Shouldn't it be 'plying' in the hope that you'd then do the ploughing?
that's the one!
On either side? So if a man gets a woman (who wouldn’t sleep with him sober) blind drunk and takes her home that shouldn’t constitue rape? It’s a difficult discussion tbh.
I think there's two really tricky elements of that: "getting" them blind drunk, and the idea that alcohol alone changes the decision.
Let's try and use my case as an example, because it's a lot less of a touchy subject, and a lot less likely to incite someone like
@Silva to jump in and call people rapists to make himself feel good.
This woman bought me a lot of drinks I wasn't asking for. I wasn't rejecting them either. I'd met her a couple of times before and I got the vibe she was keen, so I at one point mentioned I'm weirdly not attracted to white women. That was as blunt as I felt like being given we (loosely) work together.
At about 1am I decided it was time to head off. She appeared as I was jumping in the taxi and said she lives in that direction. I said nah, get your own in a half jokey, half serious way. She jumped in anyway. Then she jumped out where I lived. I suggested she get back in the taxi. She didn't.
At that point I'm basically resigned to the fact she wants to sleep with me, I can't really be arsed with drama and subsequent intense work awkwardness, so in she comes. I grab myself a glass of water and by the time I'm done, she's naked in bed. And away we go.
Did she buy me drinks hoping it would make me more likely to sleep with her? Maybe. Was I more likely to decide "ah feck it, whatever, it is what it is"? Probably. Does that combined mean she forced me to get drunk so she could force me to sleep with her? Not remotely. Does it make her a "predator"? I don't think so at all.
Maybe she just wanted to have a good time so bought loads of drinks, and then thought I was just being playful. If I didn't really consent to having sex then I wouldn't have had sex, right? I think it's a lot more complicated than that.
It's the kind of conversation that needs to be had openly among reasonable people. Unfortunately it's a conversation dominated by people like
@Silva throwing out comments for a reaction, and to shame others, and inevitably gets a reaction like
@DouLou's pushing hard in the other direction rather than trying to find a middle ground.
It helps to understand consent a bit better though doesn't it.
If you didn't say yes to it and she got you drunk, it's the same mentality as rape, it's the power of you that she had and she knew exactly what she was doing.
It's definitely not good.
Certainly. I have a better understanding of the nuances of consent now than I did back then. It was a bizarre scenario I'd never imagined before. But at the same time I still think it's incredibly unclear in some scenarios. Could she "reasonably believe" that I consented? I suppose so. I don't even know if I did consent. I definitely don't feel like I did, but I don't think it's entirely true to say I didn't.
I told her in indirect terms before that I didn't find her attractive, but maybe she thinks I happily sleep with people I'm not attracted to. Or maybe she thought she'd won my desire, and I was just making her work for it. I dunno. In any case, she misjudged. How you characterise that misjudgment is incredibly difficult, IMO.
