What City have done is legal, hence why Uefa can't challenge it. Their only option is to change the FFP rules (which, as you say, will be instantly shot down by the crack lawyers City and PSG can hire) or start a new league with a clean slate, mandating that all revenues come from a club's own activity rather than a benefactor.
Varchester City 18/19 discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
From SwissRamble today in his appraisal of 2017/2018 accounts:
Etihad shirt sponsorship worth £45m a season, while naming rights for stadium and campus estimated at £15-20m. City Football Group will reportedly have a £50m kit deal with Puma from 2019/20, a big increase on current Nike £20m. Nexen Tire sleeve sponsor is £10m.
By way of comparison Arsenal announced increase to £40million pa for Emirate sponsorship back in Feb and, of course, they have stadium sponsorship as well.
Again there are several shades of grey. City are white enough not to be challenged, but not because they're white. PSG did the same thing in a darker shade and we're punished (so moved a few numbers around).
The FFP laws are stupid though so fair play to anyone for finding ways to break them. If someone said to my business I wasn't able to purchase new machinery as it would cause my accounts to look poor for a year I would tell them where to go. If they then said the policy was designed to protect the companies who's families had been milking the industry for years I'd tell them where to go twice as hard.
Investment breeds competition... Competition breeds a better product for the consumer... A better product for the consumer benefits everyone apart from said vested interests.
In those 7 years we've won 2 titles, been to the CL semi's so I completely disagree.
I think yours is the naive view buddy, for example our new shirt sponsorship (starting next season) comes in only really behind United at a rumoured £50+m as opposed to the current Nike one of £18m, the general consensus on here was "clubs like Chelsea dwarf your shirt sponsor" but the reality was we signed with Nike long before they signed their newest deals. By comparison Chelsea's latest deal with Nike is £60m and Arsenals newest deal is supposed to be the same money. So at most we'll be close on all but United. Large companies don't care about 10 years ago, when companies are shopping for whose going to get their brand the most exposure on the biggest stage, City are right up there now. They don't care about history only who'll be on tv now. And for the most part in the last few years, in the CL that's been City. In the premiership we are pretty much on a par with all the big teams.
We don't live in a time where it takes decades. Our sponsors give no shites we were in league 1 not that long ago. They only care about what we can bring to them now. It doesn't take time to get money, it takes success.
I think given we pretty much can command as much as just about every English team bar United then yes, I think we'd get a combined £65m or there abouts shirt and stadium sponsorship handily enough. I see no reason why not.. in all honesty. If those deals weren't legit Uefa would be down on them already.
We are not in breach of the rules, illegal is nothing to do with the spirit of the rules and completely to do with breaking the rules and we both really have no clue how City are complying on both accounts.
Your statement is pure conjecture (as is much of both our opinions) as you like myself have no clue what we earn from what sources and we can only speculate on all but the known ones but your argument seems to be based around Uefa (and the PL) just can't be arsed to investigate enough, which is why its hard to take seriously.
I'd wager those 6 make the majority of the revenue.
As I have no way to prove or disprove what you say, it would be a pointless bet. But fwiw I'd wager the Nike deal is the 2nd biggest one at the club, though I would say 5 of the 6 Emirati deals are top 10 but again I have no way to confirm or deny and we're running off speculation and dare I say a little bias on the side of both parties
The fact remains that £58 Mill has had to be put into the club. After putting this in you have still only posted a £10 Mill profit. This means £48 Mill has vanished. Any other business run this way would have gone bust years ago. It would be foolish to believe City are worth anything near £2 Bill. On the 1 hand the club are saying they are self sufficient & on the other they are stating that Mansour will have to keep giving the club financial support.
£48 million hasn't vanished. The £58 million was paid in on 24 January and seems it was used for the Laporte purchase. City triggered Laporte's release cause meaning the transfer had to be paid in full at outset. This differs from most transfers which are paid by instalment. So effectively it was a cashflow exercise and is the first time the Sheikh has put any money in directly for about 4 years.
Whilst the transfer fee was paid in full and upfront it is accounted for in profit and loss terms over the length of his contract. The term for this is amortisation - for example a £60mil fee over 5 years is an expense to the business of £12million a year. United do exactly the same thing and for the record City and United have the highest amortisation figures in the PL.
I said it takes decades to build a United/Bayern/Real/Barcelona commercial revenue, not an Arsenal one. If City's commercial revenue were £117m as Arsenal, rather than £232m then we wouldn't be having this conversation.
Arsenal's Emirates sponsorship is £40m including the naming rights of a new stadium (valued higher than a rebranded one). That's almost exactly what I generously predicted City would achieve on the open market. The difference between City and Chelsea/Liverpool/Arsenal is the £100m extra pumped in by related companies. That sets City apart from everyone else and allows them to comply with FFP whilst significantly outspending the others.
Again Uefa don't have the ability to challenge City as it's a stupid law that's poorly drafted, it's not as easy as merely "coming down on them". You try and enforce rules of tax evasion against multi billionaires for example... Being technically in breach of the law is completely different than being able to be proven and convicted of an offense.
Hmmm... Not sure about that last bit. If some clubs are earning their own money and other clubs aren't, to me that's an uneven playing field. It's a bit like saying 'we need to stop Usain Bolt winning the 100m, so let's put the rest of the runners on steroids.'
If clubs want to disrupt the elite, they can always do it the old-fashioned way: By investing wisely and building patiently. Liverpool, Spurs and Leicester have all shown it's possible to challenge for the title without having someone give you a billion quid.
Sky's viewing figures hit a seven-year low last year, so it doesn't seem the influx of oil money has generated greater interest (although i appreciate that the rise of ilegal streams has contributed to this). Also it seems a number of clubs are inflating their attendance figures.
But that's my view anyway. Sure plenty will disagree.
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The fact remains that City as a business were unable to generate the cash to buy Laporte. If i want to buy something but don't have the money at the time i would have to take out a loan. This would be widely considered by most to be a debt. In the strange world of City accounts Mansour putting £50 Mill of his own money into his own business is classed as profit. On the other point this won't be the first time in 4 years Mansour has had to put his own money in.
''Manchester City football club is reliant on its ultimate parent undertaking, Abu Dhabi United Group Investment and Development Ltd, for its continued financial support.''
This would suggest that Mansour has been propping the club up pretty much from the start.
It is NOT classed as profit. Profit and loss is based on trading income/expenditure and not on capital injections via loans or gifts.
Of course he was propping up the business from the start but, until this £58 million, it is the first time he has put money in for ages. The figures are in the accounts and now stands at £1.316 billion.
Interesting fact but we've lost 7 games since the start of last season, 4 in the CL, 2 in the league and 1 in the FA Cup. Gundogan has started 6 of them, the other being the 2nd leg vs Liverpool, where we did quite well till the half time meltdown over the Sane disallowed goal.
Is he that big an issue? Read a post elsewhere where he was described as being an Arsenal player (sorry arsenal fans) who is great when things are going well but hides when the shit hits the fan. Granted Fernandinho, Laporte and Delph were equally as bad last night but he has too many games like that. Is he lacking the balls for a fight?
Is he that big an issue? Read a post elsewhere where he was described as being an Arsenal player (sorry arsenal fans) who is great when things are going well but hides when the shit hits the fan. Granted Fernandinho, Laporte and Delph were equally as bad last night but he has too many games like that. Is he lacking the balls for a fight?
it would be interesting to know where he played in all of those games. I remember the first game against Liverpool in the CL, where he played in a really weird position.
You have to look at it from a different perspective. When he plays, you usually lose one of De Bruyne/David Silva/Fernandinho. The first two are just way too good for any sub to come in and replace them with the same quality and Fernandinho offers ball-winning ability and steel, which your midfield would lack without him. At least he was very good at it last season.
It is like when Barca had Busquets-Xavi-Iniesta, they replaced one with Fabregas for 1 game and they immediately looked much worse. Not because Fabregas is a shit player, but because the other 3 were just too good.
I don't think it's to do with personality per say. His main strengtth at Dortmund was his ability to be extremely press resistant in transition. He was never a controller. The problem he has now is that the dexterity he had with moving the ball, especially from a stand still position is gone. The injuries have robbed him off most of that. He is a liability when playing in the #8 position as he always seems lethargic. When he's a bit further back he can read the game a bit better and doesn't have to be as reactive which I think will suit ihim better.
It happens to players, injuries change thier game. I mean look at Gabreiel Jesus. That injury has affected him mentally, you can tell he is still a bit scared of reinjury which is understandable. It will proabbyl take him half a season to get back that form.
Look at their GD ffs!
And De Bruyne coming back.
They will not emulate last season, so I've been told
I have made peace with the fact that they are going to win the league again. Better them than Liverpool.
Marginally better than ours.
All the attention has been directed towards United's drama, Liverpool's excellent start, Arsenal under Emery, and Sarriball. Meanwhile these guys are quietly doing their job.
The only team who can stop them is Liverpool. At the same time can't see them even reaching the Champions League Final.
Why not?
At knockout stages I suspect there are teams better prepared to exploit their mistakes like Liverpool did last season. Its debatable of course but I think Lyon or Hoffenheim already shown this season that winning games in the Premier League is different than in the Champions League.
If they play the way they did against Liverpool at Anfield they'll go far in the competition.
Not saying they won't just saying this team is made to win marathons so to say, while teams like Real Madrid have won 4 out of 5 Champions League without even being the best team in Spain unless maybe 1 or 2 seasons at best.
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Look at who they've played. They've had 4 fixtures against strong relegation candidates & 3 of these have been at home. Also played 2 sides likely to finish bottom half of the table also at home. Had Arsenal away first game, looks like this was the best time to face them considering the run they've been on since. Wolves & Liverpool were 2 good away points. They are where you'd expect them to be after this kinds of fixture list. Much tougher tests to come though
CL is looking weaker than it's ever been at present though. Real & Bayern are both struggling in the league. Barca also don't look as good as previous years. Juventus may still be dangerous but very much dependant on how much Ronaldo has left. I think Pep will have learnt from last year. If they face Liverpool again he won't try to play the game his way as they've been trounced every time. He will do what he did in the league match a few weeks ago. As it is it's all set up for 1 of the smaller teams to win it this year.
This is last season and this season games combined. They're in a completely different league to the rest of us unfortunately. You can combine United, Chelsea and Arsenals GD and the combined total would only be 6 over Citys.
This is last season and this season games combined. They're in a completely different league to the rest of us unfortunately. You can combine United, Chelsea and Arsenals GD and the combined total would only be 6 over Citys.
The one story here is City's ridiculousness, but look at that United graph - GD is basically constant for nearly the last 15 games. That's a really long time frame, spanning across seasons even.
Arsenal under Emery have strongly improved their GD per game, but we know from xG stats that they also are scoring above expectations at the moment. Will be interesting to see if it's a temporary blip.
Aye, think our GD over the last 20 games is +6.
Clear red card for Kompany on Saturday on and their second goal was a whole host of decisions gone wrong.
Granted they would probably still beat Burnley at home but these are decisions at key moments of the game. After their own Amazon documentary tries to portray a league where opponents tackle them off the pitch, Kompany hurls his studs into someone thighs with just a yellow. He took down the last man against Leicester last season and only got a yellow for that.
Granted they would probably still beat Burnley at home but these are decisions at key moments of the game. After their own Amazon documentary tries to portray a league where opponents tackle them off the pitch, Kompany hurls his studs into someone thighs with just a yellow. He took down the last man against Leicester last season and only got a yellow for that.
Kompany could have been a red yeah, but it was a pen on Sane, but we've had crucial decisions go against us this season, Wolves goal being the prime one
When he dived before your second goal? He just fell over, never a penalty in a million years.
he didn't fall over, I only saw it on goals on Sunday but he was clearly clipped on his shooting leg which they showed, it wasn't as though he went down in a natural diving motion either.
City also had some massive, game changing decisions go against them against Liverpool in the CL. It wasn't as cut and dry as the score line (or Liverpool fans) suggested.
Indeed. I think there were 3 crucial offside decisions which went against them at key times, especially the second leg where a perfectly valid goal was disallowed ... would have made it 2-0 and a totally different game.
Liverpool countered very dangerously and City often looked a bit blunt, but certainly referee decisions played a crucial role.
Most people are talking about the GD and concentrating on the goals scored.
What has been even more impressive is the defence and the amount of clean sheets we have had.
We really look assured now at the back and by the looks of it, quite happy to rotate the defenders, which usually causes disruptions but not with this group.
Whether it's a combination of Kompamy, Stones, Ota or Laporte we are starting to look the most assured at the back. More so than i can remember.
Young Garcia waiting in the wings and 1 of the highlights of preseason stands us in good stead for the future too.
Think its great how we're getting a free passage and flying under the radar at the moment, but the defence and their new found fortress mentality is the delight of our season so far.
What has been even more impressive is the defence and the amount of clean sheets we have had.
We really look assured now at the back and by the looks of it, quite happy to rotate the defenders, which usually causes disruptions but not with this group.
Whether it's a combination of Kompamy, Stones, Ota or Laporte we are starting to look the most assured at the back. More so than i can remember.
Young Garcia waiting in the wings and 1 of the highlights of preseason stands us in good stead for the future too.
Think its great how we're getting a free passage and flying under the radar at the moment, but the defence and their new found fortress mentality is the delight of our season so far.
City were totally dominant last night. Pep saying it's the best the played under him. They've got a good chance in the CL this season, just need break the mental barrier. I think they've improved since last year. The depth they have as well, Bernado, Ageuro, Sane on the bench last night.