Rashford probably needs to leave - Jamie Redknapp

Pexbo said:
When Rooney arrived, Van Nistelrooy was up front and Rooney played a free role behind him. He wasn’t a centre forward by any stretch.

After Ruud left, when fit, Saha lead the line and Rooney again played in behind and started picking up wider positions. He occasionally got to lead the line when Saha was out but it wasn’t his main role.

The following season saw Rooney playing wider with Ronaldo having the licence to attack the box.

In the following years we bought Tevez and then Berbatov and Rooney was pushed wider and further back until 2010/2011 when he was given the nod to actually lead the line full time.

It’s a very comparable situation. In his first 5 or 6 years at the club it was very rare he had an extended stretch leading the line as the main CF.
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We have very rarely played with a single main CF leading the line. We have always had 2 or even at times 3 players sharing the role. Only when Ruud was here did we have a single focus to our attack and it didn't really work out that well. It's part of why i don't like how we play with Lukaku, if you can stop the CF in that setup you pretty much stop the whole team.

Rashford is nowhere near good enough to play that role for us, not many are, but he is also not showing enough to support Lukaku in the free role either. Rooney and Ronaldo were bordering on world class by the time they were 20, creating and scoring regularly.
 
Pexbo said:
Cool story!

Sturridge first signed for Chelsea in 2009.
Mourinho first left Chelsea in 2007.

Sturridge left Chelsea for Liverpool in January 2013.
Mourinho rejoined Chelsea in June 2013.


You basically made up a load of shite because it fit your agenda.
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Or simply made a mistake re Jose, the fact still remains Sturrdige should have been playing as a striker, and Rashford needs to play as a 9 if he wants to develop there long term. There no agenda but to say Rashford needs to be playing as a striker not a winger.
 
Pexbo said:
When Rooney arrived, Van Nistelrooy was up front and Rooney played a free role behind him. He wasn’t a centre forward by any stretch.

After Ruud left, when fit, Saha lead the line and Rooney again played in behind and started picking up wider positions. He occasionally got to lead the line when Saha was out but it wasn’t his main role.

The following season saw Rooney playing wider with Ronaldo having the licence to attack the box.

In the following years we bought Tevez and then Berbatov and Rooney was pushed wider and further back until 2010/2011 when he was given the nod to actually lead the line full time.

It’s a very comparable situation. In his first 5 or 6 years at the club it was very rare he had an extended stretch leading the line as the main CF.
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It's not really comparable, Rooney was a key player, playing in his best and preferred position from the get go, albeit he was a massive talent at the time,

Rashford is playing left wing the majority of time and never given a consistent run of games, he's always in and out and always subbed on or off.
 
Pexbo said:
When Rooney arrived, Van Nistelrooy was up front and Rooney played a free role behind him. He wasn’t a centre forward by any stretch.

After Ruud left, when fit, Saha lead the line and Rooney again played in behind and started picking up wider positions. He occasionally got to lead the line when Saha was out but it wasn’t his main role.

The following season saw Rooney playing wider with Ronaldo having the licence to attack the box.

In the following years we bought Tevez and then Berbatov and Rooney was pushed wider and further back until 2010/2011 when he was given the nod to actually lead the line full time.

It’s a very comparable situation. In his first 5 or 6 years at the club it was very rare he had an extended stretch leading the line as the main CF.
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And how amazing was he at it... until that stupid injury. Urgh
 
Pexbo said:
Cool story!

Sturridge left Chelsea for Liverpool in January 2013.

Mourinho rejoined Chelsea in June 2013.

You basically made up a load of shite because it fit your agenda.
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Ya, can confirm that's all correct. He was a very young lad when Jose was at Chelsea first time round, had barely got 4 apps.

Rashford is a problem really as it would require Lukaku having a fairly long term injury for Rashford to have a chance to get a string of games at CF and prove whether he's fit for the job. Lukaku will never be benched for him and therefore he's pretty much destined to be a Left Wing option for the foreseeable future. I still think for his sake he should be considering a loan/full time move if he really does want to pursue a CF position. But he's 20 so still got plenty of time on his side, but he's missing out on a lot of playing experience (as a CF) if he sticks it out.
 
RedSky said:
Ya, can confirm that's all correct. He was a very young lad when Jose was at Chelsea first time round, had barely got 4 apps.

Rashford is a problem really as it would require Lukaku having a fairly long term injury for Rashford to have a chance to get a string of games at CF and prove whether he's fit for the job. Lukaku will never be benched for him and therefore he's pretty much destined to be a Left Wing option for the foreseeable future. I still think for his sake he should be considering a loan/full time move if he really does want to pursue a CF position. But he's 20 so still got plenty of time on his side, but he's missing out on a lot of playing experience (as a CF) if he sticks it out.
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It would be great if for the last 20 mins he could play CF and Lukaku subbed, or even if its in cup games etc. The issue is Lukaku always seems to play same as what happened with Ibra. The guy just needs minutes, maybe a loan would be better for him, but it doesn't suit us.
 
Pexbo said:
Cool story!

Sturridge first signed for Chelsea in 2009.
Mourinho first left Chelsea in 2007.

Sturridge left Chelsea for Liverpool in January 2013.
Mourinho rejoined Chelsea in June 2013.


You basically made up a load of shite because it fit your agenda.
Click to expand...

:lol:
 
Cassidy said:
It would be great if for the last 20 mins he could play CF and Lukaku subbed, or even if its in cup games etc. The issue is Lukaku always seems to play same as what happened with Ibra. The guy just needs minutes, maybe a loan would be better for him, but it doesn't suit us.
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In an ideal world there would be more rotation and we'd use Lukaku/Rashford depending on the opponents. But that never happens so we can forget that dream. The other question is whether Rashford would be happy with 20min appearances every other game and how much does that actually help him develop? Part of the deal of being a CF is handling the pressure of being the main goalscorer for the entire season. Morata imo is a very good example of this, he never had that experience at Madrid/Juventus as he was a rotation option (similar to your request with Rashford). Morata then moves to a club where he's the main man and he crumbles under the pressure of having the burden of responsibility.

There's no real easy answer imo (using the current formation). I know people will point out that he's a young lad (soon to be 21), but the Lukaku obstacle isn't going to suddenly disappear.

Personally, i'd move to a formation with 2 upfront. Then buy all future personal to fit that formation (3-5-2). Granted we'd be pretty much killing any hope Martial has of getting game time (he's end up being a CF rotation option). But at least Rashford/Martial would be fighting for a CF position rather than a Left Wing position. I don't think we have the personal to use this formation right now though.
 
I love Marcus but is he capable of leading our line? I think not. He must stay and prove his worth. Hes an amazing prospect but he hasn't delivered yet.
 
Pexbo said:
Cool story!

Sturridge first signed for Chelsea in 2009.
Mourinho first left Chelsea in 2007.

Sturridge left Chelsea for Liverpool in January 2013.
Mourinho rejoined Chelsea in June 2013.


You basically made up a load of shite because it fit your agenda.
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:lol:

Not being used as a #9 until he was 25 years old really hindered RVP's development too didn't it? One could almost say it was the reason he ultimately never excelled in that position.
 
Henrik Larsson said:
:lol:

Not being used as a #9 until he was 25 years old really hindered RVP's development too didn't it? One could almost say it was the reason he ultimately never excelled in that position.
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RVP wasn't a CF until late, thats a bit different. Rashford is clearly not a good winger
 
RedSky said:
In an ideal world there would be more rotation and we'd use Lukaku/Rashford depending on the opponents. But that never happens so we can forget that dream. The other question is whether Rashford would be happy with 20min appearances every other game and how much does that actually help him develop? Part of the deal of being a CF is handling the pressure of being the main goalscorer for the entire season. Morata imo is a very good example of this, he never had that experience at Madrid/Juventus as he was a rotation option (similar to your request with Rashford). Morata then moves to a club where he's the main man and he crumbles under the pressure of having the burden of responsibility.

There's no real easy answer imo (using the current formation). I know people will point out that he's a young lad (soon to be 21), but the Lukaku obstacle isn't going to suddenly disappear.

Personally, i'd move to a formation with 2 upfront. Then buy all future personal to fit that formation (3-5-2). Granted we'd be pretty much killing any hope Martial has of getting game time (he's end up being a CF rotation option). But at least Rashford/Martial would be fighting for a CF position rather than a Left Wing position. I don't think we have the personal to use this formation right now though.
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Id also prefer a front 2, but I just don't see it happening. It to me was the obvious thing to do given the make up of our squad for the past 3 years.
Not enough wingers, too many strikers and 10s etc. But we still need the fullbacks/wingbacks for that
 




Redknapp, Thompson, Carragher all desperate for him to leave. If Rash was in the Pool squad instead of Shaqiri and playing second-fiddle to Salah/Firmino/Mane they'd all be singing Klopp's praises and how Rash needs to stay in dipperland forever. Feck off you scouse cnuts.
 
Don't understand why people are discussing this. I think it's fairly safe to say that Jamie Redknapp is wrong about everything, and since he was the one that first said it, the case is closed.
 
Cassidy said:
RVP wasn't a CF until late, thats a bit different. Rashford is clearly not a good winger
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Yeah let's ignore the fact that Rashford scored a brace against fecking Liverpool while playing from the left wing in March, and continue taking cheap shots at Mourinho. Am I doing this right?
 
Media: "Nothing new to invent things about United, so let's re-open the talk about how Rashford should leave them"
 
You need to be a very special player to lead the line at 20. It's also far from obvious going to a lower placed club for easier playing time is the right decision. Sometimes you can come back as a top top striker, or (more often) you end up at Everton, Stoke and West Ham for the remainder of your career.
 
Cassidy said:
Id also prefer a front 2, but I just don't see it happening. It to me was the obvious thing to do given the make up of our squad for the past 3 years.
Not enough wingers, too many strikers and 10s etc. But we still need the fullbacks/wingbacks for that
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The problem would also be that we'd have too many midfield options: Pogba, Matic, Herrera, Fellaini, Lingard, Pereira, Fred, Mata.
CF Options: Sanchez, Lukaku, Martial, Rashford

You could bin off 2/3 midfield options and finance some wingbacks. You'd probably need a few given Valencia and Youngs age. Then consider our CB options aren't exactly thrilling... it also would be a pretty decent sell to the board given the whole reason for changing formation is to give Rashford/Martial more time as CFs. I seem to recall there were rumours in the media during the Summer that Jose was looking at changing formation, that would also fit with him looking at CB and LWB positions.
 
Henrik Larsson said:
Yeah let's ignore the fact that Rashford scored a brace against fecking Liverpool while playing from the left wing in March, and continue taking cheap shots at Mourinho. Am I doing this right?
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If you read my post you would see it wasn't a shot at Jose. Stop being defensive about Jose, and riding on a mistake which was made, and avoiding the issue at hand. My issue is that Rashford needs to be play as a CF if he wants to become a top one. Bringup up one off players like RVP doesn't negate the fact that it doesn't happen often, it is not the norm, the thing is RVP was always a midfielder, he was converted to CF at Arsenal.

We have a dearth of strikers bring produced globally and that because young strikers these days just cant get the games at CF obviously this was made worse by moving to 1 striker formations as well. We need to stop this shoving strikers to the wing because they have pace because it isn't good long term.

Playing out wide and getting minutes is cool, as long as he is also getting enough minutes through the middle to develop the parts of his game which are being said not be good enough to lead the line. If he doens't he will never be good enough to lead the line.

Now he is only 20 so he has time, a loan actually would be great for him, but as I said previously we actually need him in the squad. So probably the best thing to do is to play 2 up top, or rotate him with Lukaku even if that means he starts out wide, he needs the minutes through the middle to develop.
 
RedSky said:
The problem would also be that we'd have too many midfield options: Pogba, Matic, Herrera, Fellaini, Lingard, Pereira, Fred, Mata.
CF Options: Sanchez, Lukaku, Martial, Rashford

You could bin off 2/3 midfield options and finance some wingbacks. You'd probably need a few given Valencia and Youngs age. Then consider our CB options aren't exactly thrilling... it also would be a pretty decent sell to the board given the whole reason for changing formation is to give Rashford/Martial more time as CFs. I seem to recall there were rumours in the media during the Summer that Jose was looking at changing formation, that would also fit with him looking at CB and LWB positions.
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Yes I agree, its just about how we manage the squad, its really unbalanced when you look at it from either formation
 
Samid said:




Redknapp, Thompson, Carragher all desperate for him to leave. If Rash was in the Pool squad instead of Shaqiri and playing second-fiddle to Salah/Firmino/Mane they'd all be singing Klopp's praises and how Rash needs to stay in dipperland forever. Feck off you scouse cnuts.
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Spot on!
 
Samid said:
Redknapp, Thompson, Carragher all desperate for him to leave. If Rash was in the Pool squad instead of Shaqiri and playing second-fiddle to Salah/Firmino/Mane they'd all be singing Klopp's praises and how Rash needs to stay in dipperland forever. Feck off you scouse cnuts.
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Very true
 
I do feel he needs more minutes playing upfront than he will get at United.

For his development, a loan move would be best.

Even when he is given a go upfront, we don't really play the football that suits him at all
 
Cassidy said:
the norm, the thing is RVP was always a midfielder, he was converted to CF at Arsenal.
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What? Hell no! :lol:

Anyway I think with Rashford it’s clear he needs a bit of space whether he’s playing from the wing or as a striker. He’s rapid as feck, decent dribbling, but not as naturally refined a dribbler as someone like Martial. He did really well against a Liverpool that tried to press up high, conversely he tends to have more difficulties when teams are dropping deep and defending with all they have and leaving no space, like so many teams do against us. Regardless of which position he plays from.

If he keeps on getting 80% of the gametime he’s been getting in the last two years his development will be fine I think.
 
Rashford & Martial have the ability tomake chances themselves - so using both to replace a 16 goal striker like Lukaku who needs the whole team to supply is not at all a bad idea - in fact it's the best idea.
 
Carragher is only saying what most people think. As long as we have Lukaku Rashford would always play second fiddle.
 
How about all the Liverpool pundits discuss their own clubs inability to create and develop their own first team players from within? Bar the emergence of TAA they have a truly awful record of homegrown players. They should be ashamed.
 
Henrik Larsson said:
What? Hell no! :lol:

Anyway I think with Rashford it’s clear he needs a bit of space whether he’s playing from the wing or as a striker. He’s rapid as feck, decent dribbling, but not as naturally refined a dribbler as someone like Martial. He did really well against a Liverpool that tried to press up high, conversely he tends to have more difficulties when teams are dropping deep and defending with all they have leaving no space, like so many teams do against us. Regardless of which position he plays from.

If he keeps on getting 80% of the gametime he’s been getting in the last two years his development will be fine I think.
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RVP played mostly left wing (which is midfield), he was converted central as a 10 and then became a striker at Arsenal.

Anyway regarding Rashford, one of the things that LVG drilled into him was being in and around the box, when you watch him now he is usually very far away from it. Movement in those areas and ability to operate in those areas will define is he makes it as a top CF. The other parts will be additions to his game, but if he wants to be a prolific striker he needs to really develop his game in that area. Maybe he is destined to be a wide man, but to me he isn't a good enough dribbler or passer for that matter.

Like I said though there is no issue with him playing wide, as long as he also gets the development time through the middle. I don't doubt he can do a job out wide at times (he really isn't great there) but he has his moments, but the discussion here is him becoming a top class striker and what he needs to do to become one.
 
Cassidy said:
RVP wasn't a CF until late, thats a bit different. Rashford is clearly not a good winger
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Rashford is a better winger than he is a sole striker. He's consistently terrible when played up front by himself, pretty much unable to do anything other than to keep running in behind and trying to outpace the defenders. He's got no ability at all to hold the ball up, and not only does he not win any aerial challenges when we've played the ball up to him, he doesn't even make it difficult for the defenders to win them. As such he makes it almost impossible to alleviate pressure when the opposition are on top, as they easily win the ball back every time we try to clear it.

If we played a two man strikeforce that would probably be a different story, and likely would be his strongest position, but we (and the majority of teams these days) don't use two strikers. 3-5-2 is the only possible option I can see.

On the wing he's inconsistent, but at least he does have some good matches.
 
MadDogg said:
Rashford is a better winger than he is a sole striker. He's consistently terrible when played up front by himself, pretty much unable to do anything other than to keep running in behind and trying to outpace the defenders. He's got no ability at all to hold the ball up, and not only does he not win any aerial challenges when we've played the ball up to him, he doesn't even make it difficult for the defenders to win them. As such he makes it almost impossible to alleviate pressure when the opposition are on top, as they easily win the ball back every time we try to clear it.

If we played a two man strikeforce that would probably be a different story, and likely would be his strongest position, but we (and the majority of teams these days) don't use two strikers. 3-5-2 is the only possible option I can see.

On the wing he's inconsistent, but at least he does have some good matches.
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You're pretty much confirming the points i have been making.

1. He has a lot to develop if he wants to play as a striker and be a top one
2. He doesn't have the tools to do it for the way we currently play (I think he could do it at some clubs)
3. A 2 striker system would suit him best here
4. If he wants to play as a striker kong term he needs to develop his game there. So either:

- We play 2 strikers (so he can develop his weaknesses as a striker)
- We play him wide but also give him enough minutes centrally (a lot more than we currently do)
- He goes on loan somewhere where he can play through the middle every week and develop his game

The other option is that he accepts he can't play as a striker and he becomes a wide man. TBH though I think he can develop as a striker, whether he will become a top class one though is up for debate.
 
Aloysius's Back 3 said:
Rashford & Martial have the ability tomake chances themselves - so using both to replace a 16 goal striker like Lukaku who needs the whole team to supply is not at all a bad idea - in fact it's the best idea.
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He is not a 16 goal striker, and Lukaku can also make his own goals
 
Samid said:




Redknapp, Thompson, Carragher all desperate for him to leave. If Rash was in the Pool squad instead of Shaqiri and playing second-fiddle to Salah/Firmino/Mane they'd all be singing Klopp's praises and how Rash needs to stay in dipperland forever. Feck off you scouse cnuts.
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We should just add this to the thread title.
 
Cassidy said:
He is not a 16 goal striker, and Lukaku can also make his own goals
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He is played mostly as a target man which puts him at the centre of our play - and our play is therefore very disjointed, very inaccurate.

If we continue to play with a target man - then Lukaku is the best as both Rashford & Martial have played under Jose and struggle playing deep, struggle to play with their back towards goal.

Play them in partnership - they have the ability to dribble & take on central defenders on both sides, able to make quick short passes to each other, able to drift wide which would help a false 9 type Am like Lingard or Sanchez. Instead we go with a left winger who is made to cross for lukaku at every ball, and a right winger that does not even exist & continues to be Mata or Lingard.
 
Aloysius's Back 3 said:
He is played mostly as a target man which puts him at the centre of our play - and our play is therefore very disjointed, very inaccurate.

If we continue to play with a target man - then Lukaku is the best as both Rashford & Martial have played under Jose and struggle playing deep, struggle to play with their back towards goal.

Play them in partnership - they have the ability to dribble & take on central defenders on both sides, able to make quick short passes to each other, able to drift wide which would help a false 9 type Am like Lingard or Sanchez. Instead we go with a left winger who is made to cross for lukaku at every ball, and a right winger that does not even exist & continues to be Mata or Lingard.
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The point I am making is that Lukaku also has those abilities, in fact Lukaku isn't really a good target man. Anyway lets not digress. My personal opinion is we should be playing Lukaku Rashford/Martial front 2
 
El Zoido said:
Is he ever going to develop the goalscoring prowess for a club intent on winning the highest honours? I just don’t think he’s got it. You can usually tell from a young age if a player is going to be a 25-30 goal a season striker (which is what we require), Rashford has never looked like that player.
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then you get Harry Kane, when watching him on loan at some of the lower league clubs many thought he would be lucky to play in the premiership on a consistent level. until Rashford gets a constant run as the CF then I think its hard to judge him. also not sure Jose system suits him either. he might be a Vardy type player where he seems to always do better against the bigger teams when there is more space in behind. looking at the games he scored its came v the likes of Arsenal, Liverpool, City and Chelsea over the years.
 
EASTSIDE777 said:
Carragher is only saying what most people think. As long as we have Lukaku Rashford would always play second fiddle.
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Exactly. Just because its coming from Liverpool pundits it doesn't make it any less true.
 
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