Argentina NT

Peyroteo said:
Of course it does, with so many different options available surely they can find one that actually works?

Dybala is way too good to not be a key part of this Argentina team so him and Messi will 100% need to find a way to make it work. Even if Dybala doesn't start he'll definitely be coming on from the bench since there's no way the second best argentinian player in the world won't be a key part of the team.



There's a Copa America in 2019 so unless something weird happens I don't think he'll retire unless they win the WC.
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Messi believes he's cursed playing for the national team. He pretty much said after they lost to Chile in the second Copa final and briefly retired. That and their FA incompetance that has upset other players like Mascherano

I reckon he'd have retired/quit if they hadn't won in Ecuador.

You could be right with the Copa but that's being played in Brazil so going to be very difficult for any other SA country other than the hosts to win that.

He will be 35 and a half when 2022 world cup starts.
 
Peyroteo said:
Then they need to change something because there's no way a player like Dybala can stay out of the team. How many NTs in history have managed to have their second best player out of the team in a World Cup?
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Slightly different but Dani Alves was sub for Brazil in one of the world cups even though he was key player for Barca at the time.
 
gibers said:
Again you keep saying the same thing. They don't need to change anything. It's not a difficult concept. Dybala plays Messi's position and Messi is far superior. What is there not to understand. They can't change something for one player.

Argentina have a lot of attacker but no winger sand passing Mf so their balance is pathetic. Take Messi out of the side and they are subpar. In this day and age attaclk doesn't win you anything, the MF does generally.

Saying they need to play Dybala then what about Kun, Higuan. So Sampaoli should fit all 3 and Messi in the same team.

This isn't football manager...
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You're also saying the same thing... in fact, it's the second time you say that.

Of course they need to change something when the current set up is completely not working. You can't leave the second best player out of a team to favour an attacking system that clearly does not work. You keep saying that they don't need Dybala, they need wingers to provide width. Well, they don't have any damn wingers. How would you play? What would your starting XI look like?
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
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Argentina should really set up like this above with Messi in the Maradona position. With freedom to strictly play as a striker unlike Maradona who was the creative orchestrator.


I think a line up like this could work:

Romero

Otamendi
Mascherano
Rojo


Parades

Salvio Banega Di maria Acuna

Messi
Icardi
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Can Salvio and Acuna play wing bak positons?

Apart from that its a very good attempt to shape this in the world cup imo
 
Icardi's struggled so far aswell. Been hitting the keeper on one on ones with chances he buries with his eyes closed for Inter.

I still think Higuain will be their starting striker at the world cup. He isn't Sampaoli's type of CF though and obviously has the reputation for missing sitters in Argentina's big games.

Maybe Kun will be in contention although he's barely figured for them in the last year for various reasons.

So many things for Argentina to solve I just can't see how they'll come close to winning the world cup. Brazil, Spain and Germany all better all round team and crucially more stable with their 11s.
 
Peyroteo said:
You're also saying the same thing... in fact, it's the second time you say that.

Of course they need to change something when the current set up is completely not working. You can't leave the second best player out of a team to favour an attacking system that clearly does not work. You keep saying that they don't need Dybala, they need wingers to provide width. Well, they don't have any damn wingers. How would you play? What would your starting XI look like?
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Honestly I don't know. they are a a very unbalanced side and are horrible to watch, If Messi gets injured that team is finished. I don't think they can create a system that can accomodate all their players and play an effective system

Them not having wide players is a serious issue.

They have to just play defensively and pass the ball to Messi.

Where would you play dyabala?
 
gibers said:
Where would you play dyabala?
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I'm not sure but that's why the friendlies they'll have would be the perfect time to try something different. I'd go with something like this. Di Maria providing the width on the left and Salvio providing the width on the right.

hbeMPj1.png
 
Push Salvio into midfield and just play a back 3 with Rojo in there. Suits Mercado more than having him as a CB in a 4.

Think I said last year play Messi as a false 9 like Barca used to do as he's the only one who can be relied upon to finish the chances.
 
Peyroteo said:
I'm not sure but that's why the friendlies they'll have would be the perfect time to try something different. I'd go with something like this. Di Maria providing the width on the left and Salvio providing the width on the right.

hbeMPj1.png
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I dont think is a good idea to play Di Maria as midfielder at this point. And i bet Sampaoli will play three at back.
 
Charles Miller said:
I dont think is a good idea to play Di Maria as midfielder at this point. And i bet Sampaoli will play three at back.
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That's pretty much 3 at the back with Di Maria and Salvio as the wingbacks. They could also put Acuña on the left and play a front 3 of Dybala, Di Maria and Messi with no striker. I'm not sure what would work or not really, it's impossible to say until it happens on the pitch but I really hope they try something new.
 
They be stupid to play Rojo at left back, he is much better at centre back.
 
Peyroteo said:
That's pretty much 3 at the back with Di Maria and Salvio as the wingbacks. They could also put Acuña on the left and play a front 3 of Dybala, Di Maria and Messi with no striker. I'm not sure what would work or not really, it's impossible to say until it happens on the pitch but I really hope they try something new.
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They should to do what Brazil did in 2002. That brazilian generation was very unbalanced but with great attack. So Scollari played with a lot of defensive players: 3-5-2, three at back plus two DMs, to free Ronaldinho-Ronaldo-Rivaldo.

In general South American wc attacking players can not defend like the europeans. So when you line up a very offensive side to use all your weapons, it tends to not work well.
 
Charles Miller said:
They should to do what Brazil did in 2002. That brazilian generation was very unbalanced but with great attack. So Scollari played with a lot of defensive players: 3-5-2, three at back plus two DMs, to free Ronaldinho-Ronaldo-Rivaldo.

In general South American wc attacking players can not defend like the europeans. So when you line up a very offensive side to use all your weapons, it tends to not work well.
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They lack the personal to effectively run a 3-5-2 like scolari did in order to possibly play Messi and Dybala without getting in each other’s way.
 
Fenomeno9 said:
They lack the personal to effectively run a 3-5-2 like scolari did in order to possibly play Messi and Dybala without getting in each other’s way.
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Surely Rojo otamendi and masceranho can Marshall a back 3 reasonably well. At least well enough to get through 7 games conceding less than their attack scores at the very least. Even a Dutch team with half the talent of this argentine attack and not any better than Argentine defence (in fact Argentina have a better defence too) got to the SF
 
prath92 said:
Surely Rojo otamendi and masceranho can Marshall a back 3 reasonably well. At least well enough to get through 7 games conceding less than their attack scores at the very least. Even a Dutch team with half the talent of this argentine attack and not any better than Argentine defence (in fact Argentina have a better defence too) got to the SF
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They don’t have the wingbacks. Sampaoli has been playing a 3-4-3 and it hasn’t looked good so far. To be fair, he needs more time considering he was hired late in the WC cycle but I don’t think they can effectively run that system like his Chile team did.
 
IFC 1905 said:
Dude! How has he been? Did he adapt to your style and the league? I love that little fecker, he'll always be our captain.
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He was an instant hit, adapted very well! And that for a warmblooded guy having to cope with a European winter for the first time.

Seriously, we love him.
 
[/SPOILER]
DYGFo-tX4AEp-nf.jpg:large



It's official now. The names that Sampaoli called for the next friendly matches.


From the local area, he called Bustos and Meza (Independiente), Pablo Perez and Pavón (Boca Jrs), and Lautaro Martinez (Racing Club)




We now have 5 names who represent Independiente, with Bustos and Meza in the current time and Agüero, Biglia and Tagliafico who played for us in the past

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Aguero and Biglia


Taglia-copa.jpg


Tagliafico



P56-f3-recortar.jpg

Fabricio Bustos


tumblr_opyyhozgor1rjh70yo3_1280.jpg


Maximiliano Meza
 
No Dybala, Icardi or Lamela but Pavon and Martinez. Agent Sampaoli confirmed. ;) Or what is the reasoning here @IFC 1905 ?
 
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So Higuain is returning to the squad?

NT retirements are truely worth nothing. Remember all those 1-7 Brazilians who were supposed to never be called up again?
 
Javi said:
No Dybala, Icardi or Lamela but Pavon and Martinez. Agent Sampaoli confirmed. ;) Or what is the reasoning here @IFC 1905 ?
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Pavon is more of a winger, he's really fast. He played before, I think it was against Russia. He combined well with Messi and gave an assist to Aguero.

Lautaro is the biggest promise in Argentina at the moment, he's from our biggest rival Racing Club, but I'm a big fan of him. His ability to attack the ball is what we need, and he's good with both legs. I'm dying to watch him perform for Argentina. He's Nike's best paid outisde of Europe and will join Inter Milan in june.

Dybala and Icardi had their chances and they didn't perform well. I think Dybala still has chances to join the team for the WC. He came from an injury aswell.
 
IFC 1905 said:
Pavon is more of a winger, he's really fast. He played before, I think it was against Russia. He combined well with Messi and gave an assist to Aguero.

Lautaro is the biggest promise in Argentina at the moment, he's from our biggest rival Racing Club, but I'm a big fan of him. His ability to attack the ball is what we need, and he's good with both legs. I'm dying to watch him perform for Argentina. He's Nike's best paid outisde of Europe and will join Inter Milan in june.

Dybala and Icardi had their chances and they didn't perform well. I think Dybala still has chances to join the team for the WC. He came from an injury aswell.
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What do you mean by 'attack the ball'?
 
IFC 1905 said:
What he does in the 1st goal. He goes for it. He's not waiting. All the movement is great, incluiding the finishing with his boot.
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You mean trying to get at the end of a delivered free kick? Seems trivial to me. He looks good from the clip though, will try to keep his name in mind.
 
Schneckerl said:
So Higuain is returning to the squad?

NT retirements are truely worth nothing. Remember all those 1-7 Brazilians who were supposed to never be called up again?
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Only 06 of that group of 23 in 2014 remain in the Brazilian nt and its because there's nothing better: Dani Alves, Marcelo, Thiago Silva, Fernandinho, Willian and Neymar.
 
Higuain and Dybala have totally exploded together the past weeks. They’ve never been a very impressive partnership (only individually), but now they’re assisting each other in every other goal. Good timing for Argentina.
 
IFC 1905 said:



What he does in the 1st goal. He goes for it. He's not waiting. All the movement is great, incluiding the finishing with his boot.
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Why is he going to Inter with Icardi there? They look similar. Unless Icardi moves on in the summer, i dont see him starting with him or over him
 
Schneckerl said:
The first three weren't called up for a while right?
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Yes. Thiago Silva still hated. He forced a yellow card against Chile in order to not play against Germany. Is a coward. He refused to take penalty in that game too. Marcelo the previous coach Dunga didn't rate him for whatever reason. Dani Alves we have no choice because strangely there are not great right backs in this generation. Fernandinho was hated until months ago. Now he is tolerated.
 
izec said:
Why is he going to Inter with Icardi there? They look similar. Unless Icardi moves on in the summer, i dont see him starting with him or over him
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Atletico were in for him and the deal was all but finalised in late December or early January but Martinez and his agent kept increasing their demands. Atletico eventually backed off and Inter swooped in. Think Inter were the only club interested at that point.
 
Nedved said:
Higuain and Dybala have totally exploded together the past weeks. They’ve never been a very impressive partnership (only individually), but now they’re assisting each other in every other goal. Good timing for Argentina.
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Where does Messi play in this combination? That's the problem here.
 
Lautaro Martinez is the
izec said:
Why is he going to Inter with Icardi there? They look similar. Unless Icardi moves on in the summer, i dont see him starting with him or over him
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Becouse Inter have only Icardi as central forward at the moment maybe?
 
I've said this before, but as amazing and wonderful it would be for Messi to win a WC no way they can go through the gauntlet that they have this year which is going through some potential combination of France/Portugal/Spain/Germany/Brazil to win it all.

Argentina had a very favorable path to the final in 2014 but this year will be the complete opposite.

Damn shame, but I'd argue out of all the major WC teams, they are one that has the most upside as no one knows what to expect.
 
Blimey Meza where's he come from? :lol: 26, uncapped, are you all missing Benedetto as your token Argentine league player? ;)

In fairness I do watch the league from time to time, saw a bit of Union Santa fe v someone last night, score was 0-2. No idea who the player was but he was left footed and put in some brilliant crosses in the first half.

Anyway bit of fun here's the team if Maradona did another stint:

Romero

Mercado Mascherano

Banega

Di Maria Dybala Messi Tevez

Aguero Palermo Higuain
 
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