Yeah, I really hope some posters on here don’t represent the majority of voters in the UK. If the UK go from a disastrous Brexit (looking more likely with each passing day) to this man as the next PM, I think the UK will be in serious trouble.
Jeremy Corbyn - Not Not Labour Party(?), not a Communist (BBC)
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
We're not supposed to notice Brexit is disastrous because otherwise it might draw attention to the fact Corbyn is out of step with the vast majority of the membership and support on this issue. Even suggestions Momentum might get behind the idea of supporting a second referendum. Funny thing then, or course, will be how quickly Momentum go from being Corbyn's cheerleaders to being accused of being neoliberal, Blairite scum by the real hardcore fanatics.
"We will leave the EU, SM and CU and retain the benefits" is apparently effectively opposing a govt policy of leaving the EU, SM and CU and retaining the benefits. The impressive thing is the amount of noise generated by those whose credibility relies on you believing the above are two completely different policies. It's difficult, which is why Brexit is the last thing his supporters want to talk about.
I'm a bit confused what you're upset with here? Some people having a different opinion to yourself and having the temerity to share said opinion on social media? I haven't watched The Last Leg for a long time because I'd rather swan dive off the high platform into an Olympic pool filled with Jurgen Klopp's old teeth than listen to Josh Widdecombe struggle to mumble his basic bitch jokes out of his stuffy nose so I can't comment on the content of the outrage but you seem to be exasperated that a section of a political party you are no longer a member of get behind and support the leader of the party they vote for.
But what are we allowed to notice and discuss? The things he's said, the company he has kept or the policy positions he holds are completely off the table. So no IRA or Hamas links, no noticing how relaxed he is with sharing platforms with antisemitism and no observing he's aligned with the Tory hard right on the fundamentals of the EU debate. Even how he performs as leader is a no-go. People who want the party to oppose the Tories more effectively are "Tories"
We have the country about to be driven over the edge of a cliff by the government and an opposition leader about whom we're not allowed to observe anything except for how well attended his rallies are.
We have the country about to be driven over the edge of a cliff by the government and an opposition leader about whom we're not allowed to observe anything except for how well attended his rallies are.
Yeah but Blair and Iraq.... Oooooooh Jeremy Corbyn.... Oooooooh Jeremy Corbyn etc
The echo chamber is going to be full of butt hurt when he gashes up the next election
They'll point to some materially irrelevant statistic such as "He secured the highest first-time vote share of everyone under the age of 26 of any leader ever" and once again find cause to chink glasses in celebration as a Tory waltzes into No 10, much like they did last time.
Sweet seeing Oscie and Sun-Tzu together in their echo chamber... They know EVERYTHING!
That'd be shit even for a Daily Mail comment section response. Also 'echo chamber' joins 'neoliberalism' on the list of things Corbyn supporters say without knowing what it means.
Two people agreeing isn't an 'echo chamber'.
Well thank God we’ve the likes of you to constantly educate us. Nothing beats being told what I supposedly think by you.
I'm not telling you what you think, I'm telling you that you're wrong. There's a difference.
Really? Corbyn’s criticisms of the government’s Brexit negotiations have been limited at best. I don’t think I’ve ever seen him in the news criticising the government’s lack of progress towards a deal.
He’s just not interested in the mechanics of the process, despite the government sleep walking towards a catastrophic no-deal outcome. If you think his referendum campaign was acceptable (I don’t), then this should have been crystallised by his stupid ‘trigger article 50 now’ comment.
He's just a populist, that's all he is. Populism suffers from the same issue left or right, offering simple solutions for often complex problems.
It pains me so many on the left can't see the issues with him. He's a man stuck in the 70's, yeah some of the stuff he says sounds good. Rebalancing the economy? Yeah, great. How's he going to do that though? Well he talks about bringing those low wage jobs back to Britain so either those low wage workers need to get used to be paid £3 an hour or he's not going to be able to achieve it. And let's not forget this is a man who called for the enacting of Article 50 pretty much quicker than anyone in politics - the day after the referendum. Brexit is far more damaging to everyone is this country than pretty much anything else he advocates, yet he's happy to go along with it so his wet dreams can possibly be achieved (which they never will - the direction of post Brexit Britain is in the hands of the Tories). He's a man who hasn't really changed his opinions on absolutely anything since the 70's, some admire him as principled, I see a man who just quite frankly doesn't seem very intelligent and who the world left behind years ago. He's basically just offering the left wing version of Trump, more polite and less abrasive sure, but promising to his support a world that cannot be achieved.
Whilst on his support, the Trump supporters of the left. It's startling how similar they are. Conspiracies over the media, the cult of personality, any criticism is made up by someone from the other side, justification for anything and everything.
It pains me so many on the left can't see the issues with him. He's a man stuck in the 70's, yeah some of the stuff he says sounds good. Rebalancing the economy? Yeah, great. How's he going to do that though? Well he talks about bringing those low wage jobs back to Britain so either those low wage workers need to get used to be paid £3 an hour or he's not going to be able to achieve it. And let's not forget this is a man who called for the enacting of Article 50 pretty much quicker than anyone in politics - the day after the referendum. Brexit is far more damaging to everyone is this country than pretty much anything else he advocates, yet he's happy to go along with it so his wet dreams can possibly be achieved (which they never will - the direction of post Brexit Britain is in the hands of the Tories). He's a man who hasn't really changed his opinions on absolutely anything since the 70's, some admire him as principled, I see a man who just quite frankly doesn't seem very intelligent and who the world left behind years ago. He's basically just offering the left wing version of Trump, more polite and less abrasive sure, but promising to his support a world that cannot be achieved.
Whilst on his support, the Trump supporters of the left. It's startling how similar they are. Conspiracies over the media, the cult of personality, any criticism is made up by someone from the other side, justification for anything and everything.
Not to be rude but just read some articles and books. Because honesty what your saying is stupidly shite.
Typical Corbynista response. No actual take down, its just wrong.
You wanna tell me how he's being smeared with his utterly stupid plans of bringing manufacturing back to the UK? The obsession with a sector we've long since pretty much lost. That it's not a throwback to the 70's from someone who never moved on? He's just another regressive with the view that manufacturing = good honest work, services = bad. Christ the man wants to bring coal back. The sooner people like him move on from this ancient view and start looking at what the UK is now, the better.
Principled but dim. That's a nice epitaph for Corbyn.
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To give the benefit of the doubt, other people have said 'read a book' before in argument. So, you know.
"neoliberalism"
"echo chamber"
"smear"
The list grows almost by the hour. This is all they have.
Blair an Iraq 2: Electric Boogaloo
Of course, Blair. How could we forget him? Still absolutely central to everything, apparently.
"Read a book"
"Neoliberalism"
"Echo chamber"
"Blair"
"Iraq"
I feel we should make some kind of informal list. I do enjoy the part where we also have to pretend to be staggered that this government is maintaining a healthy, enviable given the circumstances, position in opinion polling. The left have nothing. The Corbyn left that is. If it wasn't for the fact this is the worst time to have vacant idiots at the wheel of the opposition, you'd almost feel sorry for them.
"Neoliberalism"
"Echo chamber"
"Blair"
"Iraq"
I feel we should make some kind of informal list. I do enjoy the part where we also have to pretend to be staggered that this government is maintaining a healthy, enviable given the circumstances, position in opinion polling. The left have nothing. The Corbyn left that is. If it wasn't for the fact this is the worst time to have vacant idiots at the wheel of the opposition, you'd almost feel sorry for them.
Um...okay.
You've posted a link to the search results for the term 'Blair' in this thread. Which is supposed to be a response to something, I'm presuming?
I know I said the list was growing fast but if I'm already going to add 'understanding how making a point works' then even I think it's taking the piss a bit.
you're the only who keeps mentioning blair, the rest of us don't give a solitary feck, stop mentioning him if you're so sick of hearing about him, the rest of us certainly are
You've just posted a link showing that you've mentioned him four times in this thread since Friday.
It's adorable isn't it?
1: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leader.409447/page-282#post-22963854
oh there's a shock, i was making fun of another stupid oscie posts
2: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leader.409447/page-280#post-22959048
oh look who brought him up, again
3: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leader.409447/page-277#post-22957287
ok i'll give you that one
4: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/jeremy-corbyn-labour-leader.409447/page-263#post-22885810
a few Fridays ago but look who brought him up again
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Definitely not an unhinged cult.
oh man wait until he finds out about suicide pact
I already know about the last election.
Labour Alternative models of ownership
https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Alternative-Models-of-Ownership.pdf
Technology and Post Capitalism
The ‘Preston Model’ and the modern politics of municipal socialism
https://www.opendemocracy.net/neweconomics/preston-model-modern-politics-municipal-socialism/
Labour set to include pilot of radical basic income policy in next manifesto, John McDonnell says
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...-corbyn-poverty-social-benefits-a8471616.html
But yeah the 70's or whatever.
I'm not sure a forum (a place where people can look up old posts) is really for you to be honest.
Your anger at Corbyn and his supporters is quite extraordinary.
Honestly, most of the Momentum supporters I know follow a similar pattern. They have baby boomer generation parents who are starting to need the NHS so have become aware of the strain on it. They have kids stuck in underfunded state schools and commute to jobs on a very cynically run privatised rail network. Add to this that they’re a generation that can’t afford to get on the housing market.
In all your ire, the thing you never mention is that Corbyn’s supporters were first brought together by their desire to seek an end to austerity and support a politician who wants to rebalance the wealth distribution in the U.K.
To me, they all seem like perfectly ordinary things to want to address through politics. But sure, carry on hurling bile and insults at people.
Another new idea is the proposed changes in quantitive easing, going from money given to commercial banks as happens now, to a national investment bank that doesn't give billions of pounds to wankers in the city of london.
His supporters were first brought together to 'win back' the Labour party. They didn't, and don't, give a toss about anything beyond that. Hence losing general elections is now something the Labour party celebrates. It's why Tory Brexit is something the Labour party do not wish to oppose. You talk about redistribution of wealth yet are perfectly fine with the policies of Brexit that he shares with the hardline Tory right, that will make this country significantly poorer than before. There isn't any joined-up thinking. You like the idea of Corbyn, but like others in the same position you're not willing to deal with the realities of Corbyn.
What matters to those of us who oppose him is that we see him as the biggest asset the Tory party could wish for and therefore see him as an unwitting enabler of all those things you listed above. Do we really think an opposition with its act together would have allowed this govt to get away with 5% of the shite it gets away with?
But even on that we're not even allowed to attribute the performance of the opposition to the leader of the opposition, are we? It's all someone else's fault, isn't it? Like Brexit, the fault lies not with the people in charge of the fecking disaster, it lies with people who have spend 2/3 years pointing out what an absolute fecking disaster it is.
You really need to sort out your unbelievably grating habit of presenting crap as fact.
Corbyn won the leadership election simply because he opposed austerity and this fired the imagination of Labour members. Earlier in the thread you declared that Corbyn supporters were united through a need to moan about his enemies. That’s wrong, as they were united by his alternative to austerity.
It’s also completely wrong to say Corbyn supporters celebrated a general election loss. You know this, so don’t waste time lying. Knives were sharpened on the basis that everyone expected Labour to suffer a landslide defeat and well intentioned supporters were fired up that he confounded wide spread predictions.
What are the ‘realities of Corbyn I’m unwilling to deal with’ please?
And who is the alternative leader that you suppose would have got Labour a better result in the last election?
What alternative to austerity? Even at the last election he stood on a platform that pledged at best only a moderate increase on the "austerity" level spending of the government. And one of the biggest realities of Corbyn you're unwilling to deal with is that his policy on Brexit is pretty much exactly the same as Jacob Rees-Mogg. Hence why the last thing any Corbyn supporter in this thread wishes to address, is Brexit.
Then there's also the terrible polling, the being marred in antisemitism, highly questionable past statements of support and solidarity with terrorists - some of whom murdered British citizens deliberately - the fact that his supporter base echo Trump's ("Conspiracy", "Smear", "Biased media","Witch-hunt") and the fact Labour are now completely irrelevant. Aside from the antisemtiism debacle, when was the last time there was a keynote speech, policy announcement, setting or slight influencing of the agenda or any point in the last 4 months when the Labour party have nailed this government's balls to the floor on anything?
But sure, the problem isn't that this is the least effective opposition anyone can remember in 30 years, the problem is with people who have the gall to notice that this is the least effective opposition anyone can remember in 30 years. You see schools crumble, the NHS on its knees and a government that is getting away with everything and an opposition either unwilling or incapable of doing anything about it which you support and you make yourself feel better by pretending it's not you who is part of the problem, it's the others.
totally, that's why labour voted in favour of the ERG amendments and the lib dems turned up to the crucial votes and brought down the government
Rees-Mogg wants to leave the EU, single market, and customs union.
Corbyn wants to leave the EU, single market and customs union.
I'm guessing this is the point where we pretend this represents a difference of position. Noticing reality is now a thing no longer permitted.
Corbyn wants to leave the EU, single market and customs union.
I'm guessing this is the point where we pretend this represents a difference of position. Noticing reality is now a thing no longer permitted.
Nope.
Very happy to talk Brexit but I think there’s a long way to go. Momentum have come out in favour of a second referendum so it will be interesting to see how Labour policy eventually manifests itself.
Out of interest, do you know who was actually the official figurehead for Labour’s remain campaign?
Also still waiting for your suggestion of a leader who would have polled better in the last GE?
Ah I forgot that rather big one.
Theres a critique to be had at the labours policy and how they will try to implement both from the left & right which could be a interesting discussion but people just repeating headlines they've seen in a newspaper is well a bit rubbish.
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May got more votes than Corbyn. Polled a higher share than Corbyn. In the current polls she's ahead of Corbyn in 'best leader'.
If they think Corbyn is doing well, they must think she's doing absolutely brilliantly. Or is that another one of those facts we have to pretend we don't know and should instead chastise ourselves by repeating "he's a man of peace" and pretending not to notice Corbyn is doing everything he can to enable a Tory Brexit?
If they think Corbyn is doing well, they must think she's doing absolutely brilliantly. Or is that another one of those facts we have to pretend we don't know and should instead chastise ourselves by repeating "he's a man of peace" and pretending not to notice Corbyn is doing everything he can to enable a Tory Brexit?