Brexited | the worst threads live the longest

[villain]

I would have loved to have met one. I'd really actually love to have a discussion with JRM or Farage or one of that ilk - would be hilarious.

Oddly enough, I used to say this about BoJo and it so happens that he goes to the same barber as one of the Partners in my very first job out of uni - and a small group of us had the opportunity to engage with him on a few occasions when he held meetings in our building.
The guy is insanely switched on, the bumbling moron act he plays up for the camera is so far from reality, unfortunately.

I don't believe that to be the case with Farage, I genuinely think he's an idiot.
JRM on the other hand reminds me of a literal snake - I just can't trust the man.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Oddly enough, I used to say this about BoJo and it so happens that he goes to the same barber as one of the Partners in my very first job out of uni - and a small group of us had the opportunity to engage with him on a few occasions when he held meetings in our building.
The guy is insanely switched on, the bumbling moron act he plays up for the camera is so far from reality, unfortunately.

I don't believe that to be the case with Farage, I genuinely think he's an idiot.
JRM on the other hand reminds me of a literal snake - I just can't trust the man.

I'd be up for the challenge for any of them. Agree, Farage would be the easiest to make a complete fool of.

 

[Zarlak]

We live in democracy for a reason. Brexit may have been voted on a bed of lies and ignorance, but it was still voted democratically.
& unless there's evidence of vote tampering or other illicit measures - it is what it is, unfortunately.



The picture was clearly a joke tbf.



This is what democracy is unfortunately.

Don't get it confused, I don't like anything about Brexit - but I think it would be disastrous if we try to re-do elections just because the outcome isn't ideal.



What happens if it's voted for again? Do we do it a third time?

Do you see how easy this can set a dangerous precedent for what democracy truly means?

You realise that allowing people a second chance to change their mind about destroying their future is exactly what democracy is? Telling people who were lied to that they have to deal with it and tough shit is not democratic.

 

[Simbo]

Found this amusing.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Listening to May and Corbyn in parliament , both stumbling, stammering and bumbling along.Oh dear.

 

[villain]

You realise that allowing people a second chance to change their mind about destroying their future is exactly what democracy is? Telling people who were lied to that they have to deal with it and tough shit is not democratic.

That argument only works if you would back a second referendum, if Remain had won, and Farage was campaigning for a second vote.
Or, in the event of a second referendum - the losing camp can campaign for a third referendum, and we go on and on.

It would undermine democratic integrity going forward.

 

[C3Pique]

How is more democracy a bad thing? If anything making an advisory, non-binding vote based on what are now clear to be complete mistruths irreversible, undermines democratic integrity going forward.

 

[Simbo]

That argument only works if you would back a second referendum, if Remain had won, and Farage was campaigning for a second vote.
Or, in the event of a second referendum - the losing camp can campaign for a third referendum, and we go on and on.

It would undermine democratic integrity going forward.

Many would argue that not having this vote undermines our democratic integrity. We vote all the time, usually every 5 years for a GE, however occasion sometimes calls for an unscheduled GE. This depends on circumstance and whether there is appetite for it in parliament and the general public.

To force this through because of a small majority one day back in June 16 in a non-binding referendum and say it cannot be over-turned no matter what because it is un-democratic, is un-democratic.

If the leavers care so much about democracy, why in gods name would they be against another vote? If Brexit is really what we want, it is what we'll get.

 

[adexkola]

Never mind a hypothetical invasion of France. How about when Iraq was invaded based on poor information? Whether it's the electorate or the government making decisions based on false assumptions, it seems insane to think that decisions can't be changed once these false assumptions are uncovered.

Don't matter who did what to who at this point. Fact is, we went to war and now there ain't no goin' back. I mean, shit, it's what war is, you know? Once you in it, you in it. If it's a lie, then we fight on that lie. But we gotta fight.

 

[golden_blunder]

That argument only works if you would back a second referendum, if Remain had won, and Farage was campaigning for a second vote.
Or, in the event of a second referendum - the losing camp can campaign for a third referendum, and we go on and on.

It would undermine democratic integrity going forward.

Best of three I reckon

 

[Barca84]

Dunno, I come from an East Midland pit village and there was always plenty of casual racism there.

I'm not saying there isn't. What I'm saying is I've experienced more of it, and a lot less casual, in an affluent south east where people have long drives with gates at the end to keep brown skinned and other undesirables off their property.

 

[JPRouve]

That argument only works if you would back a second referendum, if Remain had won, and Farage was campaigning for a second vote.
Or, in the event of a second referendum - the losing camp can campaign for a third referendum, and we go on and on.

It would undermine democratic integrity going forward.

And this only makes sense if there is no new perspective. After two years, you can't even find two leavers with the same idea of Brexit, you can't find two leavers with the same idea of a simple withdrawal deal and that's without even mentioning the irish border issue or the litany of lies and misinformation that were spread during the campaign.

 

[golden_blunder]

Found this amusing.

From that article ‘self-governing’

I could have swore UK had their own government. Well in name only, since they’re a bit shit

Amazing how many buy into this myth that EU runs UK

 

[Barca84]

There's levels tho aren't there? It's not one or the other is it? Let's not pretend every campaign is the same...


All I'll say to these people is It's not about what other people think of you. It's about what you do. You're defined by your actions. Tell people why you are voting leave? How it will fix your problems? Have you changed your mind? Speak up for yourself... Speak to the politicians that are shafting you, even if it's one from your own party or one that voted leave with you. Seeing someone shut down a bigot in comment sections and then going on to say how they voted leave but despise cnuts like the person they just shut down would go a long way too.

It's all good distancing themselves from the thick racists/xenophobes but maybe do it vocally and visibly?

There's a fair amount of that going on and every poll I've seen recently indicates a significant swing to remain. Comment sections? Hardly representative of the demographic. Try a pub in the Nottinghamshire coalfield and see what you find there. The problem is the pollsters and the gaugers of public opinion won't be seen there. Why do you think the Brexit vote came as such a shock to half the country and wasn't predicted in any polling?

 

[villain]

Many would argue that not having this vote undermines our democratic integrity. We vote all the time, usually every 5 years for a GE, however occasion sometimes calls for an unscheduled GE. This depends on circumstance and whether there is appetite for it in parliament and the general public.

To force this through because of a small majority one day back in June 16 in a non-binding referendum and say it cannot be over-turned no matter what because it is un-democratic, is un-democratic.

If the leavers care so much about democracy, why in gods name would they be against another vote? If Brexit is really what we want, it is what we'll get.

And this only makes sense if there is no new perspective. After two years, you can't even find two leavers with the same idea of Brexit, you can't find two leavers with the same idea of a simple withdrawal deal and that's without even mentioning the irish border issue or the litany of lies and misinformation that were spread during the campaign.

But then where does it stop? That's my main point.
I understand the arguments that the voters were misled and misinformed at the time of the election, and I agree - that's not what i'm arguing against.

The point is, whatever the result of a hypothetical second referendum we open ourselves to a perpetual loop of more and more elections, and not just on Brexit but going forward too on potentially any decision made.

I'm not arguing for Brexit, i'm trying to determine where the line is drawn if we have a second referendum, and what stops us from having a third and fourth one.

Best of three I reckon

Remain gotta win 2 in a row to pull this back, shades of '99 CL final.

 

[JPRouve]

But then where does it stop? That's my main point.
I understand the arguments that the voters were misled and misinformed at the time of the election, and I agree - that's not what i'm arguing against.

The point is, whatever the result of a hypothetical second referendum we open ourselves to a perpetual loop of more and more elections, and not just on Brexit but going forward too on potentially any decision made.

I'm not arguing for Brexit, i'm trying to determine where the line is drawn if we have a second referendum, and what stops us from having a third and fourth one.

Never, that's the point of Politic and Legislation, it's a perpetual work in progress.

 

[Fener1907]

No second referendum, please. Just let the feckers leave and be done with their self-importance.

 

[2 man midfield]

I voted remain but it does make me laugh a bit, the amount of outrage from people who would be 100% against a second referendum if remain won. Define democracy in whatever way you like but you can’t really blame people for laughing when you display such an obvious bias.

Also calling people stupid just because they have a different opinion to your own is I think partly the reason for such a huge divide in the first place. Some of things I’ve read from remainers are so patronising, condescending and just sanctimonious in their tone that no-one actually wants to listen to your point.

 

[afrocentricity]

There's a fair amount of that going on and every poll I've seen recently indicates a significant swing to remain. Comment sections? Hardly representative of the demographic. Try a pub in the Nottinghamshire coalfield and see what you find there. The problem is the pollsters and the gaugers of public opinion won't be seen there. Why do you think the Brexit vote came as such a shock to half the country and wasn't predicted in any polling?

Yeah that's fair. But they must understand they get lumped in with the racists etc because they aren't being heard, and they are less visible than the loud ones on social media. Is the same with generalisations about Remain voters. People are just commenting on what they see, generalisations are shit and I agree.

It's fecking unimportant tho, if you know those people don't represent you and people you know or meet aren't calling you defacto racist etc based on your vote then what does it matter?

Your actions are whats important....

 

[sullydnl]

No second referendum, please. Just let the feckers leave and be done with their self-importance.

This is another point.

Even if there was a second referendum and the UK decided to stay, what sort of relationship would they have with the rest of the EU at that point? What sort of relationship would they even want?

British Euroscepticism didn't begin with Brexit and it certainly wouldn't end with Brexit's reversal. In ten years time would there be another push for Brexit? Would the UK try demanding concessions and further special treatment if it stays?

At least if the UK leaves there's clarity. The EU doesn't have to pander to a country that isn't all that keen on being a part of it and the UK is left in no doubt as to what "taking back control" actually means, for good or for ill.

 

[Drainy]

We'll be back in the EU within 20 years, and on worse terms.

 

[sullydnl]

Found this amusing.

It's a particularly odd argument as the rest of the world isn't exactly laughing with the UK as is.

 

[Fingeredmouse]

How is it not embarrassing?

A bunch of middle class Southerners upset that a democratic decision went against what they wanted.

I think for a lot of people Brexit is the first decision that has negatively impacted them directly, and they don't like it and want it reversed.

I’m a working class northerner who doesn’t like my country playing into the hands of an elite looking to exploit the poor of this country through a series of demonstrably false lies. I don’t care if you’re embarrassed.

 

[Ubik]

Never, that's the point of Politic and Legislation, it's a perpetual work in progress.

Right. I imagine that the Farages of the world would demand a third ref if remain won a re-run, and it would then be up to them to create enough political pressure for that to happen. Doesn't mean a second would be in any way anti-democratic.

 

[Adisa]

57% of Brits are proud of the UK'S colonial history. 46% think the colonies benefited from colonialism.

 

[Moiraine]

Lets have a best of three

 

[oates]

No second referendum, please. Just let the feckers leave and be done with their self-importance.

Valuable input. Maybe you've a perfectly good reason for insulting us? I know we can be difficult but we're one of 4 countries that puts the most money in the pot. I think we've paid our dues as we've gone along.

 

[JPRouve]

Right. I imagine that the Farages of the world would demand a third ref if remain won a re-run, and it would then be up to them to create enough political pressure for that to happen. Doesn't mean a second would be in any way anti-democratic.

He was talking about a re-run hours before the first referendum. The only good argument against it is about practicality and usefulness, the parliamentarians need to determine if there is a need for a plebiscite and also determine the appropriate timing. But there is no democracy issue, that's an extremely silly idea because after two years new informations are available to the public and it can only be done with the consent of the electorate's representatives. In reality if you were to respect your democracy, the first referendum shouldn't have happened, you are representative democracy not a direct one.

 

[Fener1907]

This is another point.

Even if there was a second referendum and the UK decided to stay, what sort of relationship would they have with the rest of the EU at that point? What sort of relationship would they even want?

British Euroscepticism didn't begin with Brexit and it certainly wouldn't end with Brexit's reversal. In ten years time would there be another push for Brexit? Would the UK try demanding concessions and further special treatment if it stays?

At least if the UK leaves there's clarity. The EU doesn't have to pander to a country that isn't all that keen on being a part of it and the UK is left in no doubt as to what "taking back control" actually means, for good or for ill.

Excellent post. Although I can empathise with many of those people who marched over the weekend, something is fundamentally wrong between the EU and UK, and nothing is repairing the damage done in the last two years, at least not any time soon, and certainly not a reversal of the result.

Valuable input. Maybe you've a perfectly good reason for insulting us? I know we can be difficult but we're one of 4 countries that puts the most money in the pot. I think we've paid our dues as we've gone along.

I'm from the UK, but if that's considered an insult, so be it.

 

[Simbo]

But then where does it stop?

Never? I dunno, lets find out!

I'm much less worried about having to vote too much than I am about not voting enough.

Aren't you?

 

[oates]

I'm from the UK, but if that's considered an insult, so be it.

I think labelling us as self-important feckers isn't complimentary but since you are one of us it'll pass.

 

[RedChip]

Many would argue that not having this vote undermines our democratic integrity. We vote all the time, usually every 5 years for a GE, however occasion sometimes calls for an unscheduled GE. This depends on circumstance and whether there is appetite for it in parliament and the general public.

To force this through because of a small majority one day back in June 16 in a non-binding referendum and say it cannot be over-turned no matter what because it is un-democratic, is un-democratic.

If the leavers care so much about democracy, why in gods name would they be against another vote? If Brexit is really what we want, it is what we'll get.

Here! Here!

I'm getting really fed up of this get out. In a democracy, we vote to change things, even things we voted for previously. It isn't like we asking for Brexit to be abandoned without a vote. That would be undemocratic.

 

[Fener1907]

I think labelling us as self-important feckers isn't complimentary but since you are one of us it'll pass.

Well, I did jump on the "Irish granddad, one passport, please" lifeboat, but I resent the fact that it even came to that, hence the bitterness.

 

[Stanley Road]

Agree but there was significant movement. Voters also left UKIP to get a referendum knowing that UKIP would never be in government any more than the LibDems would.
If I were still living in the UK, although a traditional Tory voter I couldn't vote for them now, I couldn't vote for Labour because of Corbyn and anyone else is a wasted vote. So glad I don't live there now.

But you have said in this thread that youd have voted for cameron in 2015, if you had to vote.

 

[JPRouve]

But you have said in this thread that youd have voted for cameron in 2015, if you had to vote.

And he once voted for Major, don't forget that.

 

[oates]

Well, I did jump on the "Irish granddad, one passport, please" lifeboat, but I resent the fact that it even came to that, hence the bitterness.

Rats leaving sinking ship etc etc..

I'd do it myself and I do have an option but it would be just so complicated and the way things are going that country will probably have left by the time I got it sorted.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

But you have said in this thread that youd have voted for cameron in 2015, if you had to vote.

I said I probably would have done, I didn't even consider it at the time, I wasn't even aware there was a GE in the UK. I was not interested in politics.

I only became aware of Brexit when the pound started nosediving in November 2015 and I wanted to know why. Since then I've become fascinated at how such a large number of people set about destroying their own country through sheer gullibility and stupidity. The xenophobia is not a new revelation, just wasn't so open.

If I had voted in 2017 I would have probably voted Labour if Corbyn wasn't in charge.

Going back to your point on voting for an anti-brexit party. If people wanted to leave the EU why didn't they put the real pro-Brexit party in power, UKIP. That probably answers your own question.

And he once voted for Major, don't forget that.

He lived just up the road from me. Other reason Neil Kinnock was the other choice.

 

[Stanley Road]

I said I probably would have done,

Probably Shmonably. Despite the fact you were unaware of the election at the time, you were asked the question within the last year.

This thread has taken a bizzarre turn too. Comparing refs to GE's when at least wit a GE we get to sample what its like under another govt b4 theres another vote. Now people demand another vote before anything happened.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

Probably Shmonably. Despite the fact you were unaware of the election at the time, you were asked the question within the last year.

This thread has taken a bizzarre turn too. Comparing refs to GE's when at least wit a GE we get to sample what its like under another govt b4 theres another vote. Now people demand another vote before anything happened.

And I've given you the same answer.

You're right with a GE you can change the government again within a few years, five max. You can't change what's going to happen with Brexit within 5 years. I don't think there should be another vote, there shouldn't have been a referendum in the first place. Although it's political suicide the government should call it off before it's too late.
They have nothing to lose though really, when people realise what they have voted for, the Tories are toast anyway.
But failing that do anything to stop the insanity even if it is another vote.

 

[RedSky]

`

I’m a working class northerner who doesn’t like my country playing into the hands of an elite looking to exploit the poor of this country through a series of demonstrably false lies. I don’t care if you’re embarrassed.

The ultimate issue being that those thunder turds that did lie don't even get reprimanded for it. Just makes our whole system a shambles frankly.