Mou can’t hand out old-school tongue-lashings as modern stars are too mentally frail says Lou Macari
- Thread starter #07
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
He's got a point.
I am not saying it's fair. Likes of Martial and Pogba do need a bit of whip cracking now and then. But the modern day players are able to engineer transfer moves with ease thanks to their agents even if they have just signed contracts. It's hard, but managers have to adapt to this new player power and find another way to assert their dominance over the players.
I am not saying it's fair. Likes of Martial and Pogba do need a bit of whip cracking now and then. But the modern day players are able to engineer transfer moves with ease thanks to their agents even if they have just signed contracts. It's hard, but managers have to adapt to this new player power and find another way to assert their dominance over the players.
In this case, not only Manchester united are affected but all the clubs..
DAE Millenials are lazy and soft???
Fergie would have created an environment where someone not putting the work in would have been a pariah and an outlier vs the rest who would have run into a brick wall for him. I get the point about players now having more power and it did show up from time to time but idk if it is fair to make a comparison to the current situation. This problem is one of Mourinho own doing so saying Fergie would struggle as well is not true when he would not have let it get to this point.
Its not fair to judge Mou too harshly when many of the problems where here before he even got the job but at some point you have to wonder how many excuses you can trot out before you get to the actual problem.
Also the whole spiel about young players lacking bollocks seems like outdated mode of thinking when one did just that last year when he single handedly dug his team out of relegation. If young players where so soft than Pep's team would be full of geriatrics.
Its not fair to judge Mou too harshly when many of the problems where here before he even got the job but at some point you have to wonder how many excuses you can trot out before you get to the actual problem.
Also the whole spiel about young players lacking bollocks seems like outdated mode of thinking when one did just that last year when he single handedly dug his team out of relegation. If young players where so soft than Pep's team would be full of geriatrics.
SAF very likely would not have brought Pogba back. He hated his agent.
Lol is that the problem here? That our players are to soft for a tongue lashing and if they weren't we'd be playing amazing football right?
I dont understand how the moment pogba said that comment about being fined he wasnt hauled in the office first thing monday morning.
There appears to be no communication, and everyone plays he said she said through the press. Pogba, martial going awol, its insane how nobody is in control
There appears to be no communication, and everyone plays he said she said through the press. Pogba, martial going awol, its insane how nobody is in control
a) Man management isn't as simple as handing out tongue lashings to every bloody player as Mourinho seems to want. You have to know what works with whom and Sir Alex was a fecking master at that.
b) This isn't unique to Manchester United and its players.
c) Mourinho needs to adapt.
All these fecking, Sir Alex would have struggled too bits piss me off. Mourinho isnt fit to lace the great man's boots
b) This isn't unique to Manchester United and its players.
c) Mourinho needs to adapt.
All these fecking, Sir Alex would have struggled too bits piss me off. Mourinho isnt fit to lace the great man's boots
The bold is the key point here, it's not like there wasn't player power back when Fergie was managing, (admittedly not as much as now), but it was how he dealt with that which made him such a great manager. He knew when players needed to be shown the door before causing too much of a stink. Roy Keane was beloved by fans, but it didn't stop Fergie selling him as soon as he thought he'd overstepped his mark.
EDIT: Great post by the way
Well, yeah. That is what happens when you smash your wage budget and start signings rappers posing as football players on insane contracts that didn't make sense in the first place. Some of these guys need a right royal bollocking but Mourinho won't be the one dishing it out unfortunately.
Think it just shows that you cannot manage by bullying now. Are players a bit precious? Yes. It is all about man management now and that isn't Jose any longer. Everything has changed management, tactics etc. Although to me if you treat the players correctly they will still go out and battle for you.
Bullshit. Mourinho was once known for creating a siege mentality in his teams and he got famous in the press for deflecting criticisms away from his players, that is the only way to create a siege mentality, ever since he started crapping on his players in public, he has been losing dressing rooms everywhere. I still believe that Madrid broke him and ever since he has never cared about the players. He will defend them when it suits him and throw them under the bus when he wants to escape criticism.
And old people glorifying the past has been going on for so long, it basically untrue and shite. All the millenials becoming old will preach the next generation how strong they were and poor the younger generation is. It's a vicious cycle.
And old people glorifying the past has been going on for so long, it basically untrue and shite. All the millenials becoming old will preach the next generation how strong they were and poor the younger generation is. It's a vicious cycle.
Bunch of fannys the lot of ‘em. When I wor a lad we had tut lick road clean for tut breakfast and then our father would beat us within an inch of wor lives, and that was before we got out of bed.
Maybe, but at least they didn't turned up on the pitch drunk.
Come again?
Well exactly.
All this Players Are Mentally Weak Primadonnas bollocks has no foundation whatever, other than with a small minority of players, i.e. Pogba and Martial. Who else? Alexis has been crap, but there’s no evidence that he’s suddenly become mentally weak since signing for us. Young is a real warrior. Lingard might be a bit of an immature tit, but his work rate and commitment are first class.
I’m far from convinced that the manager has lost the dressing room either, or that the majority of the players dislike him. The players with a good professional attitude, even some whose attitude has been questioned (Shaw) seem to have no problem with him at all.
There’s definitely something up though, as evidenced by the pathetic display at Brighton. Do a couple of “bad apples” spread gloom and despondency throughout the rest of the squad? Is it that Jose has lost confidence and self belief, and passed that on to the players? Is it that Jose simply isn’t sufficiently directive, and the players need to be told what to do more than they are?
I’m really not sure, but this notion that United is riddled with individuals with especially bad attitudes is nonsense.
What’s wrong with that? I used to do it every Sunday for fecks sake.
Not only the players are weak, even the fans are weak.
Martial can throw a tiny sulk and the fans are up in arms and actually saying he's treated like shit and want him to move for his own good. How times have changed. If the likes of martial/pogba coming here and read the comments here they'll feel vindicated and keep on doing what they're doing because they think the fans are on their side.
Martial can throw a tiny sulk and the fans are up in arms and actually saying he's treated like shit and want him to move for his own good. How times have changed. If the likes of martial/pogba coming here and read the comments here they'll feel vindicated and keep on doing what they're doing because they think the fans are on their side.
This. Honestly I don't know how so many Manchester United fans can compare them like they are equals.
All of this. Sir Alex would most certainly have known what to do. The state of people suggesting otherwise.
And why is it only Jose who's struggling with the modern footballer? Don't see it happening at City, Pool, Wolves, Brighton etc. More bloody excuses.
Who?
I hope for your sanity's sake that you arent refering to Pogba here.
Absolutely.
Happens in every aspect of life. Treat people the way you want to be treated.
You can't insinuate your players aren't good enough all preseason, and then expect them to give 100% - no employee (no matter how well intentioned), either directly or indirectly, ever goes over and above what they need to do if you treat them like shit.
we are talking about people who are actually paid to play football. Do you turn to work drunk?
That's coming from a guy who failed at the management though.
SAF in his late years was mellow as hell. But, he went toe on toe with the tough guys in his early days to put arms around to guys like Cantona, Ronaldo etc.
You would think SAF retired 70 years ago or some shit.
SAF in his late years was mellow as hell. But, he went toe on toe with the tough guys in his early days to put arms around to guys like Cantona, Ronaldo etc.
You would think SAF retired 70 years ago or some shit.
If you want an example of SAF's handling of delicate youngsters, read up on how he handled a young Ronaldo. Jose on the other hand couldn't even get along with the more mature version of Ronaldo. He and SAF aren't in the same stratosphere of man management
It isn't that long since SAF was manager. He seemed to cope pretty well with "modern stars" when he was winning the PL with them a few years ago. At roughly the same time that Mourinho was falling out with the same generation at Madrid, come to think of it.
Plus even if modern players have undergone complete personality changes in the last half decade, so what? It's Mourinho's job to be able to adapt and deal with them like every other current top manager has done. If he can't deal with the players then the problem is that he's out of touch and no longer good enough.
Plus even if modern players have undergone complete personality changes in the last half decade, so what? It's Mourinho's job to be able to adapt and deal with them like every other current top manager has done. If he can't deal with the players then the problem is that he's out of touch and no longer good enough.
Aside from the two that you (rightly IMO) mention, who are the weak players?
Spot on, it's not a matter of now vs then - it's a matter of identifying the different personality types in your squad and handling them all accordingly.
Great post. SAF also really knew when to put a arm around a players shoulder and when to give him a kick up the backside.
Does anyone think style of play may also come into the equation? I'm guessing players saw how City played last season while winning things and arent too sold on our approach - i mean its hard to play your best when the style of play stifles your creativity.
I doubt it.
I was watching City's documentory on Amazon (I known I know how dare I, top red etc) but Pep was hard on the players a few times. A couple of examples, he took off sterling when he missed a sitter and told him that that. Sterling actually agreed with him. And when they went down to 10 men against Cardiff, he took sane off for walker. Sane wasn't happy but pep told him to 'stop making a face' and it's all about the team. Sane was fine.
The point is, i think much is made up about players being soft these days and unable to take harsh criticisms from the manager, but in reality that's not quite the truth.
I was watching City's documentory on Amazon (I known I know how dare I, top red etc) but Pep was hard on the players a few times. A couple of examples, he took off sterling when he missed a sitter and told him that that. Sterling actually agreed with him. And when they went down to 10 men against Cardiff, he took sane off for walker. Sane wasn't happy but pep told him to 'stop making a face' and it's all about the team. Sane was fine.
The point is, i think much is made up about players being soft these days and unable to take harsh criticisms from the manager, but in reality that's not quite the truth.
Exactly my thoughts, hasn’t stopped all the other big clubs in Europe continuing their success.
Yes, he can.
He can hand out tongue-lashings to his own signings, because he tends to buy pyschologically strong players. Jose wants a squad he can get a reaction out of.
He cannont, however, hand out tongue-lashings to LvG's signings. They were bought to different criteria. Mental strength was seemingly low down on the list of priorities.
Human beings haven't changed in the last few years. Every old man, Lou Macari included, believes that the newer generations are getting softer. It's not true. But what is true is that the profile of the average Manchester United player has changed since Fergie left. Mourinho's biggest job is to change it back.
https://proto-knowledge.blogspot.com/2010/11/what-is-wrong-with-young-people-today.html
He can hand out tongue-lashings to his own signings, because he tends to buy pyschologically strong players. Jose wants a squad he can get a reaction out of.
He cannont, however, hand out tongue-lashings to LvG's signings. They were bought to different criteria. Mental strength was seemingly low down on the list of priorities.
Human beings haven't changed in the last few years. Every old man, Lou Macari included, believes that the newer generations are getting softer. It's not true. But what is true is that the profile of the average Manchester United player has changed since Fergie left. Mourinho's biggest job is to change it back.
https://proto-knowledge.blogspot.com/2010/11/what-is-wrong-with-young-people-today.html
No but I turn to drink because of work. Doesn’t everyone?
Yeah and are dad used to batter us with a broken bottle, dance on are grave etc. Try tellin the kids today that. Do they believe yer?
Who did that? Honestly haven't got a clue . What I do know is that I miss a Robson, Bruce, Moran, Keane aso in todays team. Someone to fecking get into the other players faces when they are playing like fannies
Pogba and Lindelof are.
Pogba's World Cup showed that. Not to mention his reaction to the Brighton game.
Lindelof has never moaned about being on the bench, and looks like a player trying to improve himself every game. You're confusing physical strength with mental strength.
Mkhitaryan was a gamble made by United to keep Raiola on sweet on the Pogba deal. The gamble didn't pay off, but that happens sometimes.
https://www.express.co.uk/sport/foo...aryan-Arsenal-Paul-Pogba-secret-reason-gossip
Mourinho very clearly has a profile for his signings. He wants players who'll take criticism and fight back harder. It's been evident since the early 2000s.
Pogba might be for France, but I don't know if he is for us. There is way more pressure and scrutiny when he plays for us. His reaction to the Brighton game was fine, but it again raises question as to why his attitude wasn't right prior to the game. Why did he think Brighton would be a easy game?
Lindelof may not have complained at all, but he looks nervy and constantly lacks composure whenever he plays for us. I'm not confusing physical strength with mental strength. I don't think he has mental strength in my opinion. I could be wrong though.