The Trump Presidency | Biden Inaugurated

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Wednesday at Stoke said:
It didn't. Never did and healthcare is not gravy, its been a basic human right in every developed country.
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We'll have go through whole history of US healthcare system to debate this. I have already spent too much time on here celebrating my promotion to the main forum (:)), but we'll definitely get back to this.

In principle, I agree with you that the time has come for it to become a basic human right in the US like it is in the rest of the developed world. Universal health care is needed and the US cannot ignore it any longer.
 
All this "things will go back to normal once he's gone" stuff completely overlooks the people whose lives are being ruined in the meantime. Not to mention the likely centuries worth of damage being done to the environment.

Also the "things are still the same when I walk of my door" line is so horribly ignorant of what others are having to put up with it makes me cringe.

The same 'I'm alright Jack' shit was a theme in the Brexit thread, and is a big reason why things never change.
 
Raoul said:
The numbers are ultimately a bit subjective as people are going to feel more comfortable in a particular culture than others. I've lived on both continents and wouldn't consider moving to any of the other countries that rank higher in Stem scores or quality of life.
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Oh I've loved my time living in the states, but I mean at an overall level. Nothing saddens me more than the US just going further and backwards, instead of achieving what it could.
 
Beachryan said:
Just because it drives me bonkers, claiming the US has great education because it has the top Universities is like claiming you're the best driver in the world because you drive a nice car.

From the OECD, the US are ranked:
Reading- 14
Maths- 25
Science- 17

Things the US rank first in:
Prisoners per capita
Gun deaths per capita
Military spending per capita
Biggest capital markets

Basically the US is great to invest in, bad to live in relative to other major western democracies
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The US is great to live in, if you've got a well paying job and good health insurance.
 
@ErranMorad is right that there are certainly exaggerated statements about the US. It’s really not as bad here as you’d see in social media and the like. And this is coming from someone who lives in the country’s unofficial home of crazy in the form of Florida. But I don’t take the same position about our exceptionalism, at least not in such an optimistic way. Good place to get money, but I wouldn’t raise a family here.
 
Rado_N said:
All this "things will go back to normal once he's gone" stuff completely overlooks the people whose lives are being ruined in the meantime. Not to mention the likely centuries worth of damage being done to the environment.

Also the "things are still the same when I walk of my door" line is so horribly ignorant of what others are having to put up with it makes me cringe.

The same 'I'm alright Jack' shit was a theme in the Brexit thread, and is a big reason why things never change.
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I don't buy the things going back to normal stuff either. For good or bad, what happens now sets a legal precedent for actions in the future and if we are to go by history, once a population loses its conscientiousness and slips into corruption and lack of ethical standards, it usually doesn't come back to better ways.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
I don't buy the things going back to normal stuff either. For good or bad, what happens now sets a legal precedent for actions in the future and if we are to go by history, once a population loses its conscientiousness and slips into corruption and lack of ethical standards, it usually doesn't come back to better ways.
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Agree completely. "Normal" has been redefined. We're in a post truth political environment.
 
Rado_N said:
All this "things will go back to normal once he's gone" stuff completely overlooks the people whose lives are being ruined in the meantime. Not to mention the likely centuries worth of damage being done to the environment.

Also the "things are still the same when I walk of my door" line is so horribly ignorant of what others are having to put up with it makes me cringe.

The same 'I'm alright Jack' shit was a theme in the Brexit thread, and is a big reason why things never change.
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I don't know about that. The US is still in the Paris deal until Trump leaves office and could easily remain in it if he's voted out (or before if he's impeached).

A lot of the drama you see on social media is creating a perceptual illusion that there has been a tangible change in the real world when its largely just a daily amplification of anxiety on social media. People are being affected by network homophily which is creating a bit of a sky is falling affect in how they perceive the real world.
 
ErranMorad said:
We'll have go through whole history of US healthcare system to debate this. I have already spent too much time on here celebrating my promotion to the main forum (:)), but we'll definitely get back to this.

In principle, I agree with you that the time has come for it to become a basic human right in the US like it is in the rest of the developed world. Universal health care is needed and the US cannot ignore it any longer.
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Regardless of our initial disagreements you do seem to be one of the better promotions. What percentage of your fellow Americans would you estimate are aware of the types and standards of healthcare, etc outside of the country?

Raoul said:
A lot of the drama you see on social media is creating a perceptual illusion that there has been a tangible change in the real world when its largely just a daily amplification of anxiety on social media.
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You've alluded to this before but speaking for myself I rarely use social media. I'm basing my opinion on talking to Americans like yourself, reading articles and watching the news...
 
Rado_N said:
All this "things will go back to normal once he's gone" stuff completely overlooks the people whose lives are being ruined in the meantime. Not to mention the likely centuries worth of damage being done to the environment.

Also the "things are still the same when I walk of my door" line is so horribly ignorant of what others are having to put up with it makes me cringe.

The same 'I'm alright Jack' shit was a theme in the Brexit thread, and is a big reason why things never change.
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Too much credit is given to Trump. We still have a whole GOP full of mosquitos, hundreds maybe thousands of right wing propaganda channels, a pharma, defense, and insurance industry that has our reps by the balls, a horrible treatment and attitude toward real Native Americans (latinos) who want to come here to work the labor jobs that we need, a monetized higher educstion system, a public education system that are stuck in old ways, and a higher ratio of the population being obese and/or unhealthy in ways that weren’t common before. Being silo’d in a nice neighborhood doesn’t change these issues from existing.
 
Raoul said:
I don't know about that. The US is still in the Paris deal until Trump leaves office and could easily remain in it if he's voted out (or before if he's impeached).

A lot of the drama you see on social media is creating a perceptual illusion that there has been a tangible change in the real world when its largely just a daily amplification of anxiety on social media. People are being affected by network homophily which is creating a bit of a sky is falling affect in how they perceive the real world.
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Unless you also add in the number of extremely conservative judges that Trump is nominating across the US, and his potential ability to appoint a couple more SCOTUS judges before his term ends which could change the direction of the US for a generation.
 
Raoul said:
I don't know about that. The US is still in the Paris deal until Trump leaves office and could easily remain in it if he's voted out (or before if he's impeached).

A lot of the drama you see on social media is creating a perceptual illusion that there has been a tangible change in the real world when its largely just a daily amplification of anxiety on social media. People are being affected by network homophily which is creating a bit of a sky is falling affect in how they perceive the real world.
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https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/03/how-trump-is-changing-science-environment/

Yea, just social media group think echo chamber stuff like National Geographic.
 
Kentonio said:
Unless you also add in the number of extremely conservative judges that Trump is nominating across the US, and his potential ability to appoint a couple more SCOTUS judges before his term ends which could change the direction of the US for a generation.
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That's true, but they wouldn't be specific to Trump as you would get similar judicial appointments with any Republican.
 
Florida Man said:
Too much credit is given to Trump. We still have a whole GOP full of mosquitos, hundreds maybe thousands of right wing propaganda channels, a pharma, defense, and insurance industry that has our reps by the balls, a horrible treatment and attitude toward real Native Americans (latinos) who want to come here to work the labor jobs that we need, a monetized higher educstion system, a public education system that are stuck in old ways, and a higher ratio of the population being obese and/or unhealthy in ways that weren’t common before. Being silo’d in a nice neighborhood doesn’t change these issues from existing.
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Yea that's all also true. I'd add in a monetised prison system, which is so fecked up it's beyond comprehension.

Kentonio said:
Unless you also add in the number of extremely conservative judges that Trump is nominating across the US, and his potential ability to appoint a couple more SCOTUS judges before his term ends which could change the direction of the US for a generation.
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Yea, but everything will go back to normal when he's gone. Because reasons.
 
ErranMorad said:
Obamacare or the ACA was a good start in the right direction.
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It really wasn't, and that's the US all over. The ACA was a Heritage Foundation plan, that was basically a massive handout to the big insurance companies. It's not universal healthcare or anything like it, its an extension of the broken system you already have. Sure it had positives like getting rid of the restrictions on preconditions, but it was still a crappy peice of legislation. The only way I can see it as being a step towards universal healthcare is if it convinced the public that some of its provisions are so important they never want to be without them again. Even then to get a good system you'd need to rid up Obamacare root and branch and start afresh, which would inevitably lead to lots of Democrats crying foul because of it being perceived as 'attacking Obama's legacy'.
 
Raoul said:
I don't know about that. The US is still in the Paris deal until Trump leaves office and could easily remain in it if he's voted out (or before if he's impeached).

A lot of the drama you see on social media is creating a perceptual illusion that there has been a tangible change in the real world when its largely just a daily amplification of anxiety on social media. People are being affected by network homophily which is creating a bit of a sky is falling affect in how they perceive the real world.
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There were already gross ethical violations such as state legislators who owned interests in predatory lending corporations introducing state laws to allow them to operate more freely and entrap vulnerable people.

Now you have a president and a cabinet who have more red flags than you can count on two hands enriching themselves under statesman privileges. You can ignore the drama but the ethical fabric that has long been safeguarded has eroded to a new low now and it won't be recovering again.

This is before we even get into the power of lobbyists making written corrections on a tax bill that was voted in by congress and senate, the separation of church and state is as flimsy as it has been and so on and so forth.
 
Raoul said:
These are just as easily reversed after he's out of office.
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Which again ignores the damage done in the meantime, and assumes the environmental impact actually can be reversed.

He's undoing protection for endangered species, once they're gone there's no reversing that.
 
Kentonio said:
It really wasn't, and that's the US all over. The ACA was a Heritage Foundation plan, that was basically a massive handout to the big insurance companies. It's not universal healthcare or anything like it, its an extension of the broken system you already have. Sure it had positives like getting rid of the restrictions on preconditions, but it was still a crappy peice of legislation. The only way I can see it as being a step towards universal healthcare is if it convinced the public that some of its provisions are so important they never want to be without them again. Even then to get a good system you'd need to rid up Obamacare root and branch and start afresh, which would inevitably lead to lots of Democrats crying foul because of it being perceived as 'attacking Obama's legacy'.
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The ACA was a severely watered down iteration of what Obama was originally interested in pursuing. He quickly realized that he wouldn't have support for something more ambitious and was forced to accept something much narrower, but that covered more people. The high premiums are a result of not having made the individual mandate penalty high enough...otherwise it would be a much more effective way to go.
 
Dan said:
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Two days before then:



Former CIA directors John Brennan and Michael Hayden, former FBI director James Comey and his deputy Andrew McCabe, former director of the National Intelligence James Clapper, ex-adviser on Homeland Susan Rice say goodbye to access to classified materials. Welcome to the real world!
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More info:



And Trump apparently told the Wall Street Journal that access was revoked due to the Russian Investigation.
 
Rado_N said:
Which again ignores the damage done in the meantime, and assumes the environmental impact actually can be reversed.

He's undoing protection for endangered species, once they're gone there's no reversing that.
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Somehow I doubt it will be fatal. Just as in the past under the likes of Reagan and others, the policies will be reversed once a Dem gets elected.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
There were already gross ethical violations such as state legislators who owned interests in predatory lending corporations introducing state laws to allow them to operate more freely and entrap vulnerable people.

Now you have a president and a cabinet who have more red flags than you can count on two hands enriching themselves under statesman privileges. You can ignore the drama but the ethical fabric that has long been safeguarded has eroded to a new low now and it won't be recovering again.

This is before we even get into the power of lobbyists making written corrections on a tax bill that was voted in by congress and senate, the separation of church and state is as flimsy as it has been and so on and so forth.
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I agree that Trump is corrupt, but the system was already awash with money, lobbying, and general corporatism well before he showed up.
 
ErranMorad said:
I am here to learn from you.

Let me read a few posts of yours and I'll also be making snide remarks without saying much like a boss.
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Also the latest "full member" with tiny posting numbers to pop in to this thread lately. Fully expect to disappear just as quickly.

Must be pretty easy to become a full member these days. There's been about one I think can think of that had such a low post count but contributed well.
 
Raoul said:
Somehow I doubt it will be fatal. Just as in the past under the likes of Reagan and others, the policies will be reversed once a Dem gets elected.
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You're basically sticking your fingers in your ears and repeating "everything will be fine".
 
Rado_N said:
You're basically sticking your fingers in your ears and repeating "everything will be fine".
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I just don't buy into the sky is falling narrative. Yes, Trump is doing damage but not in a way that can't be regenerated after he leaves.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Also the latest "full member" with tiny posting numbers to pop in to this thread lately. Fully expect to disappear just as quickly.

Must be pretty easy to become a full member these days. There's been about one I think can think of that had such a low post count but contributed well.
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I don’t think he’s being unreasonable to be fair to him. He’s made good points though I don’t wholly agree with everything he said.
 
Florida Man said:
I don’t think he’s being unreasonable to be fair to him. He’s made good points though I don’t wholly agree with everything he said.
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Once he started putting effort into his posts they weren't bad. Wasn't a good start tho :lol:
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Also the latest "full member" with tiny posting numbers to pop in to this thread lately. Fully expect to disappear just as quickly.

Must be pretty easy to become a full member these days. There's been about one I think can think of that had such a low post count but contributed well.
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Not sure what post count has to do with the logic of his argument.
 
Florida Man said:
I don’t think he’s being unreasonable to be fair to him. He’s made good points though I don’t wholly agree with everything he said.
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afrocentricity said:
Once he started putting effort into his posts they weren't bad. Wasn't a good start tho :lol:
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Fair enough. Not a great start indeed though. This is probably one of the most well-informed threads on the whole site.
 
unchanged_lineup said:
Maybe it's just my impression that there's been a few new promotions who've popped in here with total guff lately. It seems this person expanded well on their initial weak beginning.
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It's the whole forum mate. Dunno who's in charge of promotions lately....
 
ErranMorad said:
"It's a disgusting country in so many ways. Remove California and it's also a pretty toothless one in terms of its level of importance to the world."

It's a disgusting country in so many ways. Remove New York and it's also a pretty toothless one in terms of its level of importance to the world.

"It's a disgusting country in so many ways. Remove London and it's also a pretty toothless one in terms of its level of importance to the world."

It's a disgusting country in so many ways. Remove Paris and it's also a pretty toothless one in terms of its level of importance to the world.

"It's a disgusting country in so many ways. Remove Shanghai and it's also a pretty toothless one in terms of its level of importance to the world."

"It's a disgusting country in so many ways. Remove Dubai and it's also a pretty toothless one in terms of its level of importance to the world."

"It's a disgusting country in so many ways. Remove Berlin and it's also a pretty toothless one in terms of its level of importance to the world."

It's a disgusting country in so many ways. Remove Tokyo and it's also a pretty toothless one in terms of its level of importance to the world."

It's a disgusting country in so many ways. Remove Toronto and it's also a pretty toothless one in terms of its level of importance to the world."

I could go on...
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You're Daft if you think that London defines England.

Or that Paris defines France.

And so on.

America without California is an absolute car crash of a country. Not just economically but along all other lines.

You currently have the worlds 6 largest economy in-house. Stemming the tide of racism and small town / small world attitude. Remove that and America is an absolute horror show.
 
Raoul said:
Somehow I doubt it will be fatal. Just as in the past under the likes of Reagan and others, the policies will be reversed once a Dem gets elected.
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It wont be fatal to you. It wont be fatal to people on wall street. It wont be fatal to car dealership owners. It wont be fatal to suburban housewives. It wont be fatal to the Brookings institute.

It will be fatal to so many people that had no choice in the matter, whose lives were ruined by the rich who smashed up creatures and things and retreated into lives of wealth and carelessness.
 
UnrelatedPsuedo said:
You're Daft if you think that London defines England.

Or that Paris defines France.

And so on.

America without California is an absolute car crash of a country. Not just economically but along all other lines.

You currently have the worlds 6 largest economy in-house. Stemming the tide of racism and small town / small world attitude. Remove that and America is an absolute horror show.
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California has plenty of racists and small towns and small town attitudes.
 
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