I think there are two things missing here: Power imbalance and agency.
Rape Discussion
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I think there are two things missing here: Power imbalance and agency.
Good thing we have you here to tell two consensual parties they've been involved in a rape then
If you're drunk to the point you can't consent, it can't be consensual.
The girl from the tweet said "wait for the girl to get drunk", this implies that a man knows she won't have sex with him unless she's drunk.
Surely you see a crime here.
maybe the young lady was right about men being unwilling to admit that their sexual behaviour might in some way be wrong
Man gets hella drunk and can't believe his luck when a girl wants to have sex with him, he was probably going to go home and have a wank instead. He goes home, has drunk sex, wakes up with a foggy memory but looks to his right and thinks to himself "Hell yeah, I got laid". Silva is here to tell you wipe that satisfied smirk off your face, you've been raped.
Man gets hella drunk and can't believe his luck when a girl wants to have sex with him, he was probably going to go home and have a wank instead. He goes home, has drunk sex, wakes up with a foggy memory but looks to his right and thinks to himself "Hell yeah, I got laid". Silva is here to tell you wipe that satisfied smirk off your face, you've been raped.
How to have consensual sex as a woman: have sex with anyone, at any time, in any circumstances.
How to have consensual sex as a man: yes means yes, no means no, yes can also mean no. A no could lead to a yes but might still be a no. Was she drunk? Did she change her mind half way? Did you fail to read visual clues?
Yeah no shit men doubt rape claims. But of course it's gotta be cause we harbour some guilt about a rape we're trying to deny right
well at least now we've solved the first problem you raised: mens rape claims aren't believed because of thundercunts like you
What is your brain falling to comprehend? If the man wants to pull out but is forced to continue then obviously that constitutes rape. Any break in consent falls within the definition. I love how people who seem to struggle to comprehend the concept make light of the situation by drawing up absurd scenarios to further confuse themselves and make the possibility of rape seem very implausible.
I see you don't realize I was proving how ridiculous it is to create a specific narrative to prove a point.
But yeah, now accuse me of being responsible for mens rape claims not being taken seriously because I made a hypothetical to take the piss out of you
Now I'm actually done though, good night
Except you seem to have completely cocked up both the example and the logic. If the man wanted to have sex, how on earth would it constitute rape? If he didn't want to have sex with her but did so whilst being bereft of any decision making power, then it could constitute rape given the act was against his will.
Man gets hella drunk and can't believe his luck when a girl wants to have sex with him, he was probably going to go home and have a wank instead. He goes home, has drunk sex, wakes up with a foggy memory but looks to his right and thinks to himself "Hell yeah, I got laid". Silva is here to tell you wipe that satisfied smirk off your face, you've been raped.
all you're proving is your overwhelming backwardnessI see you don't realize I was proving how ridiculous it is to create a specific narrative to prove a point.
But yeah, now accuse me of being responsible for mens rape claims not being taken seriously because I made a hypothetical to take the piss out of you
Now I'm actually done though, good night
actually it's worse than that: he's claiming that the despite the woman waiting until he was unable to consent - he still consented
it's straight forward rape apologism
Well that's the point isn't it? Silva is arguing if he was drunk and consented it doesn't count cause she is sober.
I just had to clarify that. Now I'm really done
I was just illustrating the kind of situation the author of the tweets that sparked the discussion was referring to.
And there are definitely a breed of men who have listened too much to PUAs and idiots on Reddit, who think all girls say no at first, to avoid looking like a slut. They think persistence will always pay off.
If you wait for someone to get blitzed to before trying to get them to come home with you, you're a skeevy person and and probably a rapist. You're waiting for alcohol to lower someone's inhibitions and weaken their judgement in order to take advantage of them. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.
A person can appear to give consent, while drunk enough not to be able to give informed consent.Well that's the point isn't it? Silva is arguing if he was drunk and consented it doesn't count cause she is sober.
I just had to clarify that. Now I'm really done
definitely a rapist, it is also textbook sexually predatory behaviour and extremely traumatic for victims
I went with probably, because I opened up for the possibility of them failing at getting the drunk girl to go home with them. Then again, they've probably done it before, and will likely do it again. So yeah, definitely a rapist.
Man gets hella drunk and can't believe his luck when a girl wants to have sex with him, he was probably going to go home and have a wank instead. He goes home, has drunk sex, wakes up with a foggy memory but looks to his right and thinks to himself "Hell yeah, I got laid". Silva is here to tell you wipe that satisfied smirk off your face, you've been raped.
I've been in the situation of being out of it drunk and having been taken home by a woman who then took advantage of me sexually. The one thing I can tell you for fecking certain is that I wasn't celebrating the next morning.
edit: maybe at some point I did say yes to it, I don't know, the point is that a yes in that state is meaningless.
I'll answer to you here to not derail the other thread any longer.
I'm sorry but what you are saying is mental. How is it horrible and stupid to point out that some women out there are crazy?! I'm very obviously not talking about all women ffs. You have to be very dim or contrary to not see that tbh. You're now just looking for things to be offended about.
Wow, just wow.
She is spot on and the proof is in every thread where this topic is debated.
Insulting another member
Wow you're dumb
How to have consensual sex as a woman: have sex with anyone, at any time, in any circumstances.
How to have consensual sex as a man: yes means yes, no means no, yes can also mean no. A no could lead to a yes but might still be a no. Was she drunk? Did she change her mind half way? Did you fail to read visual clues?
Yeah no shit men doubt rape claims. But of course it's gotta be cause we harbour some guilt about a rape we're trying to deny right
It's an emotive subject but please try to debate without insults.
Let's discuss this in here.
No, I don't have any sources but there are many videos just on youtube alone from deranged drama queens throwing accusations left right and center and I'm sure they're not the only ones out there. Especially seeing as they're the ones who posted it themselves to prove their case.
The 'Hugh Mungus' case or the one below are some that immediately spring to mind.
But like I said, I really don't have a horse in this race. Rape is a horrible thing and I hope that every rape victim comes forward with it as much as you do so that they can jail scum that do these things.
But destroying someone's life with false accusations is almost equally as bad imo. I don't know what the solution is either but this just shouldn't be overlooked imo.
Sorry to jump in here lads and you can correct me if I’m wrong, I remember being taught in one of those bullshit consent classes in school that only a man can commit rape (by the letter of the law) as by defintion rape involves the insertion of the penis?
I've been in situations where a woman has changed her mind when things were getting heated and I was easily able to respect that. I don't see why everybody else can't do so too.
you're equating false allegations of serious crimes to the far more common occurrence of serious crimes - the estimate of how often rape is reported is around 30% and lower depending on country, and the estimate of how many of those are unfounded is around 5%, give or take a couple - and that 5% will include withdrawn allegations of rapes that later turn out to have happened life this one.
you're using language that is and has historically been used to dismiss women, especially when they speak out about something
you're posting single interactions that people on youtube had as if it proves a wider point when it really doesn't
rape and attempted rape causes life long trauma and mental health problems, it's not even close to people thinking you're a rapist when you're not
Depends on the law of the state/province/country.
A woman could rape a man with a strap on or other implement.
A physically stronger woman could also potentially force a weaker man into sexual activity but obviously this is more rare based on averages. Or other situations like a women drugging a man with some cocktail of drugs that could remove conscious decision making but still leave a man physically able to perform (roofies spiked with viagra maybe).
In the US or France that's true but in the UK rape is defined by the use of a penis, now you would have to see if there are precedents that extend that definition.
Same. Happened earlier this year actually. I definitely didn't say yes to it and she was ploughing me with shots all night. But I don't see why anyone thinks it's useful to describe that as rape. On either side.
Looked it up there and the law here is that only a man can commit rape, maybe its different in England.
Rape (1) A person (A) commits an offence if— (a) he intentionally penetrates the vagina, anus or mouth of another person (B) with his penis, (b) B does not consent to the penetration, and (c) A does not reasonably believe that B consents.
no in a lot of countries it's impossible for women to be legally convicted of rape, the only thing that counts is PiV penetration and only when the men is the perp
it's an archaic law based on the idea that only heterosexuals exist and only men have sexual drive, so any act that should be rape but it's lesbians or the victim is male is prosecuted as sexual assault instead
On either side? So if a man gets a woman (who wouldn’t sleep with him sober) blind drunk and takes her home that shouldn’t constitue rape? It’s a difficult discussion tbh.
Shouldn't it be 'plying' in the hope that you'd then do the ploughing?
Ah, thanks for clarifying. Its probably true most countries need to update their laws here to reflect modern times.
Because guilty men go free?
It's like saying would you prefer a few innocent people to be stormed by the police when they're investigating terrorists, or would you prefer them to take no chances and make sure they get them. I think any reasonable person would prefer the second option.
The amount of innocents that get falsely accused is probably tiny compared to actual monsters who get away with it, and the idea of not being believed, or these sort of opinions that you and the poster quote, help to be responsible for that.
Would also need to update those talks we used to get in school about consent, we were put into a room and the man giving the talk seemed to assume that all teenage boys are rapists and that none of us knew forcing someone to have sex against their will is wrong.
I love when it's only valid when you do it. Maybe reddit is more legit?
I get that it's worse as they've been physically assaulted. But to say it's not even close is absurd aswell. Imagine being innocent and everyone thinking you're a rapist. How many friends and family do you think you'll lose? How easy will it be to ever find a new job. Your life is basically ruined for something you didn't commit.
Also what's the sentence for someone raping a person and what's the sentence for someone teying to ruin someone's life with false allegations? Those are not even close. People who get caught making false allegations should face jailtime aswell imo. Rape is horrible but so is trying to ruin someone's life.
Definitely. Ideas about rape, sexual assault have changed over the last 30 years. I just pointed out to an acquaintance of a friend that back in the 1980s there were even movies like Revenge of Nerds where the protagonist has sex with a girl because he puts on the costume of her boyfriend. She thinks its her boyfriend but its really the nerd who wants to have sex with her.
This is of course celebrated in the movie because boyfriend is a cnut and the nerd is the hero but it is literally glorifying a type of deceitful rape.
that was presented as a single example in response to your single example, it was not as your youtube video meant to prove a wider point - it's 5% by the way, 5% of rape claims are unfounded and of that 5% some are later found to have happened
it's not even half as bad, a false rape allegation can ruin someone's life - but it won't be anywhere near as drastic as you say, how many mothers believe their son is a rapist?
and more importantly it won't cause life long trauma nor the same level of mental health issues that rape victims will experience
In Spain there is a very famous case.
A group of guys from Sevilla raped a girl in the doorway of a building in San Fermín(a party), where I imagine there would be a lot of alcohol involved.
The boys had a WhatsApp group called "the pack/herd" and for what they discovered in the conversations they had similar episodes treating drunk women like shit.
The issue is that they have been sentenced to ten years, and they defend that she entered with them into the building after saying "that she could do It with 5". The trial was politicized a lot, with street demonstrations by feminist groups.
Days later a little-known newspaper leaked part of the statements in the trial as well as photos of the rape and the truth is that it made me doubt that she was raped.Personally I think the girl went ahead because they had stolen the phone and not so much for the rape itself.
What I want to say is that once the doubt is planted, it is very complicated to shake off that guilt.
A group of guys from Sevilla raped a girl in the doorway of a building in San Fermín(a party), where I imagine there would be a lot of alcohol involved.
The boys had a WhatsApp group called "the pack/herd" and for what they discovered in the conversations they had similar episodes treating drunk women like shit.
The issue is that they have been sentenced to ten years, and they defend that she entered with them into the building after saying "that she could do It with 5". The trial was politicized a lot, with street demonstrations by feminist groups.
Days later a little-known newspaper leaked part of the statements in the trial as well as photos of the rape and the truth is that it made me doubt that she was raped.Personally I think the girl went ahead because they had stolen the phone and not so much for the rape itself.
What I want to say is that once the doubt is planted, it is very complicated to shake off that guilt.
On a personal level if you didn't felt violated then don't define it as an assault but know that the law is on your side. Now from a collective standpoint we need to understand that people need to be protected, we can't give people the freedom to abuse others, so in the scenario that Silva provided where someone is purposefully waiting for the moment where a women or a men is piss drunk then you can understand that it's a predatory behavior that can't be accepted.