Champions League Quarter Finals (3rd - 11th April)

What a mental round of CL football. Madness.

Real and Liverpool have got to hold the edge in terms of the semi's. But I'll always hold a soft spot for wanting a team who are rolling domestically to win too so I guess I'm leaning towards Bayern and I'd be quite the hypocrite if I said I wanted Roma to win....given it'd smell of the similarity of Liverpool/Chelsea wins, which show both the absolute absurdity and greatness of the tournament I guess.
 
Samid said:


No Dave? Send this muppet crying into retirement tonight will you Ronnie.
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Cheers Ronnie. Proper karma for excluding DDG from his top 5.
 
Andycoleno9 said:
They scored after 3 crosses. They should do it more. It was obvious that mandzukic and higuain are better than real defenders in the air.
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They cross when Mandzu is guarded by the fullback... Remember the Bayern match against your team under Moyes when Vidic and ? were guarding Müller and Mandzu was guarded by Evra?

About the chances in today's Bayern match:

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It was a penalty.

Alex Sandro should do a lot better at stopping Ronaldo getting a header in though.
 
I wonder if we aren't ultimately arguing about what the point of sport is. The conventional wisdom appears to be that sport, like math, is an exercise in which certain rules are applied at all times, in all circumstances, in the same way. That all circumstances are the same, and the only thing we’re doing when we watch sports is observing the aggregation of unrelated actions, which are summed up at the conclusion to decide which side is superior.

A different view of sport, which I subscribe to, is that it is a story. In any given football match, a narrative develops that informs how the players play, how the referee referees, and how we, as fans, understand and relate to what is happening. The narrative does not supersede the rules, but it informs them. If Benatia had cut out Velazquez’s legs, then rules are rules, it’s a pen. But here, where Velazquez gets a slight touch on the back, and perhaps minor contact on the kick, we must consider the narrative of the tie. Through this lens, it is a disservice to the players and the fans to destroy a brilliant, almost cinematic tie, with this imposition of technocratic order. No one is better off – the players’ game is divested of its beauty, and the fans are deprived of any fitting outcome to the story.
 
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Joe Cole Is Exhausted said:
I wonder if we aren't ultimately arguing about what the point of sport is. The conventional wisdom appears to be that sport, like math, is an exercise in which certain rules are applied at all times, in all circumstances, in the same way. That all circumstances are the same, and the only thing we’re doing when we watch sports is observing the aggregation of unrelated actions, which are summed up at the conclusion to decide which side is superior.

A different view of sport, which I subscribe to, is that it is a story. In any given football match, a narrative develops that informs how the players play, how the referee referees, and how we, as fans, understand and relate to what is happening. The narrative does not supersede the rules, but it informs them. If Benatia had cut out Velazquez’s legs, then rules are rules, it’s a pen. But here, where Velazquez gets a slight touch on the back, and perhaps minor contact on the kick, we must consider the narrative of the tie. Through this lens, it is a disservice to the players and the fans to destroy a brilliant, almost cinematic tie, with this imposition of technocratic order. No one is better off – the players’ game is divested of its beauty, and the fans are deprived of any fitting outcome to the story.
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It's supposed to be spontaneous, not scripted or preordained; that is its beauty.
 
General Franco's Champions League

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B&Wandmore said:
yes good referees read games, this was a very dubious penalty it is ridiculous to give it at that stage, red card to Buffon also a joke
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Oliver read that game very well he awarded Real a stonewall penalty in the last minute of injury time. I'm afraid he was just doing his job out there as, you know, a football referee.
 
Buffon: “It was a tenth of a penalty,” the captain told Mediaset Premium.

“I know the referee saw, it was certainly a dubious incident. And a dubious incident at the 93rd minute when we had a clear penalty denied in the first leg, you cannot award that at this point.

“The team gave its all, but a human being cannot destroy dreams like that at the end of an extraordinary comeback on a dubious situation.

“Clearly you cannot have a heart in your chest, but a garbage bin. On top of that, if you don’t have the character to walk on a pitch like this in a stadium like this, you can sit in the stands with your wife, your kids, drinking your Sprite and eating crisps.

“You cannot ruin the dreams of a team.

“Real Madrid deserved to go through over the two legs, I wish them the best and it has always been an honour for me to face this club, but objectively we at least deserved to go to extra time tonight.
 
Joe Cole Is Exhausted said:
I wonder if we aren't ultimately arguing about what the point of sport is. The conventional wisdom appears to be that sport, like math, is an exercise in which certain rules are applied at all times, in all circumstances, in the same way. That all circumstances are the same, and the only thing we’re doing when we watch sports is observing the aggregation of unrelated actions, which are summed up at the conclusion to decide which side is superior.

A different view of sport, which I subscribe to, is that it is a story. In any given football match, a narrative develops that informs how the players play, how the referee referees, and how we, as fans, understand and relate to what is happening. The narrative does not supersede the rules, but it informs them. If Benatia had cut out Velazquez’s legs, then rules are rules, it’s a pen. But here, where Velazquez gets a slight touch on the back, and perhaps minor contact on the kick, we must consider the narrative of the tie. Through this lens, it is a disservice to the players and the fans to destroy a brilliant, almost cinematic tie, with this imposition of technocratic order. No one is better off – the players’ game is divested of its beauty, and the fans are deprived of any fitting outcome to the story.
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If only drama students were chosen as refs. UEFA would be smashing box office records everywhere
 
Joe Cole Is Exhausted said:
I wonder if we aren't ultimately arguing about what the point of sport is. The conventional wisdom appears to be that sport, like math, is an exercise in which certain rules are applied at all times, in all circumstances, in the same way. That all circumstances are the same, and the only thing we’re doing when we watch sports is observing the aggregation of unrelated actions, which are summed up at the conclusion to decide which side is superior.

A different view of sport, which I subscribe to, is that it is a story. In any given football match, a narrative develops that informs how the players play, how the referee referees, and how we, as fans, understand and relate to what is happening. The narrative does not supersede the rules, but it informs them. If Benatia had cut out Velazquez’s legs, then rules are rules, it’s a pen. But here, where Velazquez gets a slight touch on the back, and perhaps minor contact on the kick, we must consider the narrative of the tie. Through this lens, it is a disservice to the players and the fans to destroy a brilliant, almost cinematic tie, with this imposition of technocratic order. No one is better off – the players’ game is divested of its beauty, and the fans are deprived of any fitting outcome to the story.
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It appears what you’re talking about is that you want sport to be, to a degree, scripted. Sorry, but sport doesn’t work that way. Applying rules variably is what does a disservice to the players and fans.

I’m pretty shocked that we’re debating that something that is a penalty in the 1st minute isn’t also a penalty in the last minute. Rules are literally the cornerstone of sport.

Let’s say in Wimbledon this year Roger Federer comes from 2 sets down in the final and has a match point where his shit misses the line by a millimetre, would you say it should be in so as to “serve the narrative”?
 
Great match.

I'd like to see Real Madrid make the final. . . and lose (although not to Liverpool)
 
B&Wandmore said:
yes good referees read games, this was a very dubious penalty it is ridiculous to give it at that stage, red card to Buffon also a joke
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It was a pen , Buffon cleary pushed the ref , pen and red card.
Why is it ridiculous to give at that stage? for me he read the game very well, your just pissed off , which I understand , but the shit that Oliver is getting is shocking.
1st minute of 91st minute if its a pen and red card ists a pen and red card.
 
Nick7 said:
Yes, I do. The ref would definitely have given a that penalty to Juve, because it was a penalty.

That "non existent" shit is bollocks, because it was a foul and therefore a penalty.

Yes Ronaldo would have been sent off for pushing the ref, because pushing the ref is a red card offence.

Are you dim?
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Watch around 2:30.

Thing is, Buffon doesn't actually push the ref. He is trying to get to him and someone (Costa I think) pushes him onto to the ref. The ref clearly doesn't see this and just feels someone on him and thinks Buffon is pushing him. Buffon has one arm around a ball and the other pushing his own players away.



If the ref took a second and asked his assistants for help, he would have known Buffon didn't push him. Ref reacted emotionally there.
 
slyadams said:
It appears what you’re talking about is that you want sport to be, to a degree, scripted. Sorry, but sport doesn’t work that way. Applying rules variably is what does a disservice to the players and fans.
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Ah, but what is "a disservice to the players and fans" is precisely what I'm suggesting is in dispute! I think yours is a fair philosophy, but mine is that the end of that match--awarding an iffy penalty in those circumstances--is the real disservice. It depends on what we think the point of the whole thing is! I'm suggesting that some people, like me, and clearly like Gianluigi Buffon, believe that there is a larger story that we are all servicing.

slyadams said:
I’m pretty shocked that we’re debating that something that is a penalty in the 1st minute isn’t also a penalty in the last minute. Rules are literally the cornerstone of sport.

Let’s say in Wimbledon this year Roger Federer comes from 2 sets down in the final and has a match point where his shit misses the line by a millimetre, would you say it should be in so as to “serve the narrative”?
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This is a fair point, to which I'd say, tennis is just not similar to football. It is technocratic by its nature, like baseball. Football, by contrast, is a blank page. Tennis is fun, but it can never be beautiful in the way football is.
 
Very professional and leveled display for Bayern for 135 minutes of the two ties. It's fine to give Sevilla credit, they didn't look bad in the tie and looked very good at times but as soon as that half time whistle in the 1st leg sounded Bayern didn't let Sevilla back into it. Should have won it tonight despite not trying their best to exactly beat Sevilla in this specific match. They just did what they had to do to go through.
 
RedStarUnited said:
Watch around 2:30.

Thing is, Buffon doesn't actually push the ref. He is trying to get to him and someone (Costa I think) pushes him onto to the ref. The ref clearly doesn't see this and just feels someone on him and thinks Buffon is pushing him. Buffon has one arm around a ball and the other pushing his own players away.

If the ref took a second and asked his assistants for help, he would have known Buffon didn't push him. Ref reacted emotionally there.
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Cant really say, as there is about 10 secs worth of clip which we dont see before Oliver sends him off. Also no idea what was said?
 
Considering the outrage on here when Nani was sent off against Real and Rafael Vs Bayern, I wonder what the reaction would be tonight had we been in Juve's position.

If that's Phil Jones on Vasquez and DDG being sent off, I bet those who are advocating following the letter of the law to the letter regardless of situation or circumstance wouldn't be as defensive about the decision.

Juve and their fans will be seething and rightly so, because a whole QF tie which they had done so well to come back into was brought crashing down by a bellend in the middle only too keen to dramatise the final few seconds and have an early night.

(May come across as biased but what the hell)
 
Munkehboi said:
Cant really say, as there is about 10 secs worth of clip which we dont see before Oliver sends him off. Also no idea what was said?
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My friend, you can see in that clip Oliver is dealing with something else completely different. He feels someone nudge him, turns and sees Buffon, assumes its Buffon who done it and gives him a red card.

I don't think it was anything more than that.
 
slyadams said:
It appears what you’re talking about is that you want sport to be, to a degree, scripted. Sorry, but sport doesn’t work that way. Applying rules variably is what does a disservice to the players and fans.

I’m pretty shocked that we’re debating that something that is a penalty in the 1st minute isn’t also a penalty in the last minute. Rules are literally the cornerstone of sport.

Let’s say in Wimbledon this year Roger Federer comes from 2 sets down in the final and has a match point where his shit misses the line by a millimetre, would you say it should be in so as to “serve the narrative”?
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Absolutely. And my question to those who think 'narratives' matter in light of a refereeing decision, who exactly is entitled to decide a particular narrative in the first place? Because surely, by definition, any given narrative is subject to personal opinions or even feelings towards something.

I just don't get it.
 
HTG said:
Off course not. I know very well that we’re not as good as we used to be. We’re playing a relatively weak season. But that doesn’t change anything about our performance against Sevilla. We progressed with ease. They had about one actual opportunity to score, that’s it. It‘s a bit ridiculous that some guys on here undermine a perfectly fine performance, to feel better about their team screwing up against a clearly inferior side.
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The entire point I'm making is that they are not "a clearly inferior side". No matter how you paint it, 2:1 aggregate is not a convincing result. Don't even try to convince anyone that Bayern didn't want to score more.
 
Irrational. said:
Considering the outrage on here when Nani was sent off against Real and Rafael Vs Bayern, I wonder what the reaction would be tonight had we been in Juve's position.
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I'd be really upset if I was a Juve fan, but what's that got to do with anything? As we're not Juve fans we might as well talk about it as observers - and most of us observed a foul followed by conduct that led to a sending off.

If the ref has to base his decisions on how upset will the fans be if he has to make a call in the last minute, what's the point in having a ref for the full 90 minutes?
 
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