Nemanja Matic at centre half...

Next thread will be to pair him at the back with fellaini
 
Why not. Couldn't possibly be worse than the clowns we have there as it stands.
 
But..... Why?.. We're just making problems by trying to solve something that doesn't need fixing in this way. Smalling +1, try to cello-tape it through this season and then break the whole thing up next season. Bailly and Lindelof need to continue to be shielded and settle. An actual right back couldn't hurt as well.

Progress though, not many posts with the stupid term "ball playing defender" in them. That is a start, need to start calling defending what it is. Defending, our guys can't even get that part right before we start adding in bonus features and trying to claim that it is part of the defensive process.
 
Class of 63 said:
You've just described Terry Butcher, and SAF and Big Ron before him would have given their right arm to get him to Old Trafford
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But, he spent his whole career at CB. And a CB who commits a lot of fouls in the modern game is costly. Phil Jones does not commit that many fouls but, people view as a liability since he has committed fouls at big moments.
 
Ashley R1+O said:
But..... Why?.. We're just making problems by trying to solve something that doesn't need fixing in this way. Smalling +1, try to cello-tape it through this season and then break the whole thing up next season. Bailly and Lindelof need to continue to be shielded and settle. An actual right back couldn't hurt as well.

Progress though, not many posts with the stupid term "ball playing defender" in them. That is a start, need to start calling defending what it is. Defending, our guys can't even get that part right before we start adding in bonus features and trying to claim that it is part of the defensive process.
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Especially now being good on the ball is crucial at defending. We are so far behind sides the big sides in Europe and in the league when it comes to building from the back. And we would be stronger defensively if we are able to effectively move the ball from the back.
 
Matic last season practically played CB in front of Utd's shaky defense. He played so close to the back line it is indistinguishable if he is CDF or CB. His covering of their a$$s and DDH was the reason we conceded less last season. This time 3 matches he is absent and these guys are fully exposed.

Last season early on he was playing in position of CDM. We were scoring fine. Then Huddersfield happened. After that if you notice he fell back closer to CB to give them cover. He limited his venturing farther. That had cascading effect on the entire team. Pogba started falling back to get service from midfield which is now playing closer to CB. It pulled everyone back and threw our counterattacking out of the window. This brought opposition midfield unchallenged within our half. That started wave of attacks after attacks. All opposition have to do is to press high. This is an example of one weak area can do to the team. Hence there were cries to get experienced CB to keep that line strong. But nothing happened. So this season too Matic will play pseudo CB.

Fred is now employed so that pogba will not have to stay close to Matic. Hope he does what is expected from him.
 
Class of 63 said:
You might laugh but I think Fellaini would do a passable job in central defence, he's got everything needed
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He has everything needed but will only do a passable job? I guess even you realise there's a lot more to defending than being able to head the ball.
 
How about Matic doing his job properly of sitting in front of and shielding the back four.
 
Herrera didn't look terrible on the right of a back three did he? I can see Jose sticking with that rather than leaving a Matic sized whole in your midfield.
 
When I played (very) low level Sunday league football, I moved from CM to CB when I got older and slowed down. I couldn’t believe how easy CB was. The ball always came at me from one direction and I found that it was more about interceptions than tackles. My passing probably improved because I had more space than in CM.

I know PL is different gravy but could the same principles apply?
 
Red_toad said:
Have done so far this season. How’d you recon our natural defenders are going.
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Not easy when they get dropped after a single bad performance.

Mourinho should give them a run of games before deeming them not good enough.
 
ash_86 said:
I think him in the middle of 3 slightly ahead of other 2 might work.
---------------------Matic-----------------
-----Smalling ----------------Bailly-----
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Isn't that where he normally plays?
 
Playing a midfielder at centre back cost us a goal in the last game. Why would we do it again?
 
Not for me.

The major problem with playing inexperienced players at CB is that they're not always alert to holding the line and stepping up together to play forwards offside. So the defence ends up sitting quite deep by reflex, since if you don't trust your line to play the offside trap effectively the defenders try to stay goalside of attackers at all times.

This effect would also be encouraged by the fact that Matic seems to now be quite a slow player. So he wouldn't risk playing a bit higher up as he wouldn't recover from an over-the-top ball that finds the striker.

Result? We sit very deep, which is already a problem we're struggling with. We surrender possession a lot and teams come at us. Therefore it wouldn't bring any improvement.
 
Varun said:
He has everything needed but will only do a passable job? I guess even you realise there's a lot more to defending than being able to head the ball.
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Not sure what you've got a problem with there, there are plenty of players up and down the Leagues that have got the tools needed to be good central-defenders, doesn't mean they can do it for Manchester United does it ?
 
Class of 63 said:
Not sure what you've got a problem with there, there are plenty of players up and down the Leagues that have got the tools needed to be good central-defenders, doesn't mean they can do it for Manchester United does it ?
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What tools has Fellaini ever shown to be a CB besides being tall? He struggles with positioning so bad that he becomes a liability in CM, imagine him at CB. It'd be fun. For the opposition. That's without even going into his reckless tackling etc
 
There is no evidence to suggest Matic would be a better option at CB even over our shittiest CB. Doing so means Jose has gone last resort. Sort of like LVG putting Jones on corner duty or playing Young as a striker.
 
Varun said:
What tools has Fellaini ever shown to be a CB besides being tall? He struggles with positioning so bad that he becomes a liability in CM, imagine him at CB. It'd be fun. For the opposition. That's without even going into his reckless tackling etc
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Seriously ? The only midfielder we've got in the current squad that has anywhere near the game understanding(as in where to be, when and why) of Marouane Fellaini in our squad is Matic - not sure how you can watch us and think differently
 
Class of 63 said:
Seriously ? The only midfielder we've got in the current squad that has anywhere near the game understanding(as in where to be, when and why) of Marouane Fellaini in our squad is Matic - not sure how you can watch us and think differently
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Ok
 
Fellaini bossing it in front of the back four, might be the sneaky hidden gem we need.
 
Ashley R1+O said:
Fellaini bossing it in front of the back four, might be the sneaky hidden gem we need.
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Wanted to mention this.

He is playing between our CBs. Very calm and disciplined. His role in the first half shouldnt be under estimated.

His positioning is allowing Matic to advance a bit also.
 
That would be a really bad idea for me.
We should put a player who knows how to defend before thinking to create from the back. It would be important to stabilize our defense for the confidence of the team. Matic is slow, has never played in defense, not good in the air...so what's the point?
 
Big Ben Foster said:
How about we play our players in their natural positions for a change?
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Red_toad said:
Have done so far this season. How’d you recon our natural defenders are going.
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Red_toad said:
What have Mata and Pereria to do with central defence?
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The poster you replied to originally didn't specifically mention defence, they suggested we should be playing players in their natural positions. Which you said had been done, which isn't the case. Even limiting it to central defence only, there is still Herrera playing at CB.

Big Ben Foster said:
Pereria is a midfielder and has been playing in midfield, Mata is an attacking midfielder and is playing as such, please feel free to name a game where he's been hugging the touch line and trying to beat his man and whip in a cross?
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Pereira isn't a defensive midfielder, its not his position saying he's a midfielder playing in midfield is like saying Smalling at RB is a defender playing in defence. Yeah he's playing in defence but he'd still be out of position just like Pereira.

Mata is playing at RW or at least he's meant to be, but he's not occupying the position offensively or defensively. Leaving his fullback exposed and providing little or no outlet going forward on that side of the pitch. So he's clearly not a winger or of any description, so again he's being played out of position.

Players being played out of position was a trend that Van Gaal started that Mourinho seems to have carried on to an extent.
 
He's been very off form since he came back for me. Centre of the bench is where I want to see him till he#s more ready.
 
stevoc said:
Mata is playing at RW or at least he's meant to be, but he's not occupying the position offensively or defensively. Leaving his fullback exposed and providing little or no outlet going forward on that side of the pitch. So he's clearly not a winger or of any description, so again he's being played out of position.

Players being played out of position was a trend that Van Gaal started that Mourinho seems to have carried on to an extent.
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Not the thread topic but, Mata has been a RW for most of his career.
 
stevoc said:
Players being played out of position was a trend that Van Gaal started that Mourinho seems to have carried on to an extent.
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Absolute tosh, did you miss O'Shea/Giggs combo's in midfield, the twins playing left and right wing, Rio playing in Midfield etc etc etc all under Sir Alex. Bloke was a master at it. Also had Smalling at right back, Jones at right back and in midfield, the list is endless.

Players should all have some adaptability in their game. De Bruyne can play numerous midfield positions all to an exceptionally high level, seems we've gotten stuck with players lose their ability moving a few yards across the pitch. Rather than they should all have some adaptability, there are numerous players who've covered or gotten regular games out of their usual position and players are very able to evolve through their careers.
 
Red_toad said:
Absolute tosh, did you miss O'Shea/Giggs combo's in midfield, the twins playing left and right wing, Rio playing in Midfield etc etc etc all under Sir Alex. Bloke was a master at it. Also had Smalling at right back, Jones at right back and in midfield, the list is endless.
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I didn't mean Van Gaal invented it mate, i know Ferguson played players out of position at times, every manager does. But Van Gaal regularly put out teams with 4-5 players out of their natural position. He also played people out of position for longer periods of time. Blind at CB the whole season, Rooney in midfield, etc.
 
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