Martial has got to remain at United | No, he hasn't been unfollowing United players on Instagram

OL29 said:
I don't really get the concept of 'fans' disliking a player simply because of they believe he gets too much love from a portion of supporters but they seem very prevelant in Martial threads. Seems very tit for tat.

With regards to this thread, has there even been any serious speculation about him leaving?
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Weirdly he seems to be getting more appreciation from fans of other clubs.

There has been plenty of speculation but debatable how concrete it is. We continue to be linked to a right winger though and there isn't really room for all the attacking players with a right winger added.

Pogue Mahone said:
You seem to be arguing that Martial isn’t being picked as much as he could be while also arguing that he’s been picked so much that Mourinho couldn’t have any issue with him. All in the same post.
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If Mourinho had an issue with Martial's lack of movement, he would have said way earlier in the season. That is all I'm saying. You know what you get with Martial.

breakout67 said:
Ok, so whatever period makes it look like Martial is being singled out is the one you'll pick? What about earlier in the season when he started 6 or 7 games in a row, were you talking about him not being given game time just because he didn't play 15 games in a row?

He was just injured. And he played 90 minutes in our most important game of the season, now that we are out of the CL and top 4 is secured.
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You said plays as in present tense. I'm just saying it isn't the case at the moment. If we were earlier in the season then yes, I'd say he is playing regularly, but he isn't right now. Comprende?

Sevilla was our most important game of the season. Shaw started against Brighton and you wouldn't say he is overly important to the squad would you?
 
this feels like such a long season. Was it really the start of the season when Martial and Rashford alternated 60/30 minutes and it seemed outscored/assisted each other for fun?
 
Damien said:
Weirdly he seems to be getting more appreciation from fans of other clubs.

There has been plenty of speculation but debatable how concrete it is. We continue to be linked to a right winger though and there isn't really room for all the attacking players with a right winger added.
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Honestly, it doesn't surprise me with our fans, a lot of them will find a reason to dislike players based on nothing, look at the hate Lingard and Pogba get for their social media videos.
 
beingshe7don said:
If Jesse Lingard has become the benchmark of the club? then I sincerely fear being a United fan since our standards have dropped tremendously since Fergie left.

According to whoscored.com
Martial --- 16(10) Appearances --- 1346 min ---- 9 goals & 5 assists
Sane --- 21(5) Appearances --- 1909 min ---- 9 goals & 11 assists
Lingard --- 16(11) Appearances --- 1471 min --- 8 goals & 4 assists

Even Lingard has played more minutes than Martial... and Martial still has one more goal and one more assist than Lingard. Lingard will never be a World Class Player.
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Martial: 11g 10a, 2082 minutes.
Lingard: 13g 5a, 2145 minutes.
Sane: 13g 15a, 2924 minutes.
Rashford: 12g 9a, 2248 minutes.

All comps, no idea (yeah right) why you decided to disregard cup competitions.

So basically world class prospect Martial has two goals less and 5 assists more than Plebgard who also played breathtaking 63 minutes more. We're trully fecked. The amount of bullshit you've managed to make up in this thread is amazing by the way.
 
Damien said:
You said plays as in present tense. I'm just saying it isn't the case at the moment. If we were earlier in the season then yes, I'd say he is playing regularly, but he isn't right now. Comprende?

Sevilla was our most important game of the season. Shaw started against Brighton and you wouldn't say he is overly important to the squad would you?
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I think you might need to refresh your grammar. When someone says that something happens regularly; it means over time. Looking at short term references for regularity defeats the purpose of the word completely.

Martial didn't play against Sevilla because he didn't have the qualities for the gameplan we wanted to execute (which was questionable, but it wasn't unfair treatment of Martial because it's not as if he was suitable for the gameplan and not picked). The idea was to get the game going through knockdowns from Fellaini, that's obviously not Martial's strength because he is a player that thrives off intricate passing not long balls and chasing second balls.

Shaw was hooked off at half time and singled out after the Birghton game. The manager was also visibly pissed off at the performance that the players put out, he was looking for a response after Sevilla. Why would the manager play someone in such a game if they didn't rate their potential?
 
beingshe7don said:
Lingard has improved no doubt but Lingard is not a flair player. He's got immense energy which is what Mourinho likes about him. I'm not sure if Mourinho has ever improved a player whose got natural flair and is talented.
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Arguably Ozil played his best football under Mourinho.

beingshe7don said:
If Jesse Lingard has become the benchmark of the club? then I sincerely fear being a United fan since our standards have dropped tremendously since Fergie left.

According to whoscored.com
Martial --- 16(10) Appearances --- 1346 min ---- 9 goals & 5 assists
Sane --- 21(5) Appearances --- 1909 min ---- 9 goals & 11 assists
Lingard --- 16(11) Appearances --- 1471 min --- 8 goals & 4 assists

Even Lingard has played more minutes than Martial... and Martial still has one more goal and one more assist than Lingard. Lingard will never be a World Class Player.

He's nothing more than a glorified English Pedro in my eyes. Don't get me wrong, he's got great movement off the ball and I like his direct style of play but more often than not, he makes a great impact sub. World class players tend to produce moments of magic even on their off day. Martial comes under that category whereas Lingard can be completely invisible on his off day.

I can assure you that in an attacking setup, Martial will tear apart defenses. The guy is that good. Just take notice of the way Sanchez plays on the left wing as compared to Martial. Both cut in to take shots on goal but Sanchez cuts in a lot deeper (almost in center of midfield) whereas Martial attacks the fullback and gets the fullback to back off and then cuts in. That's one of the reasons why Pogba and Sanchez were occupying the same space and have been finding it difficult to play together.
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Nah bro, I don't even know why you felt the need to inform me of all this when it's something that wasn't in question. The question was very simple, did Mourinho improve anybody in the team and the answer is yes.
Why you're throwing Martial and Mata in there ?
 
BusbyMalone said:
The most frustrating thing about Martial is not his lack of workrate, per se, but his lack of movement in behind the opposition defence. It's infuriating. You watch players like Sane who are superb at making those penetrating runs in behind and then watch Martial - they're chalk and cheese. The thing is, he's just as fast as Sane and has the close ball control to be able to do it. So it's not a technique issue but more of an attitude problem; there's just very little movement from him.

As for the actual topic of the thread, i would still keep him. He has the talent and it would be a shame to let him go this early. I would love for him to succeed here.
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The transition between attack and defence is much faster at City, they primarily use their wingers to run in behind, the ball is ably carried forward and possession is maintained by the midfielders, whereas in our setup it's pretty much the wingers who do the attacking, Matic and Pogba just pass it out wide.

Plus our passing is often very slow and by the time Martial has the ball he is already facing a deep defensive block and our fullbacks never overlap to create width meaning there is not really any space to run into from the wings.
 
Damien said:
Not in recent weeks. Was only chosen as a sub vs Sevilla after we were losing with just 13 mins left of the game, not even picked off the bench v Swansea and unlikely to play much against City either.
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He played 90 vs Brighton which was the last game we played before the break.
 
breakout67 said:
I think you might need to refresh your grammar. When someone says that something happens regularly; it means over time. Looking at short term references for regularity defeats the purpose of the word completely.

Martial didn't play against Sevilla because he didn't have the qualities for the gameplan we wanted to execute (which was questionable, but it wasn't unfair treatment of Martial because it's not as if he was suitable for the gameplan and not picked). The idea was to get the game going through knockdowns from Fellaini, that's obviously not Martial's strength because he is a player that thrives off intricate passing not long balls and chasing second balls.

Shaw was hooked off at half time and singled out after the Birghton game. The manager was also visibly pissed off at the performance that the players put out, he was looking for a response after Sevilla. Why would the manager play someone in such a game if they didn't rate their potential?
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Really strange post. His grammar is fine, and he was correct in saying that you used the present tense; you're in the wrong, not he. Incidently, this is how you use a semi colon; while you were making fun of his grammar, you were butchering your punctuation.

The Sevilla match was the most important match of the season, as he pointed out.
 
redIndianDevil said:
The transition between attack and defence is much faster at City, they primarily use their wingers to run in behind, the ball is ably carried forward and possession is maintained by the midfielders, whereas in our setup it's pretty much the wingers who do the attacking, Matic and Pogba just pass it out wide.

Plus our passing is often very slow and by the time Martial has the ball he is already facing a deep defensive block and our fullbacks never overlap to create width meaning there is not really any space to run into from the wings.
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Oh our problems in attack run much deeper than Martial. I've talked ad nauseam on this forum on what i think our problems are so i won't reiterate here. But the simple action of running in behind is something that he should be capable of doing, and there are plenty of opportunities to do it. It comes down to attitude for me because he can do it, as he has shown from time to time, but he doesn't do it anywhere near enough. Now, while that may have something to do with how we play, there are still plenty of opportunities where he can make these runs...he just doesn't do it.

He can't be absolved of all blame here. His off the ball movement is simply not good enough.
 
Bad enough having Martial and Rashford swapping. Now we've bought Sanchez I don't see how we can make this work unless the young players can think long term. Certainly Sanchez can play in the middle sometimes and I've seen him play on the right years ago very effectively.

I do like Rashford and he's from Manchester, I'd prefer to keep him if one must go. I can also see Martial thriving somewhere else with regular starts, if we can't give him that and he's looking to move on we shouldn't hold the player back.
 
DonFerguson said:
Really strange post. His grammar is fine, and he was correct in saying that you used the present tense; you're in the wrong, not he. Incidently, this is how you use a semi colon; while you were making fun of his grammar, you were butchering your punctuation.

The Sevilla match was the most important match of the season, as he pointed out.
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You do know that using 'regularly' in the present tense means looking at the past right??? It doesn't mean actually looking at the present, because we aren't actually playing a game presently! And looking at a small sample means you can't actually tell if something is regular or not.

I was not making fun of his grammar, just saying what the world regularly actually means in a footballing context. A player can't play regularly in the space of 5 games because it's only 5 games, missing one game can massively change the percentage of games you've played, that's why you use an extended period of time. Martial also missed a few weeks through injury so using recent games makes even less sense.
 
He was our Ray of Hope during the Van Gaal years, and for that I'll always have a sentimental liking and support for him.

But with Lukaku having the CF position seemingly to himself for the next few years, we're left with three players who all need to play LW if they want a game, and it looks more and more that JM sees Sanchez as first choice LW despite what he said about Sanchez's ability to play anywhere across the forward line.

So although I'd hate for him to leave, I would be more than happy for him and his career if he did manage to find a regular starting spot at, say, PSG or Monaco because he deserves more than sitting on the bench week in, week out, with us.
 
Kostur said:
Martial: 11g 10a, 2082 minutes.
Lingard: 13g 5a, 2145 minutes.
Sane: 13g 15a, 2924 minutes.
Rashford: 12g 9a, 2248 minutes.

All comps, no idea (yeah right) why you decided to disregard cup competitions.

So basically world class prospect Martial has two goals less and 5 assists more than Plebgard who also played breathtaking 63 minutes more. We're trully fecked. The amount of bullshit you've managed to make up in this thread is amazing by the way.
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Haha... You my friend fail to see the point I was trying to make. Martial is one of our talented players with immense potential and he just got sidelined and isn't been playing enough despite him starting the season strong. He needs to play regularly in order for him to grow and reach his potential or we might lose him. No one actually reaches their true potential in the training ground. I can guarantee you that if he leaves United and if we sell him for Bale, he'll do well elsewhere because of the chances he'll get. And these rumors are starting to look more and more real since he didn't play over the weekend and I highly doubt he'll start against City.

Dude... If you are completely fine with Lingard being in our first 11, then go ahead and dab all you want. I don't believe in mediocrity and want us to actually reach the standards what Pep has set for us. We won't ever met that if Lingard and Fellaini feature in our team. This by no means, implies that I hate the two players, I just think they are better off being impact subs. Players like Martial need to be played regularly to get the best out of him. Sane who is of the same age played about 850+ min (by your numbers). I'm just saying he needs to be played more often. That's it!
 
Whenever I see Martial, the picture of a very talented yet nonchalant and perhaps full of himself player comes to mind.
He can put in an incredible performance today and then seem like an inconsistent, lazy player the next day.​

On the other hand, whenever I see Rashford, the picture of a talented, hungry and humble player comes to mind.

The reality for both players can of course be very different from my observations and my comment about Martial particularly, is not meant to be a criticism. A few legendary players were like that at his age.


But the thing is Martial is young so that potential he has can turn him into a world beater in the next few years.

However, becoming great at United will come down to two things:

1. Does he want to stay at United and patiently improving his craft under Jose (whether he plays 90 minutes in every game or not)?

2. Does Jose believe in him and is he willing to be patient with the kid?

If Martial feels he is not getting enough game time or he does not fancy the manger and he wants to leave, I believe Jose will be willing to cut him loose in exchange for any player he considers to be more mature.
 
Can easily see him being sold this summer if he does not sign a new contract. I would not begrudge him a move to a team which utilizes his talents fully.
 
Martial is a fantastic player but he definitely cannot be compared to the likes of Sane, Sterling etc because Martial is not a pure winger and he definitely will not grow into it because he does not have the instincts or the discipline to be a winger. He is inactive without the ball and does not make those wide runs. He's a beautiful player in the central area. He will one day become the best in the world when played in the ST,CF or in a 2 behind the striker. Sanchez needs to play on the left with Lukaku and Martial in front.
 
I haven’t seen anything in Martial to suggest he will be a great player. He has fantastic moments, but doesn’t appear to be someone who impresses with his work ethic and drive to become a fantastic player.

Would love him to step up and become the player we hope he could be, but think he’s very overrated by many on here. I don’t believe he could be someone who could drive their team to success like Hazard or Mahrez have in recent seasons.
 
Unfortunately i think he'll leave us soon.
They seem to like him over at RAWK, maybe a straight swap for Salah, then we'll have our right side sorted :p
No, i don't think i would want that trade, he'd score against us every time we played them!
 
Grylte said:
Unfortunately i think he'll leave us soon.
They seem to like him over at RAWK, maybe a straight swap for Salah, then we'll have our right side sorted :p
No, i don't think i would want thsat trade, he'd score against us every time we played them!
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Salah would be lucky to hit 15 goals all comps if he played for us, liverpool pass the ball much quicker and get their danger men in 1v1s or 2v2s far more then us, and thats on eof the reasons Salah have scored so many goals.Under lvg, even though we played very slow we eventually isolated the fullback wich Martial benefitted from, and could show terrorize defenders, just go watch west ham away.

oh white text..
 
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JPRouve said:
He has barely played there for Monaco and he was bad.
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Damien said:
If you're thinking of stuff like the game against Arsenal, he was on the left.
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I was just going off various "scouting reports" detailing what Manchester United have bought when he had just joined stating "he is effective on both flanks".

In any case, my predominant point was that if he learns the right-wing position then he is golden, and if what you point out regarding him having never really played there is true then that reinforces my point in explaining why is yet to star there for us. In the way that Mane has learned the left-wing for Liverpool, Robben learned the right-wing for Chelsea, there is no reason why Martial cannot learn the right-wing for ourselves given his skillset.

Indeed I think this is Mourinho's plan given that he initially tried him out there against Newcastle; he will start on the right defensively but offensively will tuck in to Lukaku as close as possible to let his goal threat shine through on his stronger foot and allow the right full-back to provide the width.
 
Hes incredibly overrated. The love for him on here reminds me of the time Welbeck left and some of the posters on here had to be put on suicide watch.
Hes a good player sure but is he vital to Uniteds success? Nope. I hope he stays but if his attitude/performances don't change then he needs to go
 
Despite being one of my fav Utd players I think the writings on the wall for Martial for a few reasons;

Firstly, I don’t see him fulfilling his potential under Mourinho due to their conflicting styles.

Secondly, playing time is obviously an issue since Sanchez’s arrival.

Thirdly, his contract situation means we have to make a decision on him in the summer and due to the issues above I think it’s in the best interest of all parties to call it quits.

Having said that I would like to see us have first refusal or a buy back clause of some sort since he truly is a phenomenal talent.
 
beingshe7don said:
Dude... If you are completely fine with Lingard being in our first 11, then go ahead and dab all you want
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Lazy boring and frankly embarrassing narrative, and bringing dabbing into this as a slight against Lingard shows your bias against the player.

Because all Plebgard offers is dabbing right? Let's ignore his man of the match performances away at Arsenal, winning goals against Chelsea, etc...
 
wolvored said:
Same as we can't play Martial, he's no good on the right
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He actually is. In Italy but also for Barca he played on the right with success, actually also for Arsenal. Someone even posted stats which showed he was very productive on the right. No idea why you think he cant play on the right.
 
endless_wheelies said:
I was just going off various "scouting reports" detailing what Manchester United have bought when he had just joined stating "he is effective on both flanks".

In any case, my predominant point was that if he learns the right-wing position then he is golden, and if what you point out regarding him having never really played there is true then that reinforces my point in explaining why is yet to star there for us. In the way that Mane has learned the left-wing for Liverpool, Robben learned the right-wing for Chelsea, there is no reason why Martial cannot learn the right-wing for ourselves given his skillset.

Indeed I think this is Mourinho's plan given that he initially tried him out there against Newcastle; he will start on the right defensively but offensively will tuck in to Lukaku as close as possible to let his goal threat shine through on his stronger foot and allow the right full-back to provide the width.
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The comparison with Robben and Mané isn't exactly fair, you are talking about a striker, not a left winger. Martial has been developed as a striker for the entirety of his youth career when we bought him he didn't had a all lot of games on the left either and it wasn't as a winger. It's a bit like Juventus trying to use Henry as a wingback.

Edit: Also Robben isn't equally good on both sides, there is a fair drop when he is on the left.
 
Escobar said:
He actually is. In Italy but also for Barca he played on the right with success, actually also for Arsenal. Someone even posted stats which showed he was very productive on the right. No idea why you think he cant play on the right.
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You cant compare other leagues to the premier. He started off at Arsenal on the right but was soon moved to the left or centre left as he plays a lot better from there. If you had a choice Sanchez L Martial R is much stronger (on paper at the moment) than Martial L Sanchez R. Martial is very inconsistent and hasnt improved in 2 years really and I know its taking Sanchez a bit of time to settle in, but next season you will see a big difference.
 
breakout67 said:
:lol: @Damien is selectively picking periods of the season to suit his point.

Martial rotates on the LW depending on what qualities are needed for the game. He is a valuable squad player that can develop into a guaranteed starter. But this is apparently not good enough and we should play Martial no matter what the game or his form despite his deficiencies in his game.
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why not? Apparently that is how sanchez works. Hasnt shown shit since coming here, and save for a decent first half against swansea has been a huge disappointment. Would have much rather just continued rotating martial/rashford there and saved the sanchez trouble.
 
FerociousCorgis said:
why not? Apparently that is how sanchez works. Hasnt shown shit since coming here, and save for a decent first half against swansea has been a huge disappointment. Would have much rather just continued rotating martial/rashford there and saved the sanchez trouble.
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Comparing a new signing to someone that's been here for 2+ years, fantastic reasoning skills there chief.
 
Kostur said:
So basically world class prospect Martial has two goals less and 5 assists more than Plebgard who also played breathtaking 63 minutes more. We're trully fecked. The amount of bullshit you've managed to make up in this thread is amazing by the way.
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:D
 
breakout67 said:
Comparing a new signing to someone that's been here for 2+ years, fantastic reasoning skills there chief.
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well apparently martial has to earn things, which what the hell do you call player of the month and pretty damn decent stats per 90, and sanchez gets to walk in and turn it over 39 times a game and do whatever the hell he wants. You completely missed my point squaw that it seems martial has these completely unrealistic standards he must meet to somehow justify his inclusion. If anything you are making my point for me that we allowed a player to just walk in and not earn anything while players who worked their ass off to get back in the good graces of the manager get shunted right back out of the squad.
 
FerociousCorgis said:
well apparently martial has to earn things, which what the hell do you call player of the month and pretty damn decent stats per 90, and sanchez gets to walk in and turn it over 39 times a game and do whatever the hell he wants. You completely missed my point squaw that it seems martial has these completely unrealistic standards he must meet to somehow justify his inclusion. If anything you are making my point for me that we allowed a player to just walk in and not earn anything while players who worked their ass off to get back in the good graces of the manager get shunted right back out of the squad.
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- Player of the month (meaningless)
- Goals and assists stats (ignoring actual performances, similar to Mkhitaryan)
- False realities about his work on the pitch

Straight out of the Martial FC playbook

I've had this conversation enough times in the Martial thread so I'll have to disagree and be done with it.
 
FerociousCorgis said:
well apparently martial has to earn things, which what the hell do you call player of the month and pretty damn decent stats per 90, and sanchez gets to walk in and turn it over 39 times a game and do whatever the hell he wants. You completely missed my point squaw that it seems martial has these completely unrealistic standards he must meet to somehow justify his inclusion. If anything you are making my point for me that we allowed a player to just walk in and not earn anything while players who worked their ass off to get back in the good graces of the manager get shunted right back out of the squad.
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They are not unrealistic. He's the most gifted young player we've had for a long time and if he doesn't hit those heights consistently he's benched. Pogba is in the same boat in that respect. If they don't react in the right way they will be out of the picture....its a perfectly ok situation.....and as to the reason why they might not get the same slack as others....they both might not put the same effort in or listen to the manager's instructions or god knows what....
 
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