England Discussion | Finish 4th

cyberman said:
Jesus get off your high horse.
There's many reasons not to like England, from your hooligan element to your over the top media over the years.
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Really dislike this mentality. What exactly has our media got to do with the England team and it's fans. Think you'll find a good majority of us despise our own media!

Support an English club that has supplied many decent players to the NT, but hate that said NT and revel in their failure. Still doesn't wash. Honestly tho, why support an English team if you hate England/England players?

But great reasons to hate England coz of our hooligans. Because all England fans are hooligans of course, that makes sense!!!
 
InspiRED said:
Really dislike this mentality. What exactly has our media got to do with the England team and it's fans. Think you'll find a good majority of us despise our own media!

Support an English club that has supplied many decent players to the NT, but hate that said NT and revel in their failure. Still doesn't wash. Honestly tho, why support an English team if you hate England/England players?

But great reasons to hate England coz of our hooligans. Because all England fans are hooligans of course, that makes sense!!!
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England, love it or leave it huh?
I didn't say all were hooligans but you do have them. Does every English fan have to be throwing chairs through shop windows for it to be vindication for disliking the country they support?
Even the self entitlement of you saying either support us or you're a parasite plays into it.
A lot of it is simply rivalry as well, you're being very precious about it
 
cyberman said:
England, love it or leave it huh?
I didn't say all were hooligans but you do have them. Does every English fan have to be throwing chairs through shop windows for it to be vindication for disliking the country they support?
Even the self entitlement of you saying either support us or you're a parasite plays into it.
A lot of it is simply rivalry as well, you're being very precious about it
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Precious about it? Good God man, it's a World bleedin' Cup! You're damn right I'm precious about it. For the first time in a long, looong time us England supporters have genuine cause for a small degree of optimism about it. And yet shysters who apparently support the same English club seem to want to drag us down and rub our noses in it. And wont be happy til we're snivelling declaring ourselves lucky to scrape past Panama etc..

Yeah I am precious about it and all you anti-English shysters can feck the feck off!! And also don't slag off Liingard if you support Man Utd, I will add as a caveat.
 
InspiRED said:
Precious about it? Good God man, it's a World bleedin' Cup! You're damn right I'm precious about it. For the first time in a long, looong time us England supporters have genuine cause for a small degree of optimism about it. And yet shysters who apparently support the same English club seem to want to drag us down and rub our noses in it. And wont be happy til we're snivelling declaring ourselves lucky to scrape past Panama etc..

Yeah I am precious about it and all you anti-English shysters can feck the feck off!! And also don't slag off Liingard if you support Man Utd, I will add as a caveat.
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Something that I have never understand is why English fans are so pessimist!? Reading forums and speaking with English friends, most of them speak as if their club and National Team are the worst.

England has a good team, with the best 9 at the World Cup (together with Lukaku, Cavani and Suarez), good attacking players such as Lingard, Sterling and Rashford.

Where you fail is in defense. Your back four is lackluster and tour GK is a disaster waiting to happen. What happened with Hart? He is ok at best, but IMO is better than Pickford.

You have every right to be optimistic. England can possibly beat any team on the WC except maybe Belgium. Most teams on competition are balanced, with the exception of Sweden, Denmark, Russia, Switzerland, Japan and Mexico.

I hope and believer Colombia will defeat England on a close and competed match, but if we go out against you, I won’t be disappointed. Losing to England isn’t something to be ashamed of, together with Spain you are favorites in this side of fixtures.
 

Thank you for your messages. are of great support and positive energy, I'll come back stronger.
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Definitely sounds like he will miss the game.
 



Seems like the Colombian FA are pretending he may play for whatever reason but in reality there's 0% chance
 
PoTMS said:
Call me arrogant but not getting to the semi finals will be hugely disappointing. I don't think it's too much to ask to beat two of Colombia, Sweden and Switzerland. We should be favourites against all three.
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Well everyone was happy to regard Slovakia as a tough game in the qualification stage so I'd say Colombia/Switzerland/Sweden are 50/50s.
 
If we somehow get to the semifinals it'll go down as a massive success and something this young squad can really push on from.


Being English, my hope for that happening diminishes every day though. Bricking it over the Colombia game already.
 
cyberman said:
Jesus get off your high horse.
Isn't this an Irish based forum as well?
Its ridiculous that you have a league full of foreign players then wonder why non England fans follow your league...its not for the love of all things tea and scones.
One does not lead to the other. There's many reasons not to like England, from your hooligan element to your over the top media over the years.
There's many reasons that doesn't automatically make you a parasite.
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I don't see anyone on their high horse here except you in this post. Don't like English media? Here's a tip.....stick to the Irish press which incidentally goes equally overboard and can be as wildly partisan and one eyed as any other countries media when it comes to sport. Living in Ireland for 15 years it also never ceased to amaze me how it was nigh on impossible to find reasoned reporting on English sporting endeavour that came without a healthy dollop of grudging resentment when England did well and large scale piss taking when they failed. Amusing at first but after a while it just comes across as petty at best and at worst outright bitterness.

The hooligan problem we all know about but this tournament is passing without an issue and hopefully it stays that way. The England fans in Russia are the same as all others...ordinary folk supporting their team and for the first time in a long time actually enjoying the football. That shoyld be acknowledged. Long may it continue and the largely historical problems of violence stay that way. I've seen more trouble at matches abriad than in the EPL of late and the last time I was at a LOI game it even kicked off.

What are some of your other "many reasons" for not liking the England football team? Your sarcastic references to cultural stereotype suggest you've got an issue beyond football.
 
Colombian Mancunian said:
Something that I have never understand is why English fans are so pessimist!?
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It's been very hard for England fans to follow a side that bar a couple of tournaments has serially underperformed for years and recently has been absolutely abject on the pitch. It's the national game of a country that is desperate to win the WC again but fans hopes have been continually raised and then dashed. People get fed up with it. Being pessimistic is also a national pastime.
 
Judas said:
If we somehow get to the semifinals it'll go down as a massive success and something this young squad can really push on from.


Being English, my hope for that happening diminishes every day though. Bricking it over the Colombia game already.
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Am exactly the same, the closer the match gets the more I can't see us getting past them, but if we do, then I think we might even better your semi-final hopes.

There's been a lot of posts saying that the England fans with the highest / most unrealistic expectations are being tongue in cheek, but I know I'm not. We've a massive opportunity to do something very special should we progress to the quarters.
 
Colombian Mancunian said:
Something that I have never understand is why English fans are so pessimist!? Reading forums and speaking with English friends, most of them speak as if their club and National Team are the worst.

England has a good team, with the best 9 at the World Cup (together with Lukaku, Cavani and Suarez), good attacking players such as Lingard, Sterling and Rashford.

Where you fail is in defense. Your back four is lackluster and tour GK is a disaster waiting to happen. What happened with Hart? He is ok at best, but IMO is better than Pickford.

You have every right to be optimistic. England can possibly beat any team on the WC except maybe Belgium. Most teams on competition are balanced, with the exception of Sweden, Denmark, Russia, Switzerland, Japan and Mexico.

I hope and believer Colombia will defeat England on a close and competed match, but if we go out against you, I won’t be disappointed. Losing to England isn’t something to be ashamed of, together with Spain you are favorites in this side of fixtures.
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Yep it's years of disappointment and stinking out tournaments with horrible football which has created this pessimism. There are reasons for optimism now though as we look a decent, if not worldbeating, modern international side with good team spirit.

Colombia was the team I feared most that we could face in the 16. Remind me of Uruguay a bit with excellent CBs in Mina and Sanchez and attack. Quintero is a different animal when he puts on a Colombia shirt. Cuadrado and Falcao have points to prove. But I do think without James, we will be more favourites after that. I would say 60/40 favourites and that is conservative.

I think it is not beyond realms of possibility that England could beat any team. But from what I've seen of France and Brazil, they look like they can go about 2 levels above what England are even capable of. Semi finals would be a great success for England and is certainly very achievable.

I wish you gentlemanly luck in the next round my friend, but of course I'll be rooting for England! :D
 
Barca84 said:
I don't see anyone on their high horse here except you in this post. Don't like English media? Here's a tip.....stick to the Irish press which incidentally goes equally overboard and can be as wildly partisan and one eyed as any other countries media when it comes to sport. Living in Ireland for 15 years it also never ceased to amaze me how it was nigh on impossible to find reasoned reporting on English sporting endeavour that came without a healthy dollop of grudging resentment when England did well and large scale piss taking when they failed. Amusing at first but after a while it just comes across as petty at best and at worst outright bitterness.

The hooligan problem we all know about but this tournament is passing without an issue and hopefully it stays that way. The England fans in Russia are the same as all others...ordinary folk supporting their team and for the first time in a long time actually enjoying the football. That shoyld be acknowledged. Long may it continue and the largely historical problems of violence stay that way. I've seen more trouble at matches abriad than in the EPL of late and the last time I was at a LOI game it even kicked off.

What are some of your other "many reasons" for not liking the England football team? Your sarcastic references to cultural stereotype suggest you've got an issue beyond football.
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Thanks for the tip but I'm just giving reasons why fans might not like seeing England doing well, not that these are my reasons.
Is it a shock that you haven't got the greatest reputation abroad? Is that breaking news for you? Congrats to the fans for not ruining a city centre this summer but it was only last year v Holland (I think) that more of their good old support were caught on camera.
This forum itself is very vocal on the state of the media throughout the season. Its a bit rich to be told to stick to the Irish media when its time to become defensive isn't it?
The refusal to criticise golden boys of England in terms of diving etc, even choosing not to even show them on highlight shows is a personal bug bear of mine but then I don't even hate the England national side, even tipping them to do well this summer.
Feck me and my high horse huh?
The FA choosing to use Utd players as examples so our players are more severely punished than others.
Going back on their deal with Utd in terms of Cantonas ban, the Rio Ferdinand debacle, hanging us out to dry with the FA /World Club cup, banning our players for pre season red cards that was never a policy beforehand, the treatment of Beckham and Ronaldo.
That's just off the top of my head.
BTW Lansdowne road happene when I was a young, impressionable lad, there's many from my generation that had that hate grow from there and, quite frankly, its completely understandable.
That's just football related! There's a lot of idiots in England that colour your public perception, Brexit does mean Brexit!
 
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99withaflake said:
Does anyone know how non-British and non-Colombian bookies see this match?
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If bookies were patriotic they would have been out of business ages ago.
 
Not derail the thread but Ireland is renowned for its short horses, so the accusations are inaccurate.
 
cyberman said:
Thanks for the tip but I'm just giving reasons why fans might not like seeing England doing well, not that these are my reasons.
Is it a shock that you haven't got the greatest reputation abroad? Is that breaking news for you? Congrats to the fans for not ruining a city centre this summer but it was only last year v Holland (I think) that more of their good old support were caught on camera.
This forum itself is very vocal on the state of the media throughout the season. Its a bit rich to be told to stick to the Irish media when its time to become defensive isn't it?
The refusal to criticise golden boys of England in terms of diving etc, even choosing not to even show them on highlight shows is a personal bug bear of mine but then I don't even hate the England national side, even tipping them to do well this summer.
Feck me and my high horse huh?
The FA choosing to use Utd players as examples so our players are more severely punished than others.
Going back on their deal with Utd in terms of Cantonas ban, the Rio Ferdinand debacle, hanging us out to dry with the FA /World Club cup, banning our players for pre season red cards that was never a policy beforehand, the treatment of Beckham and Ronaldo.
That's just off the top of my head.
BTW Lansdowne road happene when I was a young, impressionable lad, there's many from my generation that had that hate grow from there and, quite frankly, its completely understandable.
That's just football related! There's a lot of idiots in England that colour your public perception, Brexit does mean Brexit!
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OK cool. Ive just taken a trawl through your post history here. I'd suggest you stop consuming a certain kind of English media over there in Donegal if you want an accurate insight into how the vast majority of people in England view their football team. Move upmarket for a start. Why consume a media to feed a prejudice anyway?

Re Lansdowne I remember it well as I was living on Dublins northside and drinking on O' Connell Street that night. Shocking stuff and some louts kicked off in the pub I ws in but are you telling me that twenty years on this still fuels your hate of a football team? Its time you moved on if so. Far worse things have occurred between these two countries and people have shaken hands. Celebrate the similarities not the differences. If you come to OT recognise that the fella cheering alongside you and with you might just be an England fan and regular bloke like you. How do you tally that with your hatred?

This is a cracking world cup so far and it seems a shame to me to talk of "hate" of any team. Life's too short to hate pal.
 
 
Samid said:
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There seems to be varying reports regarding this. I guess that suits Colombia, to keep England guessing. Playing or not, there's almost no chance he'll be at 100%. Though his presence alone does make the task a whole lot harder for England.
 
londonredmaniac said:
I would say that 96 team really should have won it too. If Gazza's feet were two sizes bigger...I think they would have done. Agonising in every way. Deserved to beat Germany. I'd say England were really unlucky in 98 against Argentina too...but there was still some way to go after that game.

I think that was the last time I genuinely got excited watching an England side.
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2002 was last good England tournament team imo. Got out of a tough group and beat Argentina, swept a decent Denmark team who'd knocked out France 3-0 and then took the lead v Brazil in the quarters before retreating into the shells. Brazil did have a very good team though, so many all time legends in that line up.

If England had Germany's KO run they'd have made the final.

2006 and 2010 was just awful football (similar to Argentina) and less said about the ones since.
 
Barca84 said:
OK cool. Ive just taken a trawl through your post history here. I'd suggest you stop consuming a certain kind of English media over there in Donegal if you want an accurate insight into how the vast majority of people in England view their football team. Move upmarket for a start. Why consume a media to feed a prejudice anyway?

Re Lansdowne I remember it well as I was living on Dublins northside and drinking on O' Connell Street that night. Shocking stuff and some louts kicked off in the pub I ws in but are you telling me that twenty years on this still fuels your hate of a football team? Its time you moved on if so. Far worse things have occurred between these two countries and people have shaken hands. Celebrate the similarities not the differences. If you come to OT recognise that the fella cheering alongside you and with you might just be an England fan and regular bloke like you. How do you tally that with your hatred?

This is a cracking world cup so far and it seems a shame to me to talk of "hate" of any team. Life's too short to hate pal.
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Not really up market, if you really want to know The Times is the only newspaper I actively head out to buy and even I can't avoid the guff.
You can't escape it no matter what you do. This forum is very tribal in chasing confirmation bias so even if you do go out of your way to avoid certain outlets, the articles will seep into threads on here because Custis thinks " Jose style has been left behind by Europe" and you can't argue with that because he makes some very good points etc etc.
I can't stand Balague but every bitchy tweet of his gets highlighted which drives me insane.
If Balague was a nation I'd legitimately hate him now!
 
Think Hames will be on bench ready for last 20 minutes. Doubt he'll be at 100% but combination of him, Quintero and Cuadrado ripped Poland apart second half.
 
Colombian Mancunian said:
Something that I have never understand is why English fans are so pessimist!? Reading forums and speaking with English friends, most of them speak as if their club and National Team are the worst.

England has a good team, with the best 9 at the World Cup (together with Lukaku, Cavani and Suarez), good attacking players such as Lingard, Sterling and Rashford.

Where you fail is in defense. Your back four is lackluster and tour GK is a disaster waiting to happen. What happened with Hart? He is ok at best, but IMO is better than Pickford.

You have every right to be optimistic. England can possibly beat any team on the WC except maybe Belgium. Most teams on competition are balanced, with the exception of Sweden, Denmark, Russia, Switzerland, Japan and Mexico.

I hope and believer Colombia will defeat England on a close and competed match, but if we go out against you, I won’t be disappointed. Losing to England isn’t something to be ashamed of, together with Spain you are favorites in this side of fixtures.
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"Thirty years of hurt, never stopped me dreaming", 20 years on and the three lions song is updated to 50 years of hurt.

Most people stop believing, but this year we are actually playing as a competent team rather than a collection of 'world class" players.

It's the first time in 20 years I've seen England look composed in defense and capable of playing the ball out and retaining it. I actually also rate the defence as a key part of the team with Pickford excellent at long distribution.
 
AkaAkuma said:
"Thirty years of hurt, never stopped me dreaming", 20 years on and the three lions song is updated to 50 years of hurt.

Most people stop believing, but this year we are actually playing as a competent team rather than a collection of 'world class" players.

It's the first time in 20 years I've seen England look composed in defense and capable of playing the ball out and retaining it. I actually also rate the defence as a key part of the team with Pickford excellent at long distribution.
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Fun stat, only Spain have a higher pass completion rate in the tournament so far :drool:
 
AkaAkuma said:
"Thirty years of hurt, never stopped me dreaming", 20 years on and the three lions song is updated to 50 years of hurt.

Most people stop believing, but this year we are actually playing as a competent team rather than a collection of 'world class" players.

It's the first time in 20 years I've seen England look composed in defense and capable of playing the ball out and retaining it. I actually also rate the defence as a key part of the team with Pickford excellent at long distribution.
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Funnily enough it's a lack of composure at the back that I think will be England's undoing. They will have to up their game and cut out the unforced giving away of the ball if they are to progress. I don't rate any of the back 3 that highly and think all of them are good examples of modern defenders trying to be playmakers and ending up neither one of those nor a solid out and out defender.

Middle of the park Henderson has started well against moderate opposition but he needs to move the ball quicker and less often back to the defence as he has been doing. If he gets injured trouble ahead as Dier is simply not good enough.

Elsewhere England are in good shape. I think Sterling might come good sooner rather than later too.

They can beat Colombia and should beat them. A win by 2 goals or more will boost confidence massively and silence a few naysayers. Who knows after that. A poor performance in defeat and it's back to the drawing board even allowing for the fact it's a young squad.
 
Barca84 said:
Funnily enough it's a lack of composure at the back that I think will be England's undoing. They will have to up their game and cut out the unforced giving away of the ball if they are to progress. I don't rate any of the back 3 that highly and think all of them are good examples of modern defenders trying to be playmakers and ending up neither one of those nor a solid out and out defender.

Middle of the park Henderson has started well against moderate opposition but he needs to move the ball quicker and less often back to the defence as he has been doing. If he gets injured trouble ahead as Dier is simply not good enough.

Elsewhere England are in good shape. I think Sterling might come good sooner rather than later too.

They can beat Colombia and should beat them. A win by 2 goals or more will boost confidence massively and silence a few naysayers. Who knows after that. A poor performance in defeat and it's back to the drawing board even allowing for the fact it's a young squad.
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I'm watching from Japan, so the time difference doesn't help me watch it all. I saw Tunisia and the first half against Belgium.

I thought Henderson was playing above his normal level, good long passes out wide to the wing backs. I agree there may be a slip waiting in defense, but I like what they are trying to do. As for Sterling, I don't see it.

For me Pickford, stones, maguire, Henderson, dier, trippier and Delph have impressed. Lingard aside, the attacking players not so much, Rashford could be useful for his directness if we make it passed Colombia.

Kane has done much aside from being clinical, which isn't bad and not a criticism.
 
This England squad honestly has no business winning the WC. Really there's only one or two objectively excellent players, and far too many fillers. Some young up-and-comers like Rashford, but if this squad were a Premiership side, I expect they'd struggle to finish in the top four. There's a lack of players from the category of Beckham, Scholes, Gerrard, Rooney, Michael Owen before he fell apart. Only Kane really has the qualities you would expect to see on a team of world champions.

However, they could end up in the final just because there's a real chance of easy opposition along the way. If England make it past Colombia, it's the Swedes or the Swiss in the quarters and that should be doable. In the unlikely event that Denmark beat Croatia and Russia beat Spain, it's one of those two in the semis. I doubt England would make it past Spain, but Russia at home is an unpredictable factor and could conceivably beat Spain and then fluctuate back to their actual level in the semis.
 
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Dansk said:
This England squad honestly has no business winning the WC. Really there's only one or two objectively excellent players, and far too many fillers. Some young up-and-comers like Rashford, but if this squad were a Premiership side, I expect they'd struggle to finish in the top four. There's a lack of players from the category of Beckham, Scholes, Gerrard, young Michael Owen and such. Only Kane really has the qualities you would expect to see on a team of world champions.
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Same could be said about Portugal at the most recent Euro's. Truth is, with a bit of a luck, England can be genuine contenders for the title.
 
PoTMS said:
Same could be said about Portugal at the most recent Euro's. Truth is, with a bit of a luck, England can be genuine contenders for the title.
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Sure, but there's a certain difference between the Euros and the World Cup. The Euros have been won by the likes of Denmark and Greece. Of course anyone could do anything with enough luck, and Portugal was a good example of that--they finished third in a group of Hungary, Iceland and Austria, winning none of their games and advancing on the minimum possible criterion of being the third best third-placed team behind Slovakia and Ireland. Then they had Croatia, Poland and Wales as their route to the final. Nevertheless, with Ronaldo on the team, one couldn't say that they had no business winning the Euros. I maintain that this England squad has no business being world champions. It would be the biggest upset final in the modern history of the tournament. This is one of the least impressive England squads ever.
 
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What the hell is with English romanticism of the World cup as if they are some giant of international football? I'm English and I don't get it.
 
If you're English, I'm baffled you're even asking that. What English person thinks we're a giant of international football? I've never met one, and 99% on here don't think so.
 
Judas said:
If you're English, I'm baffled you're even asking that. What English person thinks we're a giant of international football? I've never met one, and 99% on here don't think so.
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There's this massive confidence among some England fans (also some massive pessimism from others). Talk of easy groups and easy routes when England are the actual easy group and route for top teams in international football. This is the first time in a while that England haven't looked average in the group stages and I know quite a few that fancy them as a dark horse for the whole thing because of it.

Then you have some of the English media (who are also fans) that go so over the top.
 
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