The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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Can an American shoot some holes in this please? I'm not going to delve into the machinations of that wombles brain, but I still don't understand something.

My assumptions/knowledge
- 50,000 people win a US Visa every year through a blind lottery. Millions apply. 50,000 recieve one.
- All other Visas that the US grants are merit-based

Is that correct? Because from the outside looking in;

- America has (aside from those 50,000) the toughest Immigration laws in the Developed world.
- The illegal immigration problem lies in the fact that people come in, then never leave as they have the ability to work for cash in hand.

I just don't understand how this is an issue. If America wants to solve it's Immigrant problem, just fine those that employ people that don't hold a Visa. Hell, if they handed out a year in prison to those that do this I'm sure people would stop going there.

Americans employ undocumented workers at a rate that no country I've worked in seems to do. (To my knowledge). I tried to work in New Zealand without a Visa. I couldn't get a job on a building site, at a bar, nowhere.

I guess my question is: Why is the issue framed an Immigrant-side problem. Surely it's 100% an employer-side issue?
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:


Can an American shoot some holes in this please? I'm not going to delve into the machinations of that wombles brain, but I still don't understand something.

My assumptions/knowledge
- 50,000 people win a US Visa every year through a blind lottery. Millions apply. 50,000 recieve one.
- All other Visas that the US grants are merit-based

Is that correct? Because from the outside looking in;

- America has (aside from those 50,000) the toughest Immigration laws in the Developed world.
- The illegal immigration problem lies in the fact that people come in, then never leave as they have the ability to work for cash in hand.

I just don't understand how this is an issue. If America wants to solve it's Immigrant problem, just fine those that employ people that don't hold a Visa. Hell, if they handed out a year in prison to those that do this I'm sure people would stop going there.

Americans employ undocumented workers at a rate that no country I've worked in seems to do. (To my knowledge). I tried to work in New Zealand without a Visa. I couldn't get a job on a building site, at a bar, nowhere.

I guess my question is: Why is the issue framed an Immigrant-side problem. Surely it's 100% an employer-side issue?
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Because it is much, much easier to blame those who don’t look like you or sound like you than it is to look in the mirror and admit that you are actually the problem.

We’ve been doing it with foreign relations, the drug war, and now this.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:


Can an American shoot some holes in this please? I'm not going to delve into the machinations of that wombles brain, but I still don't understand something.

My assumptions/knowledge
- 50,000 people win a US Visa every year through a blind lottery. Millions apply. 50,000 recieve one.
- All other Visas that the US grants are merit-based

Is that correct? Because from the outside looking in;

- America has (aside from those 50,000) the toughest Immigration laws in the Developed world.
- The illegal immigration problem lies in the fact that people come in, then never leave as they have the ability to work for cash in hand.

I just don't understand how this is an issue. If America wants to solve it's Immigrant problem, just fine those that employ people that don't hold a Visa. Hell, if they handed out a year in prison to those that do this I'm sure people would stop going there.

Americans employ undocumented workers at a rate that no country I've worked in seems to do. (To my knowledge). I tried to work in New Zealand without a Visa. I couldn't get a job on a building site, at a bar, nowhere.

I guess my question is: Why is the issue framed an Immigrant-side problem. Surely it's 100% an employer-side issue?
Click to expand...

Of course it's a employer issue. The US could easily cut down on illegal migration if they fined and charged employers instead if workers (just like the UK). The administration will never do that though because by targeting the worker and not the employer the cost of non unionised labour will be kept artificially low.

In the US system of commerce , the upper hand must always be with the employer.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:


Can an American shoot some holes in this please? I'm not going to delve into the machinations of that wombles brain, but I still don't understand something.

My assumptions/knowledge
- 50,000 people win a US Visa every year through a blind lottery. Millions apply. 50,000 recieve one.
- All other Visas that the US grants are merit-based

Is that correct? Because from the outside looking in;

- America has (aside from those 50,000) the toughest Immigration laws in the Developed world.
- The illegal immigration problem lies in the fact that people come in, then never leave as they have the ability to work for cash in hand.

I just don't understand how this is an issue. If America wants to solve it's Immigrant problem, just fine those that employ people that don't hold a Visa. Hell, if they handed out a year in prison to those that do this I'm sure people would stop going there.

Americans employ undocumented workers at a rate that no country I've worked in seems to do. (To my knowledge). I tried to work in New Zealand without a Visa. I couldn't get a job on a building site, at a bar, nowhere.

I guess my question is: Why is the issue framed an Immigrant-side problem. Surely it's 100% an employer-side issue?
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Family Migration Visa (otherwise known as Chain) if you're under 21 and unmarried you get an immediate visa from a Parent, also via a Spouse i.e marriage - even then that's not as easy to do... but it's not like once you yourself get a Visa you can bring everyone and the dog, to even sponsor your brother it could take 20 years and that's before you yourself are even able to sponsor i.e be in the country and become a LPR/Citizen

Otherwise it's on the Visa backlog for you and that could mean a minimum of 6 years though more looking around 8 providing you don't fancy getting married in that time.
 
Precaution said:
Family Migration Visa (otherwise known as Chain) if you're under 21 and unmarried you get an immediate visa from a Parent, also via a Spouse i.e marriage - even then that's not as easy to do... but it's not like once you yourself get a Visa you can bring everyone and the dog, to even sponsor your brother it could take 20 years and that's before you yourself are even able to sponsor i.e be in the country and become a LPR/Citizen

Otherwise it's on the Visa backlog for you and that could mean a minimum of 6 years though more looking around 8 providing you don't fancy getting married in that time.
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I've researched this before. It's largely a myth in terms of purported scale. 10-25 year wait times. Only available to full fledged Citizens.
 
Carolina Red said:
Because it is much, much easier to blame those who don’t look like you or sound like you than it is to look in the mirror and admit that you are actually the problem.

We’ve been doing it with foreign relations, the drug war, and now this.
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RedTiger said:
Of course it's a employer issue. The US could easily cut down on illegal migration if they fined and charged employers instead if workers (just like the UK). The administration will never do that though because by targeting the worker and not the employer the cost of non unionised labour will be kept artificially low.

In the US system of commerce , the upper hand must always be with the employer.
Click to expand...

Thanks a lot to both. Does the average American understand how stupid the whole thing is?

You literally have one of the toughest stances on Immigration in the world. Tougher than all European countries. Tougher than Canada. Tougher than Australia.

There is no problem. No Immigration problem at all. Not even the beginnings of a problem. You all discuss it as if there's a major one. Why do you all allow this to be spoken about as if it's a real thing? I don't get it.

If you all just stop paying workers illegally you'd be done. That's solvable in a morning.
 
GiddyUp said:
If the Italian PM gets any further up trumps arse he'll disappear. Will no one ever call trump out to his face on his lies?
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Apparently that's what Macron did in one of their phone calls.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Thanks a lot to both. Does the average American understand how stupid the whole thing is?

You literally have one of the toughest stances on Immigration in the world. Tougher than all European countries. Tougher than Canada. Tougher than Australia.

There is no problem. No Immigration problem at all. Not even the beginnings of a problem. You all discuss it as if there's a major one. Why do you all allow this to be spoken about as if it's a real thing? I don't get it.

If you all just stop paying workers illegally you'd be done. That's solvable in a morning.
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Just to clarify pseudo, I'm not American , the only reason I replied is because I'm an employer and the only reason I can see to target the worker instead of the employer is to keep wages low.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
If you all just stop paying workers illegally you'd be done. That's solvable in a morning.
Click to expand...

Really not quite as simple as that, alot of Restuarants employ illegal Mexicans for wages most Americans won't work at, the agriculture industry will die overnight as will most Vineyards, these all totally rely on workers who want to work for pittance, hell even Trump's West Palm beach place employs migrants at a really low rate of pay.

However there is a easier solution to fix all that, it amazes me that the US havent got a under 30 temp/tourist working visa as employed by Australia and most of the World, get to live for upto 2 years but you have to spend at least 6 months or so doing manual labor i.e picking fruit etc, solve most of your problems overnight.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
Thanks a lot to both. Does the average American understand how stupid the whole thing is?
Click to expand...
To quote Detecive Morris in The Wire... “Americans are stupid people by and large. We believe whatever we’re told.”
You literally have one of the toughest stances on Immigration in the world. Tougher than all European countries. Tougher than Canada. Tougher than Australia.
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See above.

Average Americans don’t know that we have strict immigration laws compared to other countries because they don’t know anything about other countries. Fox News or some GOP politician tells them “our laws are weak” and they buy it.
There is no problem. No Immigration problem at all. Not even the beginnings of a problem. You all discuss it as if there's a major one. Why do you all allow this to be spoken about as if it's a real thing? I don't get it.
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Again, it goes back to the basic understanding that the average American is ignorant to the grand scope of things.
If you all just stop paying workers illegally you'd be done. That's solvable in a morning.
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Yep... but that’s where the GOP politician tells the ignorant American “the immigrants are stealing our welfare” and the cycle starts anew.
 
Precaution said:
Really not quite as simple as that, alot of Restuarants employ illegal Mexicans for wages most Americans won't work at, the agriculture industry will die overnight as will most Vineyards, these all totally rely on workers who want to work for pittance, hell even Trump's West Palm beach place employs migrants at a really low rate of pay.

However there is a easier solution to fix all that, it amazes me that the US havent got a under 30 temp/tourist working visa as employed by Australia and most of the World, get to live for upto 2 years but you have to spend at least 6 months or so doing manual labor i.e picking fruit etc, solve most of your problems overnight.
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Every argument anyone ever makes always centres around people willing to allow American employers to break the law.

There's nothing illegal about me flying to America as a tourist, then asking someone for a job. The point that the law is broken is the day that I start work. I can only work if someone is willing to pay me for that work. Immigrants cannot manifest jobs, meaning they cannot break the law unassisted. The job creation is employer-side. The crime is non existent if employers obey the law.

The law & policy is so robust. It will forever bewilder me that the average American can't get across a principle so simple.
 
What’s Francis Fukuyama up to these days? ‘Cos in his defence, there’s still a chance he could at least still be ‘technically’ right about the whole “End of History” thing...
 
Mockney said:
What’s Francis Fukuyama up to these days? ‘Cos in his defence, there’s still a chance he could at least still be ‘technically’ right about the whole “End of History” thing...
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Well his last book was called The Post-Human Future...
 
2cents said:
Well his last book was called The Post-Human Future...
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Amazing. Is the gist that the bio-mechanical mutant zombie survivors of the eventual dyspotic future hellscape, will inevitably one day create a sustainable utopia of 90s era western neoliberalism?.. And has he sold the rights to Netflix yet?
 
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Mockney said:
Amazing. Is the gist that the bio-mechanical mutant zombie survivors of the eventual dyspotic future hellscape, will inevitably one day create a sustainable utopia of 90s era western neoliberalism?.. And has he sold the rights to Netflix yet?
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I don’t recall ever having read a single word written by the man, but yes, yes it is.
 
MrMarcello said:
“The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.”

“The rank and file are usually much more primitive than we imagine. Propaganda must therefore always be essentially simple and repetitious. In the long run basic results in influencing public opinion will be achieved only by the man who is able to reduce problems to the simplest terms and who has the courage to keep forever repeating them in this simplified form, despite the objections of the intellectuals.”

"There was no point in seeking to convert the intellectuals. For intellectuals would never be converted and would anyways always yield to the stronger, and this will always be ‘the man in the street.’ Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect. Truth was unimportant and entirely subordinate to tactics and psychology."

Goebbels would have enjoyed working in the current administration.
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Equally as apt in 1938 as 2018.
 
Carolina Red said:
Exactly. They’re pushing a false narrative that folks are out to prevent Christians from worshipping. That isn’t true. Christians just can’t understand the idea that their freedom to worship ends when it takes away someone else’s freedoms.
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When did all this begin? Was it in the 70s? Perhaps 80s with Reagan?

I can recall hearing nonsense from my grandmother during my teens about god being removed from this or that, and how atheists and liberals were waging war on our (her) faith, and yet everywhere I went, including school, there was often open religious talk and whatnot. It never made sense to me.
 
MrMarcello said:
When did all this begin? Was it in the 70s? Perhaps 80s with Reagan?

I can recall hearing nonsense from my grandmother during my teens about god being removed from this or that, and how atheists and liberals were waging war on our (her) faith, and yet everywhere I went, including school, there was often open religious talk and whatnot. It never made sense to me.
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I’d say the 80s really ramped it up, but it is a holdover from the Cold War “godless communists” propaganda.
 




He's so desperate to be recognised by the elites.And he admitted the tax cuts were for the rich
 


It was his administration that won the case to allow the blueprint to be downloaded.And why consult the NRA?
 
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