Day 4: Costa Rica vs Serbia, Germany vs Mexico , Brazil vs Switzerland

Santi_Mesut_Alexis_87 said:
Only Spain has impressed as big team so far. Brazil looks good, but too lazy and cocky. Germany well, they were fecking pathetic today.
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I get that with them too.

Considering that they lost their last two world cup games by an aggregate of 10-1 and having seen what just happened to Germany I expected more.

I think this Brazil side are deluding themselves into how good they really are.

Maybe this is the year of a shock winner.
 
Ban said:
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K2K said:
This Brazil side doesn't look any better than most of the ones that have struggled since 2002.

Against a decent team like Netherlands in 2010 could easily see them losing.

No one stands out in this tournament so far. Brazil included.
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We struggled in the first game in 2002 and 98 as well. He’ll even the beloved 82 Brazil struggled in the opener. It’s our niche.
 
K2K said:
This Brazil side doesn't look any better than most of the ones that have struggled since 2002.

Against a decent team like Netherlands in 2010 could easily see them losing.

No one stands out in this tournament so far. Brazil included.
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Well, lets see what is gonna happen next. I'm not so pessimist like you.

Any middle table side created dozens of chances against the favorites so far. Its not the case with Brazil. If we dont face Germany i believe we will be ok.
 
Great games today. Enjoyed watching them a lot.

When's the last time that the many favourites for the world cup didn't win their starting games. As of now, only France have won. Spain, Brazil, and Argentina have drawn. Germany have lost.

Would have been big odds before the tournament began. Only Belgium need to draw tomorrow to make this even more intriguing!
 
Shiva87 said:
Great games today. Enjoyed watching them a lot.

When's the last time that the many favourites for the world cup didn't win their starting games. As of now, only France have won. Spain, Brazil, and Argentina have drawn. Germany have lost.

Would have been big odds before the tournament began. Only Belgium need to draw tomorrow to make this even more intriguing!
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If Belgium draw tomorrow then they should sack Matinez on the spot. Agree, though, it has not been as straight forward as some have thought. That is what makes it so intriguing.
 
Fenomeno9 said:
We struggled in the first game in 2002 and 98 as well. He’ll even the beloved 82 Brazil struggled in the opener. It’s our niche.
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Our point is that you have struggled in recent world cup openings too.

For example against Croatia four years ago. Hardly impressive in 2010(North Korea) or 2006 either.

This might less of 98 and 02 and more of those recent world cups were Brazil have continually struggled and being dumped out the cup as soon as they met decent opposition.

This Brazil side also probably has more to prove than any Brazillian side probably since the 54 side . You would expect a performance to show that. Simply none of that tonight.
 
Charles Miller said:
Well, lets see what is gonna happen next. I'm not so pessimist like you.

Any middle table side created dozens of chances against the favorites so far. Its not the case with Brazil. If we dont face Germany i believe we will be ok.
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Brazil didn't create much themselves though.

But we will see..at least you are better than Argentina who might have just 2 more games in this tournament. But that's a story for another day .
 
K2K said:
Brazil didn't create much themselves though.

But we will see..at least you are better than Argentina who might have just 2 more games in this tournament. But that's a story for another day .
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No way Argentina messes up against Nigeria and Croatia
 
I think people overexaggerate. Hyping them up before the tournament and then beating them up because they didnt beat the Swiss. A loss would be bad, but a draw is fine. They onviously should have done more after the first goal. But they were almost never troubled defensively and created some chances offensively. I guess people expect the top teams to beat everyone in their first game.

Germany should be more worried, their shape was all over the place. France, Argentina, Brazil and Spain looked in control for the majority of their games, Germany not. A lot of work ahead for them
 
El-Buitre said:
Portugal how? they were pretty average and got a draw because De Gea played like crap and the referee helped them a lot.
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I don't think they were average at all. They were quite strong on the counter and matched Spain for large parts of the game.
 
Kind of a shame that they have a group full of more defensively solid sides. Would be interesting seeing a team with real attacking pace going at that Brazil defence because they looked very vulnerable defensively on plenty of occasions. Itll come in the knockouts, and we'll see how they fare. Early days, but they obviously didnt impress at all and a draw was the fair result in this one. Could equally see them go all the way and win and could equally see them crash home early in the knockouts.

Most impressive sides were Portugal and Spain equally. Spain showed periods of proper dominance like in their old days, plenty of creativity, technical ability like no other country, and composure on the ball, but then they also had their weaknesses and Portugal counter attacked them expertly, while having a very good game plan and getting the best out of possibly the most influential and decisive player of all time, which counts for a hell of a lot.
 
Prometheus said:
What? You can't possibly be serious!
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They convince themselves and have to convince everyone that they're the best team in the world even though they never proved it. Just like they tried doing in 2014, and with it being I'm Brazil it's like they felt it was destiny that they had to win it (until they were put in their place). A pretty much 50/50 performance against Switzerland is in no way anything to be proud of for Brazil. The swiss are decent but come on. There was no creativity in attack and all it showed were frailties defensively and that Neymar can be frustrated really easily.
 
bosnian_red said:
They convince themselves and have to convince everyone that they're the best team in the world even though they never proved it. Just like they tried doing in 2014, and with it being I'm Brazil it's like they felt it was destiny that they had to win it (until they were put in their place). A pretty much 50/50 performance against Switzerland is in no way anything to be proud of for Brazil. The swiss are decent but come on. There was no creativity in attack and all it showed were frailties defensively and that Neymar can be frustrated really easily.
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Brazilians won 25% of the world cups.

Swirzerland created nothing, just like any team that played against Brazil in the last two years. Your opinion in some previous post that the defense look weak is laughable. What are talking about? How many chances they had? When you need a goal and go to attack players will be out of posirion some times.

And we are not trying to convince nobody that we're favorites. Is not the Brazilian media or fans that are hyping Brazil. The favorite for Brazilians was always Germany and opinion polls show that 53% of Brazilians dont even care about this world cup.

You're talking nonsense.
 
K2K said:
Brazil didn't create much themselves though.

But we will see..at least you are better than Argentina who might have just 2 more games in this tournament. But that's a story for another day .
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Paulinho lost an easy goal in the first half. Coutinho lost one in the second haf inside the box, Firmino had his chance and Miranda lost one inside the box. Neymar will not be 100% in the group stage. The attack will never be really strong in that period because he is the best player.
 
Charles Miller said:
The favorite for Brazilians was always Germany and opinion polls show that 53% of Brazilians dont even care about this world cup.
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Because they got destroyed in 2014? It can't have been easy. People were laughing at Saudi Arabia for years for losing 8-0 in 2002 but for it to happen to Brazil at their own country.
 
Charles Miller said:
Brazilians won 25% of the world cups.

Swirzerland created nothing, just like any team that played against Brazil in the last two years. Your opinion in some previous post that the defense look weak is laughable. What are talking about? How many chances they had? When you need a goal and go to attack players will be out of posirion some times.

And we are not trying to convince nobody that we're favorites. Is not the Brazilian media or fans that are hyping Brazil. The favorite for Brazilians was always Germany and opinion polls show that 53% of Brazilians dont even care about this world cup.

You're talking nonsense.
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Brazil didnt create quality chances. A lot of small chances. The correct result was 1-1, in the balance of chances.
Also yeah, past teams of Brazil. Been 16 years since the last win though, and this one is closer the the last few then those winning teams. I think Brazil is a good side, but so many are quick to put them at the top without them showing it. So what if they performed well in the qualifiers? What did they do at the last Copa America? Or last World Cup? Not much is the answer.
 
Prometheus said:
Because they got destroyed in 2014? It can't have been easy. People were laughing at Saudi Arabia for years for losing 8-0 in 2002 but for it to happen to Brazil at their own country.
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Its possible. But that was exactly my point. Contrary to what the other guy said, Brazilians are not "trying to convince the world they are the best".

This was always a team to reach a semifinal, not to win the wc.
 
bosnian_red said:
Brazil didnt create quality chances. A lot of small chances. The correct result was 1-1, in the balance of chances.
Also yeah, past teams of Brazil. Been 16 years since the last win though, and this one is closer the the last few then those winning teams. I think Brazil is a good side, but so many are quick to put them at the top without them showing it. So what if they performed well in the qualifiers? What did they do at the last Copa America? Or last World Cup? Not much is the answer.
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xG is nice and all but it doesn't offer the whole picture. Makes a world of difference if you have Coutinho or Zuber in each of the yellow dots outside the box. If it was Coutinho, it'd be at least a half-decent chance whereas Zuber would fail to score 99% from these positions. Or are the dots personalized?

Personally I thought Brazil was the better team by quite some margin and the Swiss were lucky to get that goal. But to conclude from that fact, that Brazil played well defensively is wrong imo.Brazils defensive shape allowed too much open spaces that Switzerland simply failed to convert into chances mainly due to lack of ability.
 
bosnian_red said:

Brazil didnt create quality chances. A lot of small chances. The correct result was 1-1, in the balance of chances.
Also yeah, past teams of Brazil. Been 16 years since the last win though, and this one is closer the the last few then those winning teams. I think Brazil is a good side, but so many are quick to put them at the top without them showing it. So what if they performed well in the qualifiers? What did they do at the last Copa America? Or last World Cup? Not much is the answer.
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Well, this is a fair post. Also i'm probably not able to have a 100% unbiased opinion since i'm not neutral.

Winning the wc is not so important to me as a supporter. Its hard to win anyway. What i dont like is see Brazil playing an alien style. I'm pretty sure Tite is trying to bring back our old style. Is not easy. Will take time. Maybe in 2022 with new midfielders.

If during the wc we can play Brazilian Football i dont care if we lose. First game that i watched was Italy 3-2 Brazil in 1982. I would rather that game than to win like in 1994.
 
What do you guys think about the overall quality of this WC, think its been great in terms of quality and entertainment though I've missed some games. Some previous tournaments had some very pointless or one sided games in the group stages but apart from the RUS/Saudi game all the other games I've seen have been mostly evenly matched and great to watch
 
fellaini's barber said:
What do you guys think about the overall quality of this WC, think its been great in terms of quality and entertainment though I've missed some games. Some previous tournaments had some very pointless or one sided games in the group stages but apart from the RUS/Saudi game all the other games I've seen have been mostly evenly matched and great to watch
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It's been awesome. Quality of football has been good, lots of close and entertaining matches, plenty of great goals, VAR has worked well and all the favourites have been having problems.

Don't think you could have asked for more.
 
Brazil were as disappointing as the other big nations so far, they had a 20 minute spell in the first half where they layed some decent stuff but they tailed off badly. Was Fred injured? As Brazil made 2 CM substitutions and he didn't get on.
 
Peyroteo said:
It's been awesome. Quality of football has been good, lots of close and entertaining matches, plenty of great goals, VAR has worked well and all the favourites have been having problems.

Don't think you could have asked for more.
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I don’t think the quality of the football has been great; if it had been, the favourites wouldn’t have struggled like they have.

I agree with all your other points though, and would add the quality of the refereeing which has been excellent. I’m not sure to what extent VAR has helped the refs do a better job, or whether the painless way VAR has been used is down to the excellence of the refs. Whatever, I hope the English FA is paying attention.
 
I'm not sure I follow all of the 'brazil always starts slow' or 'brazil always starts tournaments like this'. They may not always play well but they ALWAYS win their first match of a World Cup. At least as far back as 1998 if not longer. They usually find a way to win even if its a tight game. Today was just not good enough. They have work to do if they want to top the group. They can certainly get out of it but Tite is going to have to make some changes.
 
Devil may care said:
Brazil were as disappointing as the other big nations so far, they had a 20 minute spell in the first half where they layed some decent stuff but they tailed off badly. Was Fred injured? As Brazil made 2 CM substitutions and he didn't get on.
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Yeah, he wasn't on the bench.
 
Devil may care said:
Brazil were as disappointing as the other big nations so far, they had a 20 minute spell in the first half where they layed some decent stuff but they tailed off badly. Was Fred injured? As Brazil made 2 CM substitutions and he didn't get on.
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Yea Fred was injured.
 
Only Mexico, Spain and Portugal have really impressed so far...albeit Spain were better than the other two but Portugal showed enough for me to suggest it'll take a very good team to beat them. Mexico were just fun...a couple of reliable front players away from giving Germany a genuine spanking.

Wasn't impressed with Brazil at all. Looked like a team of individuals all wanting to do their own thing rather than play as a team. Neymar and Marcello seemed to just straight up refuse to pass the ball at times, like they were in a playground. Germany were just letting Mexico play 50 yard passes into their forwards feet without anyone challenging them...I'm not sure how this is ever not going to end badly. Serbia looked ok in patches but some of their play was actually slower than United's, which I didn't even think was possible.
 
Charles Miller said:
Well, this is a fair post. Also i'm probably not able to have a 100% unbiased opinion since i'm not neutral.

Winning the wc is not so important to me as a supporter. Its hard to win anyway. What i dont like is see Brazil playing an alien style. I'm pretty sure Tite is trying to bring back our old style. Is not easy. Will take time. Maybe in 2022 with new midfielders.

If during the wc we can play Brazilian Football i dont care if we lose. First game that i watched was Italy 3-2 Brazil in 1982. I would rather that game than to win like in 1994.
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Yeah I'd agree with that. This side is definitely trying to be a return to a fun Brazilian style rather then whatever they tried at the last world cup. Just didnt feel right and I don't think anyone was fully convinced. Still a lot to improve upon though. But yeah, definitely never feel like it's a case of failure if you dont win in the end. Playing style, doing your country proud and giving everything is the most important. If you do that and dont win, then nobody can really complain in the end, just didn't have the luck.

Overall, I'd put them up there as one of the top 5, but I really cant split a pretty large group of teams. Germany were a mess today but you'd expect them to make the logical changes to fix those holes. Spain are Spain, France have a terrific squad, Portugal get the best out of one of the best ever and that puts them up there, and so on. Plenty to be optimistic about for this world cup as there isnt going to be a big game with a clear favourite I think, unlike the 2010 World Cup final where Spain were big favourites, or the euros after, or Germany the last World cup.
 
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