don't care how far other teams are away from them, just us. And I don't understand why you'd be unsure why a United fan is worried about the gap between his team and the team above them.
 
Personally, I don't care how far other teams are away from them, just us. And I don't understand why you'd be unsure why a United fan is worried about the gap between his team and the team above them.

Where did I say I'm unsure why a United fan would be worried about the gap? I said I'm unsure why there is a need to go about the forum "acknowledging" the gap (as you put it) by getting digs in when discussing the Chelsea approach yesterday. It's obvious there's a gap as shown in the table. The gap exists between City and everyone else. Not just United.
 
Where did I say I'm unsure why a United fan would be worried about the gap? I said I'm unsure why there is a need to go about the forum "acknowledging" the gap (as you put it) by getting digs in when discussing the Chelsea approach yesterday. It's obvious there's a gap as shown in the table. The gap exists between City and everyone else. Not just United.
I can mention it cause this is a forum, that's what it's for and again it's not a dig. You're being precious by interpreting it as one.
And is a big gap between City and the rest of the league supposed to make me feel better?
Like I said, I don't care how far the rest of the league are behind.
 
I can mention it cause this is a forum, that's what it's for and again it's not a dig. You're being precious by interpreting it as one.
And is a big gap between City and the rest of the league supposed to make me feel better?
Like I said, I don't care how far the rest of the league are behind.

Just don't see the point in randomly mentioning something everybody is well aware of and has been for a while.

Chelsea's set up against City was weak and highlighted they are further behind City than we are. Pep has done very well with his side this season and certainly set a high benchmark for next. The extra 200+ million he has had to spend though certainly helps given how he's reshaped the squad.
 
Like I said, no football club exists without a benefactor. That said, a sugar daddy from the 50's is completely different to current owners in the same way as comparing a football club or players from the same era to now. What we are seeing now is unprecedented and it's only my view but it taints it. Some won't be bothered and wouldn't blame the modern fan tbh. I'm a bit old school....
No exactly, I don't blame City fans either. I'd probably be enjoying it as well if I'd been forced to endure the likes of Michel Vonk, Lee Badbuy and Richard Edghill for 20 years. But, from the outside, it's all very hollow isn't it.