How many full matches have you seen of Asensio to know that he isn't making the same mistakes particularly given the fact that he was dropped by Zidane for exactly this and he even admitted this in an interview?
Martial has got to remain at United | No, he hasn't been unfollowing United players on Instagram
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
How many full matches have you seen of Asensio to know that he isn't making the same mistakes particularly given the fact that he was dropped by Zidane for exactly this and he even admitted this in an interview?
I’d take Willian over him any day of the week he’s 100x the player martial is.
If there’s any deal to be done with him going to Chelsea and us getting Willian then we should snap there hand off
What about in 2years time. Is it still a good deal?
Massive overrating of Willian
Yes it will because in 2 years Willian will have produced the goods whereas in 2 years Martial will still have failed to rise to his potential Balon d'or status/world class ceiling!
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If griezmann makes the move to Barcelona, we should go for Dembele not Willian. I want Martial to stay. Selling him to Chelsea would be unbearable. If I was to sell anyone it would Juan Mata. He doesn't really fit in as a right winger.
Pretty much
I hope Anthony has good people around him. He's a massive talent with 2 years left on his contract, and I don't see where he can go without taking a step down. Barca, Real, Athletico, Juve, Bayern, PSG... they're all going to expect more consistency from him than he's shown for us. Everybody seems to think he'll thrive under another manager and become a world class player... but what separates world-class players from the rest is usually their mental strength. Martial needs to develop this area, or he isn't going to thrive anywhere. Fortunately, Mourinho is as good at the mental side of the game as anyone. If Martial, or Rashford for that matter, think they're too talented to learn from Mourinho, then it doesn't matter what coach we'd bring in.
There is no problem with taking a step down, if players were more focused on football than appearances they would do it more often. People often bring De Bruyne into the Martial conversation and he is an example of a player that took a step down, Higuain is an other example. Rashford and Martial are in a not so common situation where they have been in a huge club since 19 years old and people have expected things that are almost never expected from players with that amount of experience and at that stage of development. Truth be told, we talk about their attitude but we fans are the ones with terrible attitude, we just don't think and put weird expectations on players.
This, ridiculous expectations on the two lads really. Oddly its from his biggest fans too who hype them up with no patience.
Why can't Martial just be an emerging talent that is inconsistent and will come in and out of the team until he matures. You don't hear this toxic atmosphere with Bernardo Silva or Jesus for instance, everyone just accepts the situation.
Yeah because in that time he will contribute more in 2 seasons to the team than martial has done since he joined.
Also by that time I’m sure there will be plenty of other options available should we need it.
It’s not the fans it’s the manger. We accept they wr young and learning. But everytime they put in a young and learning performance we are told about it in post match interviews to the point we start applying pressure on the players to get up to the managers standard, whatever that is.
We hope and by contribute I hope you mean win a major trophy because Building team for the future goes out the window when you collect players who should be ready.
Thats part of their learning process though. I know some don't like his methods but Jose has a way of working to push the players forward. His ex-players talk about it all the time. Not to say he's always right to do so but his intent is obvious.
Unfortunately him doing that seems to create sides in the argument yes. I've given up hoping our fans see that as its unreasonable to think they should.
He does what I’m trying to figure out though is does it work with youth? I don’t think it does and don’t think we can expect Mourinho to buy into buying players like Memphis, Martial, Dembele and improving them to a top level.
Mentioned Memphis referring to type of transfer he was obviously not going to be a top level player.
It was only based on loose twitter sources anyway so probably isn’t true but in Willian I see a top quality and proven player filling a position we are seriously lacking in and have been for quite some time. It will make a huge difference to our team. I don't think we are too far off winning a major trophy anyway if we could find consistency then we would have taken City all the way this season and according to media and some united fans this season was awful. (Boring yes but not awful).
“I had a rough year, my first year at Man City, a big club for a big transfer fee,” said Sterling. “There was a lot of talk, a lot of pressure, and I didn’t think I was being spoken about in a fair manner.
“As a young boy – I was 20-21, around that age – I didn’t think I was being treated right. It can affect anyone, not just me. It was about how I bounced back, how I had to think and sit down and try to move on. Not let that defeat me.
“It’s obviously disappointing, when you put on the shirt and get negative feedback, but at the same time the fans want to see you perform well. I’ve learned they’re not doing it in a malicious way, they’re doing it in a way to make you know you need to step up. In a way, it’s good for someone like me because I thrive on stuff like that.”
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“He [Guardiola] lets you know when he’s not happy with you,” said Sterling. “I remember coming on against Crystal Palace. I lost the ball three times and I didn’t think I was going to play until the end of the season after he killed me in the dressing room.
“A manager like that brings the best out of you, when he makes sure to tell you when you’re in the wrong.”
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Maybe our precious Tony should hang out a bit with Sterling.
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One of the things about Jose at Chelsea was that their transfer business used to be the envy of the league. If someone wasn’t working out they’d move them on quickly and extract a great transfer fee usually. United, on the other hand, kept players around until their transfer value was practically nil and it was certain they’d not make grade. It’s only recently we’ve realized Chelsea’s business was perhaps a bit too short sighted: Lukaku, De Bruyne, Salah. I’m just not sure if Martial is the next Salah or the next Januzaj.
And some people think Guardiola will accept player like Toni , He would be shipped out immediately if it was who replaced LVG.
It’s a real thing.
Anyone questioning Martial's mentality should have a look back on his first season. Signing for one of biggest clubs in the world with a record transfer fee, the weight of demand to replace two famous predecessors (RVP + Falcao) plus pressure from English press were heavily on his shoulder. Martial showed his calmness and overcame it with a fantastic start, by that time he was still a teenager. Then came a goal drought during mid-season and some doubt had been re-cast upon his ability, but again Martial proved himself by a cracking goal against Everton in FA semi on our journey to the only title of that season. The current situation is nothing comparing to that period.
There have been many proofs of Jose's discrimination between Martial and other players, especially the cruel way he ended Martial amazing form in January to accomodate Sanchez. It's not Martial's or any player in the world's mentality to have a manager who never trusts him totally. When you tried and try over two seasons but still can not touch the manager's heart even at your best then inevitably there will come a point where you cant stand it anymore and feel the need to move on
There have been many proofs of Jose's discrimination between Martial and other players, especially the cruel way he ended Martial amazing form in January to accomodate Sanchez. It's not Martial's or any player in the world's mentality to have a manager who never trusts him totally. When you tried and try over two seasons but still can not touch the manager's heart even at your best then inevitably there will come a point where you cant stand it anymore and feel the need to move on
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"Touch the manager's heart" are you kidding me ? Players have to do that now to play ?
It's genuinely this creepy type of shit that makes me indifferent to whether he leaves or not because at least this type of shit will feck off with him going.
One can hope so.
This post reminds me of the nonsensical slave comments made about Ronaldo. So laughably over the top.
Yeah, dont engage with any content of the post - just go on about the wording of one phrase.
Youre assuming that the poster is a native english speaker. Its just a phrase. His larger point is still valid, which you've completely ignored.
I dont think Jose has anything against Martial at a personal level and i dont think theres any solid proof to substantiate your claim.
I can understand the frustration of the fans, they want to see the same level of performance and promise that he showed under van gaal. Fans also have a romantic notion of seeing the rise of another Ronaldo like player - coming from obscurity to become great/world class player. It cannot be said with surety that Martial will be that player. I personally dont think he will reach that level.
But one thing is for certain, he wont do it under Mourinho. Martial's languid style doesnt fit well with Moruinho's expectations of dogged, self sacrificing performances. Jose's also had problems with Martials lack of off the ball movement, which he has complained about last season. He's had problems with attack minded players like Ronaldo and Hazard, why should Martial be any different.
If Mourinho is the manager, we have to back him completely. Theres no room for half measures. The ideal scenario would be to loan out Martial for two seasons or to sell him with a buy back clause and to go out and buy a proper RW and strengthen our team. The club and the fan base need to look at this pragmatically instead of being too emotional.
You're assuming that I'm assuming. No, I'm not assuming anything, this absurd melodramatic undertone of poor Martial is interwoven in most threads on him and is not exclusive to the poster I've quoted. Judas' post above encompasses my feelings pretty well.
its not my intention to get into an argument with you.
"this creepy type of shit" are the words you used to define his entire post. He isn't responsible for all that is said about this topic by everyone else. He can only be responsible for what he is stating. And his statements are valid up to a point. But you reduced his point to one line because 'other' people have said something before. To me thats illogical. Maybe its you thats being melodramatic now?
He won't accept the sulkiness, but he might utilize Toni better. Maybe.
I agree that Willian is a better player.....today. But Martial has the potential to be a World-class player - Willian realistically has 2-3 seasons left at his current level and very Little sell-on value.
The difference is that Sterling didn't get frozen out of the team whilst in bad run of form, nor does Pep air his dirty laundry with him in the media. It's all done behind closed doors and not made a public event.
City fans never turned their backs on Sterling like a large portion of United fans have either. They wanted to see him succeed like he has done this season, not dissect every weakness to his game in order to side with Mourinho.
Yeah - or turned into Sterling
@Vanya There was a post in one of Martial leaving threads that told everything about Jose's discrimination against Martial over last two years. For example, in a pre-match press conference last season, Jose had promised that if Martial played well, he would certainly retain his place the match after. Martial was MOTM of that match but Jose still dropped him without any reason in the next fixture.
You're right about the similarity between Ronaldo, Hazard and Martial. Jose had the same demand over those three, however unlike Martial, even kept moaning about how lazy they were doing track back job, Jose never dropped Ronaldo, Hazard or switched them to the opposite wing, especially when they were still producing.
P/s: my previous post has been edited. I can confirm my English is total crap, no doubt about it, however luckily this place isnt a grammar forum
You're right about the similarity between Ronaldo, Hazard and Martial. Jose had the same demand over those three, however unlike Martial, even kept moaning about how lazy they were doing track back job, Jose never dropped Ronaldo, Hazard or switched them to the opposite wing, especially when they were still producing.
P/s: my previous post has been edited. I can confirm my English is total crap, no doubt about it, however luckily this place isnt a grammar forum
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Pep doesn't kill his players in the media
Sterling:
- still a shite finisher
- still struggles with retaining and controlling the ball
Sterling hasn't been changed very much by Guardiola, he simply plays in a more dominating team and so gets more chances in the final third. His movement was top class at Liverpool and was why City bought him.
Sterling was also bought for more than Martial, and with Martial not going to the world cup it is virtually guaranteed that he will be significantly cheaper than Sterling.
LOL. Sure, Sterling has not improved under Pep. I see a Sterling who is a much better passer and team player, and someone who picks his spots on when to dribble much better. His finishing is better but still has blunders like most players. You might eat your words during the WC.
Potential means nothing if he hasn’t got the right mental attitude, he doesn’t seem to have the drive to hit his potential.
Who said he has not improved?
Guardiola will not turn Martial into Sterling because he's not a magician. Just like he hasn't developed Sterling to have the ball control of Martial or the lethal finishing of Martial.
Sterling is the same profile of player as before Guardiola, he's simply better at being that type of player because Guardiola provides a platform for him to show his strengths.
A shite finisher who scored as many as Martial and Rashford combined.