He looked confident and composed playing for Sweden at the World Cup.
Mou can’t hand out old-school tongue-lashings as modern stars are too mentally frail says Lou Macari
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Dont know who's more behind the times here,Lou Macari or Jose.
Not disagreeing.
He doesn't give off that same vibe with us though.
No disrespect to Sweden, but it's different when you play for Manchester United.
I think it's much more to do with the relative power of players and agents than them being soft. They hold the cards nowadays and they know it.
Of course he has a point. But Mourinho has to adapt.
Best was quite renowned for it but so were the likes of Robson. I once met someone who was part of Middlesbrough board and the stories I heard were staggering. Regarding keane wasn't he the one who kept the club at ransom for a better salary, then blamed the Nevilles when he himself was finished and is still crying about how United treated him?
Football changed. Players take care of themselves and we should do the same. The fact we retain players who aren't good enough doesn't make us righteous but simply silly
Makes Mourinho sound like a dog who needs to be put out of his misery
I think he has a point partially.
Mourinho can deliver his lashings to players that he knows will respond to it. He can't do it to those that will feel slighted by it.
It's strange how old school players were supposed to be mentally strong and have character which was demonstrated by their alleged docility while new school players are mentally frail and lack character but will be more prone to rebellion.
We used to have seniors in the team that broke the young ones egos down a little and kept them under control. Basically bullying in a right of passage type way. We don't have anyone to dish it out now do we?
Now players come in with their brand and anything that damages that they take slight at. Fergie and the old class would have torn Martial a new one for sulking about the loss of his number, they'd have put the arm around him again only when he stopped behaving like a spoilt kid.
Now players come in with their brand and anything that damages that they take slight at. Fergie and the old class would have torn Martial a new one for sulking about the loss of his number, they'd have put the arm around him again only when he stopped behaving like a spoilt kid.
they hardly had a choice. The Bosman ruling shifted the power from clubs to players
You might want to take that back. I’m not P.C or anything but I’m not having this rapper stereotype.
It's not strange to me. It's a matter of POV, it's like in the army, you prove your toughness by obeying to every single order your higher ups give and you do it with pride. If you're not cut out for the army, you will whine, moan, cry and then eventually give up.
You perfectly know that old school footballers weren't stronger nor more disciplined. Also power is still within clubs, only household names have more power but it was already the case pre-bosman just look at a player like Cruijff.
Show me any manager of a club that matter that talked bad about a player after they won a WC?
SAF might have struggled but at the same time, like you said, he would have adapted his approach depending on the player. His man management skills were incredible
Macari is mimicking what Carragher wrote in the papers a few days ago. Carragher spoke with Mourinho after he was sacked by Chelsea.
"Mourinho once told me after losing his job at Chelsea how he could see how management was evolving, players no longer receptive or tolerant to criticism even behind closed doors.
"Power has eroded even for the most formidable of managers."
Courtesy of Telegraph.
"Mourinho once told me after losing his job at Chelsea how he could see how management was evolving, players no longer receptive or tolerant to criticism even behind closed doors.
"Power has eroded even for the most formidable of managers."
Courtesy of Telegraph.
Yeah, but why is this?
Why can Sweden organise a defence made up of average players, whereas United can’t; even accepting that United’s defenders are average, which is debatable.
Why is it that everyone on the footballing side at United seems crushed by the experience?
Fergie’s been gone for over five years now. Surely his all-pervading aura can’t still be held responsible?
I don’t believe Jose’s man management is poor, nor that all the players hate him. Let’s not lose sight of the fightback at City only a few months ago.
I wonder how that person must've felt about young Becks in all his lavish and metrosexual splendor if they consider young footballers living the lives of young millionaires to mean that they're 'rappers' masquerading as footballers
Look it's nonsense, current young players have been competing since they are 14 years old, even joining an academy is a national and international competition, when they are in academies they continue the competition and fight to stay but senior teams are totally different now, clubs with their wealth and their network are able to purchase players from everywhere, they are also able to ditch them quickly too. Most of the old guys that say these things haven't been in that context, they have been in a pre-bosman context where foreign transfers were rare, a context were academies were mainly made of locals and where the competition was weaker.
Any old excuse now. Somehow this is specifically a United problem. fecking pathetic.
It's quite the paradox
With how they’re playing, I’m not sure they aren’t drunk.
Playing in a world cup(final for Pogba) is a lot more pressure than a league game against Brighton.
Comes to handling players , how come spurs hold onto their players on less wages compared to the wages we play to our stars or other big clubs
Likes of Ali,Kane,Erickson,Toby,Lorie all are still on reasonable wages and they can double it if they leave but they are happy to pay for spurs. I don't get it and also when spurs want to sell their players it's always on clubs terms ..
I know Levy factor but still it amuses me how he manages that?
Likes of Ali,Kane,Erickson,Toby,Lorie all are still on reasonable wages and they can double it if they leave but they are happy to pay for spurs. I don't get it and also when spurs want to sell their players it's always on clubs terms ..
I know Levy factor but still it amuses me how he manages that?
In fairness to Lou he was tweeting about this before Carragher’s piece went to print:
You mightn’t agree with Lou’s views but I don’t think he’s getting them out of Merseyside!
You are wrong. There is no way to gauge a player's mental strength. Neither of us are psychologists and even they wouldn't be able to find out by watching games unless Lindelof is visiting them for help. Lack of composure and looking nervy is just lack of skill not of mental strength, plenty of bang average players look tough and are confident but will still lack composure and look nervous when they are asked to do something they have no skill to do.
Like when he asked Beckham if he didn’t mind giving up his number shirt. Really tore young Becks a new one.
If I could just put here what Ibra has recently had to say about him: (I posted this in another thread earlier in the summer)
"A relationship between a player and a coach has to be between a player and a coach.I know what he wants, I know his demands, I know what he goes for: He is a winner, I see myself as a winner also, I like to win. I give everything to win, he thinks the same. And we won, we both won when we were younger and we will win when we are a little bit older."
(Interviewer) "What makes him special? What sets him apart."
Ibra: "Wherever he went, with Porto, for example, he won the champions league, In short time he is very successful. There are not many managers who have this level of success, in a short time.
He is direct with everyone, he is not a coach who goes behind you. He will tell you, if you are not good enough, you are not good enough. Instead of having somebody who doesn't say anything to you, and your situation is so so. I think its good because you don't hear anything. He does what he needs to do to win. He will do whatever it takes to win, just like me as a player, and when he does not win he isn't happy."
Interesting to note how well Ibra gets on with him, taking note of the type of personality Ibra is. I think the more sensitive footballers will very much struggle to work with Jose, which is why he is so keen to let some people go.
"A relationship between a player and a coach has to be between a player and a coach.I know what he wants, I know his demands, I know what he goes for: He is a winner, I see myself as a winner also, I like to win. I give everything to win, he thinks the same. And we won, we both won when we were younger and we will win when we are a little bit older."
(Interviewer) "What makes him special? What sets him apart."
Ibra: "Wherever he went, with Porto, for example, he won the champions league, In short time he is very successful. There are not many managers who have this level of success, in a short time.
He is direct with everyone, he is not a coach who goes behind you. He will tell you, if you are not good enough, you are not good enough. Instead of having somebody who doesn't say anything to you, and your situation is so so. I think its good because you don't hear anything. He does what he needs to do to win. He will do whatever it takes to win, just like me as a player, and when he does not win he isn't happy."
Interesting to note how well Ibra gets on with him, taking note of the type of personality Ibra is. I think the more sensitive footballers will very much struggle to work with Jose, which is why he is so keen to let some people go.
How do you motivate millionaires that have most likely only ever known a life as a footballer?
They are pampered from an early age and their egos are inflated by living the dream and being told that they are special.
Why aren’t we looking at character and leadership attributes when buying players? I see a total lack of those traits in our team. Where is the Bryan Robson, Roy Keane or Steve Bruce of this team?
There’s no one on the pitch that is encouraging and driving us forward. All I see is slumped shoulders, hands on hips and blaming others for mistakes. Bunch of individuals all playing for themselves
They are pampered from an early age and their egos are inflated by living the dream and being told that they are special.
Why aren’t we looking at character and leadership attributes when buying players? I see a total lack of those traits in our team. Where is the Bryan Robson, Roy Keane or Steve Bruce of this team?
There’s no one on the pitch that is encouraging and driving us forward. All I see is slumped shoulders, hands on hips and blaming others for mistakes. Bunch of individuals all playing for themselves
Don't think its specifically a United problem. Chelsea for example seem to win PL every 2 years now and then completely implode the following season. Surely it has something to do with players mentality rather than all managers suddenly becoming shite after summer break.
I remember reading somewhere that under SAF, before signing players we used to have interviews with them to make sure they have a required mentality to survive at Manchester United and fit well into the team. That's what made it a TEAM. I am pretty sure we don't do this anymore hence why we have team of individuals and if we go 0-1 down it's a game over, we just give up (City away was some incredible exception). Then the manager criticises some players (sometimes rightly, sometimes not) and it just makes it worse. Situation with Pogba is just weird and I really don't think it has much to do with coaching. 1 week he can be a superstar running the show, 7 days later he is useless playing like a 5 a side kickabout with mates and loses the ball 30 times. Don't even know how to explain that.
In other words Mourinho has failed to adapt and has been left behind. Other managers don't need to use tough love to get a tune out of their players so why can't Mourinho adapt? The players are not bad players they just need better coaching and man management. Look at managers like Southgate for example. His management style is perfect for the modern player because he managed to get the England team all on the same page and built a real squad harmony. That is the approach you need with these players. The players are the same everywhere. It's mourinho who's out of touch.
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Keane walked out on his team in the fecking World Cup, imagine the shitstorm he'd get if something similar happened in this age of social media? These old people complaining about the young are just hypocrites.
I made this exact point, albeit in a different conversation, and i was shouted down for being an idiot “newbie” (classy). I made the point that Klopp, and Pep in particular are no nonsense with their players and don’t hold back whatsoever but hey ho, Jose is the big bad wolf.
Tell you what, his biggest mistake was coddling his Chelsea players the season they won the double (part 2). He basically rewarded their efforts by giving them extra break and a good number of the bastards returned a few stones overweight and the season never took off and he was rightfully sacked.
IMO, the Fergie “hairdryer” approach is still the best method to me. Get in there and let rip, let them know who’s boss and allow no fannying about. It generates pride for the shirt and badge. Anything less and you’ll have players having the “wrong attitude” and cherry picking which games to turn up for.
Get a DoF in by all means but the sooner this club lets the players know the clear hierarchy and that the boss has the final say on pitch related matters the better.
You don’t want to be Chelsea with all the drama the players create. Running to the owner grassing up the manager ffs!
You’ll get your wish soon enough. In my view, he’s only behind Pellegrini in this year’s sack-race league table, with St. Pep, Klopp, and Poch battling for relegation.
Ibra is from the last generation of footballers though, and was always an extreme example. He has probably one of the toughest personalities in the game, and it was one of the best attributes he brought to the club. I genuinely think there is a correlation between when he left the club (last March), and when things seemingly started to unravel. Ibra was the strongest link between the squad and Jose's ethos.
I don't think it comes as a surprise that old-school, hardline man-management is no longer able to yield the success and respect it once did. You can still have intensity (Pep), but when it comes to handling players egos, it does appear a softer approach gets the most success. This may have to do with how international the game is - the former approach is less likely to translate throughout an entire squad than a softer, more inclusive one.
That said, when Jose first came to the EPL, I always got the impression he was one of the first managers to really embrace this. He seems to have changed tact massively since being at Madrid.
That said, I do think there is still a place for a more traditional managerial approach, just not necessarily amongst the game's biggest clubs right now. Jose has always embraced the underdog spirit, and had incredible success at teams punching above their weight. I wonder if this would be a move he would consider after his stint with us.
So, if not Jose, then who?
Jose is the only one who has enough clout to say things to players that they don't want to hear.
Carrick and McKenna are not the types to do so and it would be strange to hire someone specifically to dish out tongue lashings.
It has to be Jose who does it.
As you stated, there is a A LOT of pressure when playing for MUFC.
Some players handle the pressure immediately. Some learn to handle it, while some never get to grips with the pressure on them.
There is still time for Lindeloff, but Pogba may never make the adjustment (ie. if he only plays well in half our games (as he currently does), he will constantly get negativity directed towards him and he doesn't seem to respond well to this. Every time he plays badly, his agent starts pimping him out to other clubs. This is a consistent pattern).
I wonder how that person must've felt about young Becks in all his lavish and metrosexual splendor if they consider young footballers living the lives of young millionaires to mean that they're 'rappers' masquerading as footballers
Glad it’s not just me that thinks it’s a bizarre comment!
I'm sure Fergie and the old class would have ripped him a new one if that was the case. But I highly doubt he would have taken his number from him and made him feel like an outcast. I'm almost positive that Martial is a player Fergie would have lived to work with!
I believe it is Mourinho at fault here, not the players. And Mourinho's treatment of Martial has really highlighted that for me.
Why? Maybe they are good at communicating in 1v1 and say tell things that are not easy to say in a way that is appreciated and valued.