Which, as lamentable as it is, has absolutely feck all to do with whether her complaints of anti-semitism in the party are legitimate or not.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Which, as lamentable as it is, has absolutely feck all to do with whether her complaints of anti-semitism in the party are legitimate or not.
So she moved to appease Labour's traditional base that contains a lots of xenophobia and racism. Sounds like someone else we know!
Well it's not none my business so............
But really I would say it's rather important on how someone views the I.R.A/Struggle for Independence and how they view Corbyn links to it.
One man terrorist is another man freedom fighter etc
I wasn't talking about her criticism of anti semitism but more your odd point about how people used to care about fighting racism.
Hey come on Tony been out of office for years.
I did chuckle at her accusing it of being a purge against people for who they support/don't support for leader after her complete and utter silence when the same was happening in droves at the last leadership election. Can't think why she'd have been in favour of that...
Careful where you're doing that, it's a very fine line between supporting Palestine and being antisemitic apparently.
I know, they used to have to express their love of the band Foo Fighters or retweet Caroline Lucas to get that treatment. Now scream swearing in a colleague's face is good enough to just be threatened with it and it not happen.
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Well it's not none my business so............
But really I would say it's rather important on how someone views the I.R.A/Struggle for Independence and how they view Corbyn links to it.
One man terrorist is another man freedom fighter etc
It is none of your business. Anyway - as I said I'm not a unionist and if a border poll was called tomorrow I would have to think long and hard about which way to vote as to be honest I'm not sure which way I would go. I know people who have been affected horrifically by violence on both sides - IRA/INLA/UDA/UVF, etc. and I hate every last one of those groups. I can and do openly condemn the IRA and any other group you care to mention who caused suffering in this country. Why can't Jeremy?
Why didn't you say the IDF and Israelis when you did split Hamas and Palestinians?
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I'm not sure how many people would keep their jobs if they swore at their boss
Perhaps not many, but if we're talking hypothetical work place scenario I'd rather think people would initially express sympathy with this hypothetical person and question whether the hypothetical company were institutionally racist if all things were equal.
I'm about to test this out by swearing at my boss for not implementing IHRA at all, let alone the examples. Wish me luck!
I image like many on the left he believes in a United Ireland. But again this is completely different to actual calling on violence which is something Corbyn has never done(Now proceeds millions links to million comments made by Corbyn). I mean do you think it was wrong that Corbyn protested to stop apartheid considering that the Armed wing of ANC was planting bombs and killing people ?
We can debate wither this is right or wrong I guess(I'd rather not because Corbyn right) but to do this grand moralising as you have is just odd.
He refuses to condemn the violence of one side - that is not just supporting a united ireland (which i have no problem with), neither is it me 'grand moralising' as you so patronisingly put it.
Do you not think he could have been more open about it in the last few days or at least try to control the narrative? Saying words to the effect that he has always supported the cause of the Palestinians/NI Republicans and that has entailed meeting people whose methods he does not endorse. In the context of the wreath affair (which I fully recognise is driven by the right wing media), he has come across as evasive and shifty, almost trying to disassociate himself from his years as a fringe rebel. For a politician for whom authenticity is his main selling point, it’s not a good look. And there will be plenty more of this stuff to deal with up to the next general election.
The Labour manifesto last year promised to carry out Brexit. Yes it disagreed with the Tory proposals and wanted a change of priorities but the direction of travel was Brexit nonetheless. So unless you're saying Corbyn disagreed with his own manifesto then he is a Brexiter.
I was arguing against the notion that he was a hardcore brexiteer before the ref, and that he's given the government a free pass.
Yeah I would completely agree with this. He's handling of these types of situation hasn't been great at all and I think it's due to this wishy washing respond of - well I don't think I was attending the ceremony stuff etc , which as you said is almost him trying to disassociate himself. The part Corbyn looked the best during the wreath stuff was him taking the pro active step and pointing out the Palestinian deaths that have happened after the criticism from Netanyahu.
Trying to avoiding this types of conversations while understandable won't help him.
Ah right, I agree he's not given the government a free pass as such, but he's still committed to Brexit, just a different sort of Brexit. What he actually believes himself is hard to say, he's from the wing of the party that in 70s and 80s were hardcore brexiteers, but he may not have felt that strongly himself, or he may have changed his mind. Who knows, but a little over a year since the last election I assume his manifesto position still stands.
Why wouldn’t Corbyn be pro-brexit? I thought it was well known that he’s always been anti-Europe
His handling of the media has not been good at all and his media team are constantly fighting fires. His message is muddled and unclear, he keeps getting caught in these kind of awkward situations due to his links to various groups and really as a result he is not capable or not being allowed to do a good job as opposition leader. Whether all this is his fault, the media's fault or his team's fault I don't know but if things do not change dramatically he is a total non-entity as far as holding the government to account is concerned at a time when we need it most.
He campaigned for and voted Remain.
I wonder if he had two speeches prepared, like Boris?
- Jeremy Corbyn voted for Britain to leave the European Economic Community (EEC) in the 1975 European referendum.
- Jeremy Corbyn opposed the creation of the European Union (EU) under the Maastricht Treaty – speaking and voting against it in Parliament in 1993. During the 2016 referendum campaign, Left Leave highlighted repeated speeches he made in Parliament opposing Europe during 1993.
- Jeremy Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty on more than one occasion in Parliament in 2008.
- In 2010, Jeremy Corbyn voted against the creation of the European Union’s diplomatic service.
- Jeremy Corbyn voted for a referendum on Britain’s membership of the EU in 2011 (breaking the Labour whip to do so).
- In 2011 Jeremy Corbyn also opposed the creation of the EU’s European Stability Mechanism, which helps members of the Euro in financial difficulties. (This vote is a good example of how Corbyn votes with hardcore Euro-sceptics. Only 26 other MPs joined him in voting against, and in their number are the likes of right-wing Euro-sceptics such as Peter Bone, Douglas Carswell, Bill Cash, Ian Paisley Junior and John Redwood.)
- Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain’s participation in the EU’s Banking Authority in 2012.
- In 2016 his long-time left-wing ally Tariq Ali said that he was sure that if Corbyn was not Labour leader he would be campaigning for Britain to leave the EU, whilst his brother Piers Corbyn also said that Jeremy Corbyn was privately opposed to Britain’s membership of the European Union.
- Jeremy Corbyn went on holiday during the 2016 referendum campaign and his office staff consistently undermined the Remain campaign. He refused to attend a key Remain campaign launch and also attacked government ministers for publicising the Remain case, saying they should also have promoted arguments in favour of Leave vote. The Director of the Remain campaign, himself a Labour member and candidate, said, “Rather than making a clear and passionate Labour case for EU membership, Corbyn took a week’s holiday in the middle of the campaign and removed pro-EU lines from his speeches”. During the referendum campaign, Leave.EU highlighted Corbyn’s attacks on Europe made in 1996.
- The day after the European referendum in 2016, Jeremy Corbyn called for the immediate invocation of Article 50 – the two-year notice to leave the EU – much quicker than even Theresa May wanted.
- In December 2016, Jeremy Corbyn voted in Parliament in favour of the UK leaving the EU and for the process to start no later than 31 March 2017.
- Jeremy Corbyn three times voted in February 2017 in favour of the Prime Minister starting the process of leaving the European Union.
- During the 2017 general election, the independent Channel 4 Factcheck service found very little difference between Jeremy Corbyn and Theresa May over Europe.
- In the summer of 2017, Jeremy Corbyn opposed Britain remaining in the Single Market. He even sacked from his team Labour MPs who voted in favour of membership of the Single Market.
...passionate remainer.
Showing support and solidarity with terrorist organisations is a true sign of a man of peace.
Yeah but brexit is Tony Blair's fault or summat and oooooooh Jeremy Corbyn oooooooh Jeremy Corbyn (fade to electoral defeat)
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Yet he has a record as long as your arm for voting against joining EU and pretty much everything since.
His campaign to remain was pathetic. a token joke because he thought that’s what labour voters wanted. He’s a car-crash of a leader
Well us why he's still the party leader and why Labour are top of the polls ? Also who do you think should replace this car crash of leader ?
The Labour Left has it's problems with it's dodgy links, in fighting etc but I'd take that over some dip shit liberals who think memorising a couple of Guardian opinion pieces equals political ideology.
Some things never change
They’re top of the polls because.. the Tories.
Unfortunately I don’t see any strong leaders anywhere in both main parties. Brexit has exposed many of them for being morons.
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How much more of an open goal does this government need to provide in order for Corbyn to be where he should be? It's incompetence on an industrial scale for any opposition vs this shambles not to be on course for an absolute stonking landslide. As it is poll leads that are within the statistical margin of error are actually being used to evidence how well things are going for him.
Labour should be 15-20 points ahead and would be under I think any of their 5 previous leaders.
Labour should be 15-20 points ahead and would be under I think any of their 5 previous leaders.
Should be some great conversations in a few years time. 'Dad, why did you vote for a political party with Brexit in it's manifesto and a Brexiter for leader?'. 'Because we understood the ideology son, that what mattered'.
"the world was burning and the lib dems were busy trying to form new parties and lecturing on homosexual sins, now shut up and eat aunt Margaret"
Labour remain was run by a bunch of Blairites who didn't think Corbyn was an asset. They only called for him at the end in a panic when they had bollocked up the entire campaign
Yeah, let's not blame the voters who voted for Brexit parties, let's blame those who voted for the one that was against. This ideology's hilarious ain't it?
I think it's Private Eye
Corbyn's attitudes to Europe seem fairly mixed - on the one hand I think he sees it as a fairly neoliberal organisation that undermines any nation states willingness to move towards socialism by supporting corporatism etc, but on the other hand I think he recognises that it has certain benefits which can protect workers against overtly right-wing governments who seek to undermine them, and that however much he may dislike the EU, leaving isn't really in our benefit at the moment.
I suspect his general attitude towards the EU has probably eased over the years - at the start the lefts opposition was much stronger to it, however as time have passed they've generally seen it as a lesser evil compared to various Tory governments who've been in power. A mixed attitude towards the EU isn't necessarily an awful thing - it's a huge organisation and so anyone who's got a unanimously positive or negative attitude in how they view it, unable to see its flaws or virtues at all, is probably blighted at best.
Nevertheless, his own attempts to argue against a hard Brexit have been somewhere between non-existent and meek, probably more down to pragmatism than anything else. Whether it's better for him to be a staunch left-wing Brexiteer or a pragmatist seceding to anti-immigrant sentiment for his own possible self-gain in the future depends on how you view him in general though. Neither option paints him in a great light.
I suspect his general attitude towards the EU has probably eased over the years - at the start the lefts opposition was much stronger to it, however as time have passed they've generally seen it as a lesser evil compared to various Tory governments who've been in power. A mixed attitude towards the EU isn't necessarily an awful thing - it's a huge organisation and so anyone who's got a unanimously positive or negative attitude in how they view it, unable to see its flaws or virtues at all, is probably blighted at best.
Nevertheless, his own attempts to argue against a hard Brexit have been somewhere between non-existent and meek, probably more down to pragmatism than anything else. Whether it's better for him to be a staunch left-wing Brexiteer or a pragmatist seceding to anti-immigrant sentiment for his own possible self-gain in the future depends on how you view him in general though. Neither option paints him in a great light.
I really wish this what what Corbyn actually did, since I believe that the key to moving that conflict towards a peaceful resolution is the promotion of mutual understanding and recognition of the conflicting narratives adhered to by each side.
That's not what Corbyn and the section of the left he's been involved with his entire career does though. Instead, they offer solidarity and legitimacy to all expressions of the Palestinian narrative, while completely denying and rejecting the Zionist narrative. So their 'criticism' of Israel goes beyond any specific Israeli policies or actions and portrays Zionism as inherently racist, colonialist, etc., basically illegitimate and beyond-the-pale (which is why Nazi analogies, which no serious person could consider legitimate, come so easily to them).
This refusal to consider the range of historical and contemporary factors which have made and continue to make Zionism appeal to so many Jews ultimately produces car crash interpretations of the 'Zionist endeavour' such as this; and it immediately signals to the vast majority of Jews in Israel (not to mention elsewhere) that there is no space for their narrative in your idea of a 'peaceful' Palestine, and that the key to achieving that peace is their defeat.
And, unless Corbyn is pulling them aside to tell them that empathy, negotiations, and non-violence are the way forward (does anybody actually believe this to be the case?), it encourages his Palestinian interlocutors in the belief that 'victory' (i.e. the defeat of Zionism) and not compromise is the only just path to peace.
Now you could argue that what Corbyn is doing is providing a counter-balance to a mainstream discourse in which it is the Palestinian narrative that is under-represented. But assuming this is true, it's (a) not what he claims to be doing, and (b) unclear how this helps the path to a negotiated peace, since it completely alienates one of the parties to the conflict.
Ultimately, despite all his platitudes, the brand of anti-Zionism which Corbyn and his associates adhere to is a hindrance to the pursuit of real peace over there. If he was honest, he'd just admit that it's a Palestinian victory he's interested in.
Can't imagine where they got that idea from
Corbyn was leader of the Labour party. Not some guy from accounts. And he went on fecking holiday during the campaign. This is the ultimate contradiction with Corbyn. He's supposedly both the leader of a major political party and also just some bloke about whom we shouldn't pay much attention to what he says, what he does, who he associates with or anything else. His supporters want him to be leader but not be treated like a leader. Questioning him on anything is a "smear", paying attention to what he says is a "smear", asking why he's doing things a leader of the opposition should be doing is a "smear". Calling that cult-like behaviour cult-like is a "smear". It's ridiculous.