It is hypothetical but if you absolutely have to make a choice: letting underdeveloped starlets go, replace them with instant packages and win league titles, or nurturing them at all cost, accept their learning curves and win feck all?
Martial has got to remain at United | No, he hasn't been unfollowing United players on Instagram
- Thread starter beingshe7don
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
I beg to differ. Can we give credit where its due? Martial needs to be credited with the progress he has made this season. Mourinho was ready to leave him out to dry from the first game. He made significant progress and Rashford's dip in form left Jose with no choice than to start him in some games. Bringing in Sanchez and playing him in Martial's position and moving Martial to the right side just wasn't the right thing to do. He did that with Rashford as well vs. Sevilla after Rashford gave a strong performance against Liverpool on the left just couple days before.
Mourinho can't harness talent and therefore, I fail to see any youth develop into a world class player under him. McTominay does not count. Rashford hasn't really developed all that much since Jose came to OT.
The guy's shirt got taken away from him without even asking him to accommodate Zlatan.
The guy works his socks off to play well on the left and he's been rivaling Rashford only to have that taken away from him to accommodate Sanchez
Sounds like this guy has been getting the shorter end of the stick.
Any other details you can give us with your direct line to the training ground?
Seriously like what on earth has he actually done? So overrated on here IMHO.
Depay was a talent we let go off because he was simply wasn't putting in good performances but Martial actually does put in match winning performances from time to time.
I disagree that he's "works his socks off". He's one of my favorite players but there's certainly been games during his stint here that he clearly hasn't given a feck (all players experience those). I think he should stay here but I think he's gone in the summer.
Exactly, but what level of young players would make us consider keeping them at all cost? A team like Arsenal will have rooms for a talent like say Iwobi to develop, whereas at Barca, Real, etc. they have to be somewhere along the lines of Asensio and Dembele.
16(10) PL appearances, 9 goals and 5 assists [Game winner vs. Spurs at OT]
That's 14 goals he's contributed to in 26 appearances and he doesn't play the full 90 min in majority of those games.
Martial is definitely on par with the likes of Dembele, Asensio and Mbappe (talent-wise). Therefore, he needs to be kept.
Well, I like the kid but let's just agree to disagree.
It is possible to have a mix of starlets and instant packages and win the league. Look at City. Up front they have Aguero and in midfield they have Silva, De Bruyne and Fernandinho as their instant packages. Out wide they have Sane and Sterling as the starlets. Last season their stats weren't great and this season they've blossomed.
Lingard scored a cup winner for us, and is arguably having a better season than Martial. Yet there are swathes of people trying to pigeonhole him as a squad player, bagging him whenever he doesn't score a worldie, saying things like 'so long as Lingard is starting we will never be a top team'. They are actively wishing him to be on the bench.
Meanwhile, whenever Martial scores a goal or gets an assist there's talk of him being the first name on the team sheet, our best attacker, world class potential etc.
It's not a surprise that the OP thinks Martial 'works his socks off', it's a complete detachment from reality. Martial does not works his socks off and that is exactly why he doesn't get to start every single game without question. Have a look at the players that displace him in the team, Rashford and Sanchez, both players that actually do work their socks off and will run until they die. Martial is one of the laziest players in the team, even Mata who was pegged as a luxury player by the manager a few years ago, is usually the first tracking back and the first running forward.
When all else fails the inevitable goals per minutes ratio will pop-up (remember when Morata had a better ratio than Messi? So much for that). Ignoring that there is a reason why he doesn't get more minutes on the pitch. He makes Robben look unpredictable, meaning that he is ineffective for specific tactical situations. He is also a player that stops working late into games, he fades as the game goes on, so he is taken off regularly for someone with fresher legs. A good player but still has deficiencies in his game that need to be corrected if he wants to be a world class player.
I truly beleive he has the potential to become world class, but he has to step up. In teams like United we can not wait 3 or 4 years to see if he might reach top level or not. We must have players that deliver always.
One of the best ways for long term success I think.
The thing about Martial is that he doesn't impact much at all most of the time unless there's a brief moment which sees him getting a return. That might sound odd, but he doesn't affect enough of games and the way we play, and if he doesn't contribute with something obviously beneficial then he doesn't do much at all. Obviously it's good when he does get something but you need more to be a consistent performing side.
He's a young player that should be driven beyond a shirt number.
He's doesn't do anywhere near enough to be given consistent starts which is why he doesn't get them. Jose doesn't have a vendetta against him.
And we needed to improve now. It's silly just aiming for the future constantly at the detriment of now. We brought in a player that is better. That's almost unarguable, despite the slow start. A player that should be able to give us something good, hopefully, for a couple of years. By the looks of it it's gonna take at least a couple of years for Martial to become much of better player, because he has a shit tonne to improve. His only outstanding trait as things stand are his nimble feet. Everything else is either average or actually quite poor.
If he has an ounce of fight in him, he'll know to crack on and do better in the opportunities he gets, so that when he's (hopefully) improved in a few years it's the perfect time to swap places with Sanchez.
If he doesn't, then I'm not arsed what happens with him.
I agree and there needs to be a balance and SAF did an amazing job maintaining that balance to take the legacy forward. With the rumors are to be gone by, we'll be getting in Bale (29 year old ~ injury prone) and shipping out Martial (22 year old ~ got his best years ahead of him). That would be Bale and Sanchez (29 and 30) respectively. Our attackers need to be in their prime and not someone who are looking for their pension.
Apart from the goal against Huddersfield and most recently Swansea, Sanchez has given nearly abysmal performances. We never needed Sanchez and he hasn't really helped us in any way. If Sanchez hadn't joined, we would probably be in a similar position. It just sets us Martial and Rashford back in the growth process.
You mentioned that a young player should be driven beyond a shirt number. Yeah that's true but when you've come to a club and have done all the right things and then for your number to be taken without asking, is very disrespectful and unwarranted irregardless of being young or old.
Martial is a player that needs to be treated differently to get the best out of him. The fact is that Mourinho does not like players that don't offer tracking back options. If that was the case, we would never have Messi and Ronaldo. Some players need to be given the space to actually work their magic. And in my opinion, Martial is that flair player.
Ronaldo played under Mourinho and had his best 3 year goalscoring period under him. Stop chatting BS!
No doubt, it is the ideal way to go but realistically not many teams are lucky enough to have such a combination, and not many young players are lucky enough to be in the exact point in time when a team can afford such balance. I was speaking totally hypothetically as to wonder what choice fans would like to make.
He could start in a Liverpool team ahead of Mane and Liverpool create a lot more chances than us.
He could start for Chelsea as well. Martial can also play upfront and could have been used for Morata when he was misfiring. Martial, Willian and Hazard would have been pretty crazy.
He could start at Juventus.
He could start at Athletico Madrid
There are plenty of teams out there that would love to have Martial.
Haha.... Ronaldo scoring his goals has nothing to do with Mourinho coaching or managing him. If that was the case, Ronaldo and team wouldn't be against him and have him kicked out of the Bernabeu. And Mourinho had a world class team back then with world class players in every position. We don't have that luxury.
At times it feels like some posters think Martial is going to leave and will go on to become great elsewhere, so we get these OTT threads now in preparation for them being able to claim they were "his biggest fan all along, go check the thread I started for proof".
Everyone knows his talent. Some are blind to his faults, or just don't want to acknowledge them because that will go against them being able to claim how big a fan they were when things do finally click for him.
Everyone knows his talent. Some are blind to his faults, or just don't want to acknowledge them because that will go against them being able to claim how big a fan they were when things do finally click for him.
You flat out lied, and then went on about something irrelevant just to have a dig at Mourinho.
Ronaldo did not track back well and he was played by Mourinho. You said that he doesn't do that but he does. The fact is that if you are good enough, he will give you freedom to play your game!
What about Ozil who was the best playmaker in the world at 22-23 when he was at Madrid?
"I learned with him because we were together for quite a long time, that he's a very sensitive boy.
"He needs confidence. He needs trust. He needs to feel that people is with him. When he's on the pitch, every time he touches the ball, the ball goes beautiful.
"And he’ll always finds the right man on the right place. So, sometimes, you don't see him, sometimes he doesn't go to screen many, many times. But when he goes he is a special player.
"If you are expecting Ozil to be super aggressive and running miles and miles side to side and to show great enthusiasm and aggressivity - this is not Mesut .
"If you are waiting for somebody who every time he touches the ball, the ball smiles and every time he makes the pass the ball goes in the right direction with the right speed and intensity - this is Mesut."
Mourinho gave Ozil special treatment because he was good enough!
Martial does not elevate the team to a higher level; he's not good enough for that yet. He's got good end product and some nice control with the ball and that's it. He doesn't score enough like a Salah or Kane to be a guaranteed starter, and he does not facilitate the running of the team like Hazard or KdB.
I'm not saying Sanchez has changed much, but he is obviously a better player. Don't think his performances have been abysmal either. He's looked like the only one trying to get things moving while the rest of the team has been lax (complete opposite of Martial most of the time btw). At times he's probably been trying too hard, to his detriment, but either way, it's not gonna change much when an entire team is barely out of neutral. No surprise he got a nice goal in the only half we've played well in since he's been here.
There's gonna be so many 'I told you so's on here if he does, even though we all want it and know he has potential.
The most important part of the op... he's 22. He doesn't need to start every game.
Btw, does the op realise that Martial has played 40 games for us this season so far, either as a starter or off the bench? Sane has played 41 for City this season... he's also 22.
Btw, does the op realise that Martial has played 40 games for us this season so far, either as a starter or off the bench? Sane has played 41 for City this season... he's also 22.
Exactly! Everyone knows that the boy has talent, but he's not the finished product so we have to use other players for different situations. Not to mention we also have a very promising academy product with a similar profile to Martial, I'm sure that the United board have told Mourinho that he must play academy products because it is a strong part of our identity.
Have you not been reading the garbage from those who have had to resort to creating rumours or quoting the Uzbek times now they can’t have a go at results or league position?
That's one heavily weighted hypothetical.
Still waiting for the post saying that Martial needs to stop 'sulking' and looking disinterested. 
He wouldn't start ahead of Mane at all, Liverpools play relies on movement and pressing of which Martial offers little.
All the clubs you've mentioned he'd end up with similar minutes to here. He isn't a guaranteed starter for any top club (or country) yet as you'd expect at his age.
Still you give away the game when you claim he's up there with Mbappe. I doubt you'll find one person who agrees with that
Still waiting for the post saying that Martial needs to stop 'sulking' and looking disinterested.
It would be nice to see him play one game without looking moody, in fairness.
There you go!
That's just his general disposition. We've had other players like that over the years. Have you not seen his reactions when he scores?There you go!
Remember it with Andy Cole. One of my favourite players. Not really anyone else. It's the only thing that bothered me with Cole. Sanchez has a bit of it, but he works relentlessly all game so I mind it less.
Of course. No surprise there. If he was going around telling how he wants to be world's best and then goes on and does nothing on the pitch and then be seen in evenings wearing golden braces and driving fancy cars and attending parties, he would have been criticized a lot more.
It is a positive trait to have the feet grounded and be able to work hard at this age.
Berbatov, Saha? May be a bit before your time, but Les Sealey always used to irritate the life out of me. Always screaming at the defenders for his mistakes.
Yeah, Berba and Saha, but not really as moody as Martial which is why I thought of Cole. Always looked like he was having a terrible time apart from when he scored (which was often). Sealey definitely before my time, but it generally feels annoying as you want to see players pumping each other up and see togetherness. Doesn't have to be all smiles all the time, but looking glum all the time is annoying in any walk of life. But the kid has outrageous talent and I really do hope this is all just crazy talk. The best close control I've seen from a United player, at pace. Given the club went for Sanchez, it is a shame neither seems to fit out on the right side.
You've missed my point though. I'm not saying I want him to be like that, but he'd actually be judged better on how he's contributing to the team.
I think he should leave.
Excellent thread.
He's even more productive than his debut season and has improved his defensive tracking back. He tracks back and works hard.
He is not without flaws but he made improvements and became a starter. Sanchez came and martial got injured too.
He most definitely must stay. Fans at Old Trafford seem to love him. Love the Buzz in the crowd when he has the ball. Even on his poor days he can split open a team with a dribble or flick or shot.
He's even more productive than his debut season and has improved his defensive tracking back. He tracks back and works hard.
He is not without flaws but he made improvements and became a starter. Sanchez came and martial got injured too.
He most definitely must stay. Fans at Old Trafford seem to love him. Love the Buzz in the crowd when he has the ball. Even on his poor days he can split open a team with a dribble or flick or shot.