Thanks for the debate!
Brexited | the worst threads live the longest
- Thread starter Silva
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Tbh, I think leaving (especially in the chaotic manner we're going to leave) is far more likely to tear the country apart than not, but we'll see.
You've said 'it depends', in what scenario could you envisage yourself becoming a Remainer?
What is there to debate? If you honestly think that Boris would be a good PM and would do a good job at BREXIT negotiations then I don't know what to say. You and I are from totally different planets.
The EU hold all the cards and have had a clear strategy from the start - you are talking utter nonsense. What's depressing is that you are happy to spread this ill-informed dirge to people in Canada who won't know any better.
Ironically he's got me on ignore because he's lost every single debate he's had with me
What would the ideal Brexit under Boris look like for you?
I'm sure they are rubbing their hands at the thought of no flights between Europe and the uk. currently there are no flight schedules on the popular airline sites to Europe after march 2019. To think that an agreement wont be done is madness.
And yet here we are past the original deadline with nothing on the cards.
I'm glad you are so confident because I have seen absolutely nothing to suggest that a deal is on the cards.
Well if Barnacle is to be believed 80% was sorted, we are just not privy to what that 80% covers.
75% was supposedly sorted last December and 80% was supposedly sorted last April so not a lot of progress since.
Do you know whats in that 80%?
I knew what was in the 75% and I'm sure if I looked it up I could find the other 5% .
One thing for sure is that the Irish border is not in it.
Edit:
The agreement is only about citizens rights, the Irish border, and the settlement bill.
Depending on what May caves in on will decide what access the UK gets after they leave.
People seem to be expecting some sort of trade deal for some unknown reason. That comes afterwards.
Last edited:
Part of my job is negotiating with governments.... So yeah I'm pretty relaxed about it... It's standard negotiating stuff
What are you relaxed about exactly
That there will be a big last minute kerfuffle and demands made to get the deal ratified by the 27 (if there is a deal... Which isn't certain at all)
Eh.. so you are relaxed because there will be a 'big last minute kerfuffle' to make the final demands and then a deal (which there might not be) might get ratified? This is why you are relaxed? Can't say I'm overly sold on that. Was that meant to reassure us?
Meh... It's just negotiations... It's gonna go to the wire.
I run an international business... The ramifications are huge for me but no point in wasting energy or worrying just deal with the facts when they become clear
err I haven't. fake news mateIronically he's got me on ignore because he's lost every single debate he's had with me
ya ya, all the same (not).
Didn't some Belgium town bemusingly hold up the entire EU/Canada deal?
It's great on a Digestive.
Not exactly, Belgium are divided in three, each regions have a parliament and a say in certain domain like economy, agriculture and environment. Wallonia blocked the deal because they justifiably wanted clearer protections for EU agriculture, and environment.
My point is, can this not happen (perhaps by more regions) for the UK deal? It’s so much more emotive for Europeans, I’m guessing.
This has nothing to do with emotions. If the deal doesn't suit one of the member states then they can reject it, it's as simple as that.
Yes... And I think it's almost inevitable something similar could happen... But if it does they will extend article 50 by a few weeks whilst the EU sorts it out...(if they agree a deal)
This is only based on my own experience of negotiation with UK Dutch German Italian French Belgian and Spanish government's (and around 60 others outside the eu)and given the deals amount to only aFew billion it's small fry in comparison to this deal but translating that experience I think to the question that I was originally asked
Yes I believe even once a deal in principle is agreed it has to be ratified by 27 natiins
Yes I believe that process could (probably will )become a bit of a political football
But that does not concern me mutch as if a main deal is agreed I think the other Parts will ultimately fall into place with sufficient brinkmanship and politiking
I have to say I am Not certain about that... Done things have together unanimous (I think this does but I'm not 100% sure) and some are by certain majorities
What are you trying to say? I said "member states", I didn't mention the process for each country since they don't have the same.
I was talking about the 27 states ratification process and as I say I believe all 27 have to...or no deal... I'm just saying I'm not 100% sure That's the case (I've heard it is but never looked into it in detail)
yeah and what will happen with the Irish border?
Honestly I have no idea... If they agree a deal then very little... If they don't then I'd guess some infrastructure... Some checks and a whole bunch of ramifications
I actually quoted a job in Ireland last week and it had about 1 page of assumptions attached saying prices based on current trading conditions but... Work permits... Recognition of qualifications... Transport prices... Tariffs... Paperwork... Insurances etc all subject to change
I was in Whitehall last week and to say the area around the ni office was frenzied would be an understatement so if those guys dont know I sure as hell don't
If there is a deal (and at this point it is very much an if) my experience of negotiating things makes me think it will go down to the wire
I wanted us to remain... I still do... If we have to leave I certainly hope we do so with a deal
Right now I'd put the odds about 60/40 on there being no deal mostly influenced by the inability to find a workable compromise for all parties On ireland... Still I remain hopeful they figure something out
That said I stand by my thoughts that if somehow they do find a deal there will be plenty of side agendas to get it ratified in all the countries parliament's however I think (again last minute) they would get that over the line (or move the line)
Gut feel though no deal and lots of finger ppinting
I don't see the problem of the 27 members agreeing , after all Barnier is taking the instructions from them.
Do they agree Citizens rights - why shouldn't they?
Do they agree the amount or the construct of the settlement bill, already agreed.
Only real issue is the Irish border, why would the 27 disagree on this. The UK leaves the CU they break the GFA.
Thus the only fly in the ointment is the UK.
If the UK hadn't wasted over 2 years posturing about cherry picking, talks would have been so much further forward regarding trade and the thousands of other points. The transition period was there to give even more time to further those talks but the UK government seem to have blown everything by arguing amongst themselves since the referendum to not only have no deal but no transition period either. Unbelievable.
Do they agree Citizens rights - why shouldn't they?
Do they agree the amount or the construct of the settlement bill, already agreed.
Only real issue is the Irish border, why would the 27 disagree on this. The UK leaves the CU they break the GFA.
Thus the only fly in the ointment is the UK.
If the UK hadn't wasted over 2 years posturing about cherry picking, talks would have been so much further forward regarding trade and the thousands of other points. The transition period was there to give even more time to further those talks but the UK government seem to have blown everything by arguing amongst themselves since the referendum to not only have no deal but no transition period either. Unbelievable.
Last edited:
Yes Wallonia, then they got a visit from Martin Schulz of Germany and changed their minds, although Germany don't run the show it must have been coincidence.
It's worth mentioning that Martin Schulz was the president of the European Parliament.
It's worth mentioning he is from Germany. I wonder what he said, any idea?
It's not really worth it, they met Tusk too and I don't see you claim that Poland are ruling the world.
Edit: And he didn't tell them much, they asked for a legally binding legal act that they obtained.
If theres a border there will be bombs.
Every member state have to ratify it but it's generally not an issue, Belgium is typically a country where it can be because the regions aren't directly involved in the preliminary negotiations, they are at the end of the process which is a good thing for Belgian democracy but not necessarily practical in supranational organization. Personally I kind of like the fact that ratifications aren't formalities, all national parliaments should have the same right.
Do you remember the 3 countries that disagreed with Junk( Tax haven king of Europe )being appointed? All had a meeting merkle and 2 caved, she's German by the way.