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Do you think there will be a Deal or No Deal?

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For all of those suggesting that the Republic of Ireland needs to help out Brexit by capitulating in some way, or that Brexit is in Irelands best interest as well - can I point you in the direction of this...



 
Brexit planning / strategy meeting at work today...
My European colleagues have come to the conclusion we are mad...
Having gamed through numerous scenarios that we see as likley I think they are right...
 
Not sure if its Brexit related but... Seems this Labour shadow chancellor has all but guaranteed Labour won't be winning the next election with his talk of dismantling British capitalism. 10% of businesses to be given to workers... I guess it also means definitely no second vote under Labour too.
 
Green_Red said:
Not sure if its Brexit related but... Seems this Labour shadow chancellor has all but guaranteed Labour won't be winning the next election with his talk of dismantling British capitalism. 10% of businesses to be given to workers... I guess it also means definitely no second vote under Labour too.
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Why is giving workers equity in the company they help to build a bad thing and a dismantling of capitalism :wenger:

Many large corporations already do that!
 
Green_Red said:
Not sure if its Brexit related but... Seems this Labour shadow chancellor has all but guaranteed Labour won't be winning the next election with his talk of dismantling British capitalism. 10% of businesses to be given to workers... I guess it also means definitely no second vote under Labour too.
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Ultimate Grib said:
Why is giving workers equity in the company they help to build a bad thing and a dismantling of capitalism :wenger:

Many large corporations already do that!
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It's only FTSE 250 companies that would be affected.

Whys it bad? You're already looking down the barrel of hard Brexit, now a party are going to force businesses into stripping 10% from private investors... How's that good?
 
dogrob said:
What I said the workers to get an annual bonus of five hundred pounds and the rest going to the Government.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ancial-rewards-bonuses-hundreds-a8551331.html

The workers getting something is a good idea but the largest amount would be taken by the Government.
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Dunno if it's how the piece is written, but a lot questions remain. How are the workers going to run this common fund? Do they get actual equity or just a payout linked to the share price performance?

If they do get shares, who is being forced to give them up or is everyone just diluted? What if the shares tank - no bonus? What is the tax treatment?

What if the company is structured as an LLP? Why the arbitary 250 employee number?

It's the idea of someone who is trying to champion workers' rights, but with no knowledge of how shares and markets work. Plus if it whacks the stock market, then that hits everyone's pension.
 
Green_Red said:
It's only FTSE 250 companies that would be affected.

Whys it bad? You're already looking down the barrel of hard Brexit, now a party are going to force businesses into stripping 10% from private investors... How's that good?
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They're plan is to see Brexit through, go on an unprecedented spree of public spending to renationalise many industries whilst making foreign investment extremely unappealing.

What can go wrong?
 
Jippy said:
Dunno if it's how the piece is written, but a lot questions remain. How are the workers going to run this common fund? Do they get actual equity or just a payout linked to the share price performance?

If they do get shares, who is being forced to give them up or is everyone just diluted? What if the shares tank - no bonus? What is the tax treatment?

What if the company is structured as an LLP? Why the arbitary 250 employee number?

It's the idea of someone who is trying to champion workers' rights, but with no knowledge of how shares and markets work. Plus if it whacks the stock market, then that hits everyone's pension.
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If foreign companies are not included, does this not give companies even more impetus to leave in the event of Brexit and a Labour government?
 
Classical Mechanic said:
If foreign companies are not included, does this not give companies even more impetus to leave in the event of Brexit and a Labour government?
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I guess you get shares in say Nissan's UK subsidiary? Plus if a company is told to a £500 bonus every year, they'll start giving out £500 lower pay rises annually too.
 
Jippy said:
I guess you get shares in say Nissan's UK subsidiary? Plus if a company is told to a £500 bonus every year, they'll start giving out £500 lower pay rises annually too.
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I dunno, in France there's a law that companies have to give a capped portion of any profits made to staff, and my company give it despite also paying a totally voluntary bonus system. Once you make something a law, companies don't always go out their way to wring every last penny back.
 
It's nothing but a guesstimate form an Independent writer on how things will work rather than what McDonnell is actually yet to say. There's many hurdles from an idea to actual policy. The baseline of the idea is to give workers a bonus as company increases in value which is not a bad idea and certainly not a dismantling of capitalism!
 
buchansleftleg said:
The EU has introduced far more for workers rights than UK government and the UK labour movement have done. The UK labour movement largely focused on big wage increases for certain high profile, predominantly male roles and left women largely to go swing. Meanwhile Unions in places like Germany took a more responsible position, gradually looking to gain a place on the board, help support their workers and actually help make the company perform better too.

These German unions showed that having an engaged union partnership with a business was actually a great thing and helped spur on the EU to write a lot of what they did into law for everyone else. Sadly the UK Labour movement is still largely stuck in the past with McDonnell going on about protecting workers picketing at "factory gates".

If you in one of those predominantly male roles the Unions liked to champion like say a "binman" then you would undoubtedly be unhappy with the EU as (due to equal pay legislation) you have lost lots of weird and wonderful bonuses that you won through endless disputes and strike actions. If however you are a worker in a less militant area such as engineering or service industry, or female then the EU has helped you tremendously, far more than Unions have done.
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Cheers for that.
 
Ultimate Grib said:
It's nothing but a guesstimate form an Independent writer on how things will work rather than what McDonnell is actually yet to say. There's many hurdles from an idea to actual policy. The baseline of the idea is to give workers a bonus as company increases in value which is not a bad idea and certainly not a dismantling of capitalism!
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They've probably been the speech. That's common and why you see 'is expected to say'.
It's not dismantling capitalism clearly - it does raise a lot of questions though. As @Kentonio some companies already go above and beyond this anyway. However, impose that on struggling retailers and it will be a job loser.
 
RedChip said:
According to a poll overseen by John Curtice, the majority of Brits will likely blame the EU if, as many expect, Brexit is a catastrophe. John Foreigner is obviously intent to screw this up for us. Not that we screwed ourselves. Guess a little bit of deflection may help us not kill each other.
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You mean the majority of Brexiteers. I for one never expected Brexit to end well and blame all those who voted for it for the outcome. The EU are only looking out for their future.
 
buchansleftleg said:
I'm not sure he's competent enough to manage that. He actually believes Brexit will create a socialist uprising.

Given that the EU did more to improve working conditions than the UK unions ever managed to achieve it's quite amazing that the unions seem so keen to throw that progress away.
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While we are in the EU we don't need them. European law protects us.
 
Stanley Road said:
Does it not disappoint you that so few people voted lib dem at the last election? Obviously no one really had brexit as high on their priority list as you did. What makes you think a new ref, or 3rd or 4th ref will deliver what you want?
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No one trusts the Lib Dems to do what they say. They are quite happy to sell out the principles for a few seats in the cabinet.
 
Jippy said:
They've probably been the speech. That's common and why you see 'is expected to say'.
It's not dismantling capitalism clearly - it does raise a lot of questions though. As @Kentonio some companies already go above and beyond this anyway. However, impose that on struggling retailers and it will be a job loser.
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Yes but what I mean is that it is still a guesttimate on implementation. As an example Brexit was simple as an idea that Britain would just leave the European Union, but with nigh on impossible real world implementation.
 
Ultimate Grib said:
Why is giving workers equity in the company they help to build a bad thing and a dismantling of capitalism :wenger:

Many large corporations already do that!
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It's a cracking idea, incentive to help the company do well while helping yourself. how many people feel part of the companies they work for currently? I certainly don't.
 
Kentonio said:
Nope. If they chose they could get a referendum together very quickly. Other countries have in the past. It just requires political will.
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I feel like most of the country either voted remain, didn't vote or voted Brexit and have changed their minds now? Maybe I'm wrong but there's probably a fair few Brexit voters who assumed it'd be a more straight forward process than this.
 
Ultimate Grib said:
I personally think you’re overreacting. There will be no hard border even in the unlikely event of no deal. A bilateral agreement will ensure that even if the government will somehow manage to see us crash out of the EU. The CTA will be protected as it’s both in the interests of Britain and Ireland.
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I am certainly not overreacting. I dont know where you are from but where I am from and the noises im hearing its not an overreaction at all.
 
buchansleftleg said:
It won't be the IRA that starts being violent, it will be loyalist paramilitaries. There are very well established links between NI loyalists and UK hard right groups.

In the event of a No deal brexit the level of anti-immigrant feeling is going to be very strong and you can expect groups like EDL to feel emboldened and create disturbances in places like Oldham, Bradford, London etc.

In Northern Ireland in the event of a no deal brexit the border between the republic and NI will become a massive issue. At the height of the troubles, with full army and special forces involvement the UK government could not control the border. It will be a massive free-for all of Human trafficking, drugs, high value produce and the criminal gangs that hide behind political ideology on both sides will be heavily involved. Inevitably a turf war will start and could escalate horribly quickly. The DUP will massively over-react to this and call for either more money, or direct policing support which would be disastrous. Even using UK border force would be controversial in the area, god forbid they ask the army!

Remember that events in NI can quickly spiral out of control. The initial British Army involvement in the 70's was to protect Irish catholic families from being fired out of their homes by loyalist mobs, but the presence of British forces on the streets created more problems.

I think this from Stephen Pound is quite telling

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It will be both.

Stephen Pound hit the nail on the head there.
 
buchansleftleg said:
In the event of a No deal brexit the level of anti-immigrant feeling is going to be very strong and you can expect groups like EDL to feel emboldened and create disturbances in places like Oldham, Bradford, London etc.8[/MEDIA]
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A no deal Brexit i.e. a hard Brexit?

I work in Oldham and I just don't get any feeling like that. People are not that arsed about Brexit and are getting on with their lives from the interactions I have. Its pretty much like it isn't even happening.
 
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