Wow, she went all in with the fake scars etc...Jesus Christ.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-old-wounds-dressing-son-slave-Halloween.html
"Blackface" Discussion
- Thread starter Mister_Stubbs
- Start date
-
In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...-old-wounds-dressing-son-slave-Halloween.html
Poor kid, what a great mother he has
So why is brown face racist? There’s no history mocking of brown people like this.
I’m brown btw.
I’m brown btw.
I don't think it is. I doubt too many people are up in arms over the Salah one. TBH I think it should only be an issue when you exaggerate characteristics and create a caricature. E.g. the Tropic Thunder one was hilarious and no one in my British Carribbean family did not find it hilarious.
I think it’s down to personal interpretation. Some black people will find it offensive and some might not, but if you’re going to get on a train dressed like it the chances of bumping into the former obviously increases hugely. Just don’t do it.
Last edited:
Yeh even if you are anti - 'it's 2018' just don't do it in public as you may offend.
Wonder how many people do it on their own privately in their rooms.
Cultural appropriation is the biggest load of nonsense in the 21st century. A consequence of living in a multicultural society or one that has a number of mono culturers living side by side is the borrowing of culture and traditions.
Possibly, but I sure as shit don't need to "borrow" anyone's skin colour for the sake of authenticity in my choice of dressup.
Please let this thread die.
Anyone who doesn't believe blackface is offensive or doesn't understand why it's offensive - just doesn't care.
Anyone who doesn't believe blackface is offensive or doesn't understand why it's offensive - just doesn't care.
Or you can quote something from months ago reading several messages and the progression of understanding something that was COMPLETELY NEW TO ME and unknown in my society and spare this kind of comments
Thanks to this thread, long ago I learnt something that is offensive for another culture (north american - anglosaxon) and I respect it. Don't hunt ghost and be a bitch about it
Last edited:
Jesus Christ why would you dress your kid like that. But even more baffling, the apology after, how did you not expect outrage over it.
It's almost funny how stulid people are.
Some of it is, like an atheist wearjng a necklace with a cross or what not. Who gives a feck.
That salah one is hilarious tbh.
Nobody is hunting anyone. I gave a simple answer to your question. And you are missing the point saying that it is only offensive in North America and predominantly Anglo countries. The point is that it is offensive to black people wherever they are.
Last edited:
It really isn't.
Cultural appropriation is totally different from the cross pollination of cultures that occurs in a multicultural society. Denying it exists, despite the people it affects telling you that it both exists and they would like it to stop, is exactly the arrogant and frankly ignorant attitude that people like Vi1lain has tried to explain how it affects people of colour so calmly in this thread.
When people ask you not to do something that makes no difference to you or your life why wouldn't you accept that at face value and comply?
That line sounds quite insidious.
Are you talking about cultural appropriation here or just blackface? Because they're not really comparable. Blackface obviously has no place in the here and now, but complaining about blackface is obviously quite different to complaining about a white girl wearing a kimono to her prom, for instance. One makes sense and the other is moronic, and so the veracity of the offence taking because of it is irrelevant.
And repeat, I learnt and accepted so I don't understand your insistence mate.
Enquire and asking for explanations and from where it comes from is not denying the existence, is trying to understand
Saying that in my culture doesn't exist because black immigration is relatively new and by any means big enough to take it in consideration is not denying, is just explaining my surprise on the outrage caused.
As you are asking to understand (and I do) cultural appropriation at face value, I have the same right to ask to be understood my initial insensitivity as it was something unknown. Is very nice to ask to understand but not trying yourself. and yes, you can keep tearing your cloths apart from an isolated sentence found months ago, specially when afterwards and almost to finish I said this
But keep ranting
I don't agree to be honest and I've made the exact same argument as Wibble before.
Basically, this argument boils down to I want to do what I want and I don't care how it affects other people.
Yes some people are ridiculous. Yes, some people can be 'snowflakes'. But ultimately....if I'm doing something that bothers someone else and it doesn't bother me that much if I do it or not, why bother?
I've seen this come up recently with parents being told their kids can't depict themselves accurately as their heroes if they happen to be a different race. I can't think of anything less racist than actively wanting to portray yourself as that race because you look up to them and think they're great or your hero. That's pretty much the exact opposite of racism and promotes inclusion, rather than segregation which is what people seem to promote these days, you can only dress up as your kind etc. We shouldn't be teaching kids that there are differences between us and that it's not good to want to be like them, it should be the opposite that colour shouldn't exist as an issue and that we are all equal. We should be building a future generation where it just isn't an issue.
I think anybody with even an ounce of common sense can tell the difference between something done out of racism and malice, and the celebration of a culture and/or people which should be a beautiful and progressive thing. The longer we treat this as an issue, the longer it will continue to be an issue. There are posts in this thread of examples that are quite clearly unacceptable and totally obvious to anybody that they're done out of malice, or to mock black people and anybody with any sense can spot them and tell them apart.
I think anybody with even an ounce of common sense can tell the difference between something done out of racism and malice, and the celebration of a culture and/or people which should be a beautiful and progressive thing. The longer we treat this as an issue, the longer it will continue to be an issue. There are posts in this thread of examples that are quite clearly unacceptable and totally obvious to anybody that they're done out of malice, or to mock black people and anybody with any sense can spot them and tell them apart.
Last edited:
We've obviously gone round and round in circles in this thread. but this. Why do people want to fight to the death for their right to do things that they know offend others, but are ultimately so meaningless in their own lives? You wear blackface once a year on Halloween at the office party, but it offends a few colleagues. Fine, you don't feel the offence, but just be a bloody zombie, vampire or whatever.
You're really proud to show yourself up to be the intolerant, inconsiderate bigoted tit you are over such an irrelevant issue? Not sure that I'm sure there is a solid reason to show yourself up to be a intolerant, inconsiderate bigoted tit tbf, but I guess some people just are.
Erm? I was responding to another poster who didn't think cultural appropriation exists.
Ranting? Where?
I agree to an extent but the problem is that people are milking it and claiming everything is cultural appropriation. There were these students in Oxford who were going to have an end of term party so they called up the mosque and asked the recipe to make Moroccan couscous and they were told, "no that's cultural appropriation". all this type of nonsense. African American girl attacks a white guy with dreadlocks, in college, claiming his dreads are cultural appropriation. Or when the Kardashians get their hair braided or any white celebrity does, black twitter goes nuts and they are attacked over a hairstyle as its apparently "cultural appropriation". I agree in things like native American headdresses should not be used for sports teams or taken lightly but then again if you choose to live in another country, you should bide by their laws and freedoms. I guess ultimately its about freedom and not being dictated to as what you as an individual can say and do. I for one do not accept strangers telling me what I can wear etc, I'd tell them to go and do one.
Both.
Who are you to tell someone that their concerns are irrelevant and they are being moronic when they object to such behavior?
We still had The Black and White Minstrel show on prime UK TV less than 40 years ago and much the same argument made about why it was OK. If a person of native American Indian descent tells you they don't like you wearing their traditional costume as comedy you should really believe them and not tell them they are a moron simply because you can't be bothered thinking of a better fancy dress costume.
When people have been on the end of this sort of stuff there are inevitably going to be the odd example where it might go a bit far. Not sure I am the right person to judge which things do go too far mind.
And nobody is talking about outlawing cultural appropriation. It would just be nice if people could try their best and not just dismiss such concerns out of hand.
Because in the US you are still allowed to deny someone employment because they have Dreadlocks. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/nbcblk...dlock-ban-during-hiring-process-legal-n652211
And even in Jamaica things like this still happen. https://www.theguardian.com/global-...r-dreadlocks-will-return-to-class-court-rules
Haven't read the thread. But say a 15 16 years old favourite person in the world is say jordan, Is it offensive to dress in black paint a bulls jersey jordan trainers and a basketball for Halloween?
Or is it just dressing as a generic black person?
Or is it just dressing as a generic black person?
FFS seriously?!
You haven't read the thread but you ask the same question that's been asked a million times before.
Why do they need black paint?
Firstly, black people’s skin isn’t that of black paint.
Secondly, if you’re wearing the Jordan jersey, shorts and accessories like arm bands then I’m sure people will realise you’re Jordan, it literally has his name on the back.
Finally, why stop at the skin? Why not shave all your hair off too?
Also, dressing up as Jordan for Halloween is up there with terrible Halloween outfits, it’s not on trend or scary at all, you’re just playing dress up, and you’ve decided that being black is a costume akin to that of other ridiculous characters, particularly ones that don't exist.
There’s literally no need to paint your skin. And if you’re not black, painting your skin won’t make you look black either.
All you need to do is look in the 'racism' thread and see that having black skin can be enough to get your followed and questioned outside your house, or have the police called on you for being in starbucks, or having a bbq.
Then if you go in the 'police doing a good job' thread, you'll see that police will arrest, beat or kill unarmed black people at an alarming rate.
So for some, painting your skin black is a happy experience that you get to enjoy, maybe people will laugh at how funny you look, or say you look cool.
For black people, it can be the difference between life or death and i'm tired of it being taken so lightly.
You can't 'dress up' as black.
See above.
Also intent doesn't excuse racism. Not all racists are hateful. In fact most are pleasant people, otherwise.
Black hairstyles are political.
Like @Keeps It tidy said, dreadlocks and other prominently black hairstyles can get you denied from jobs because they are deemed dirty, unkept, unprofessional etc even though that's how black people's hair grow naturally.
Cornrows & other braided hairstyles are how, predominantly black women, had to subvert this system to keep their hair manageable.
If you've spoken to any black woman about this subject you'll know that we do this as a means to wear either weave on top, or to manage our hair so that it doesn't revert to a dreadlock style without damaging our hair. Or black men getting their hair cut every week, or manipulating their curl pattern so they don't grow out locks either.
The reason why it gets ire from black twitter is that black women are seen as comparatively undesireable, or ghetto if we were to wear these hairstyles out in public, and can be made the subject of ridicule.
Look at the treatment Fellaini gets for having an afro. Or people making fun of Smalling for simply growing his hair.
Whereas when white people (the kardashians & others) do the same hairstyles, they are seen as 'hip', and 'chic' and 'on trend'.
Now I, personally don't care about white people having dreadlocks because I think they are also stereotyped as dirty and unkept too, but when people like the kardashians do cornrows and call them 'boxer braids' and all of a sudden it's cute, but other black people do it and it's called ghetto - then yeah I have a problem with that. And it's not exactly rocket science to figure out why others would have a problem with it either.
Rather than looking on the outside without any knowledge or understanding of the history behind this, perhaps you should actually speak to some black people about it?
And not just one, because this idea that 'i have a black friend and he's alright with it' only perpetuates the idea that black people are a monolith with singular opinions and perspectives, and if one person is okay with it, then all of us should be okay with it.
Even some slaves enjoyed slavery.
You haven't read the thread but you ask the same question that's been asked a million times before.
Why do they need black paint?
Firstly, black people’s skin isn’t that of black paint.
Secondly, if you’re wearing the Jordan jersey, shorts and accessories like arm bands then I’m sure people will realise you’re Jordan, it literally has his name on the back.
Finally, why stop at the skin? Why not shave all your hair off too?
Also, dressing up as Jordan for Halloween is up there with terrible Halloween outfits, it’s not on trend or scary at all, you’re just playing dress up, and you’ve decided that being black is a costume akin to that of other ridiculous characters, particularly ones that don't exist.
There’s literally no need to paint your skin. And if you’re not black, painting your skin won’t make you look black either.
All you need to do is look in the 'racism' thread and see that having black skin can be enough to get your followed and questioned outside your house, or have the police called on you for being in starbucks, or having a bbq.
Then if you go in the 'police doing a good job' thread, you'll see that police will arrest, beat or kill unarmed black people at an alarming rate.
So for some, painting your skin black is a happy experience that you get to enjoy, maybe people will laugh at how funny you look, or say you look cool.
For black people, it can be the difference between life or death and i'm tired of it being taken so lightly.
You can't 'dress up' as black.
See above.
Also intent doesn't excuse racism. Not all racists are hateful. In fact most are pleasant people, otherwise.
Black hairstyles are political.
Like @Keeps It tidy said, dreadlocks and other prominently black hairstyles can get you denied from jobs because they are deemed dirty, unkept, unprofessional etc even though that's how black people's hair grow naturally.
Cornrows & other braided hairstyles are how, predominantly black women, had to subvert this system to keep their hair manageable.
If you've spoken to any black woman about this subject you'll know that we do this as a means to wear either weave on top, or to manage our hair so that it doesn't revert to a dreadlock style without damaging our hair. Or black men getting their hair cut every week, or manipulating their curl pattern so they don't grow out locks either.
The reason why it gets ire from black twitter is that black women are seen as comparatively undesireable, or ghetto if we were to wear these hairstyles out in public, and can be made the subject of ridicule.
Look at the treatment Fellaini gets for having an afro. Or people making fun of Smalling for simply growing his hair.
Whereas when white people (the kardashians & others) do the same hairstyles, they are seen as 'hip', and 'chic' and 'on trend'.
Now I, personally don't care about white people having dreadlocks because I think they are also stereotyped as dirty and unkept too, but when people like the kardashians do cornrows and call them 'boxer braids' and all of a sudden it's cute, but other black people do it and it's called ghetto - then yeah I have a problem with that. And it's not exactly rocket science to figure out why others would have a problem with it either.
Rather than looking on the outside without any knowledge or understanding of the history behind this, perhaps you should actually speak to some black people about it?
And not just one, because this idea that 'i have a black friend and he's alright with it' only perpetuates the idea that black people are a monolith with singular opinions and perspectives, and if one person is okay with it, then all of us should be okay with it.
Even some slaves enjoyed slavery.
Of course it is a very nuanced debate. A native American Indian offended by someone wearing a traditional headdress to a Halloween party is fair enough. A PC Principal-style white guy offended on behalf of Mexico because someone turned up in a sombrero? Nah, that guy is just a moron. A few hundred (American) twitterites outraged because a girl wears a traditional (and mass-produced) Chinese dress to her prom? Nope, no dice.
The crux of my argument really is that offence taking doesn't matter at all, unless there's a good reason behind it. The vast majority of cultural appropriation furores have been good examples of the style of political correctness that so rightly gets peoples backs up, i.e. that which is propagated by typically dim-witted ultra-privileged white people who get off on white-knighting other identity groups who neither asked for nor wanted their input or 'assistance'.
You are setting yourself as the arbiter of what is and isn't offensive? Why is wearing a kimono ok but an Native American headress not?
And while I can't raise to outrage over most of these issues I don't see why someone who isn't directly affected can't think it is a bad idea. I'm not personally affected by racism but I can recognise it and be vocally against it.
But then it just sounds like you are hating because someone rocks a hairstyle and gets better appraisal from the masses. That's life. It comes off a touch bitter. Let them do their hair anyway they want as it's their body and their hair, thus no ones business. And for the record, I must speak to black people seeing as I and British Carribean and no one in my community kicks up a fuss about the Karsashians hair as they couldn't care less. No one can claim hairstyles. This Fellaini and Smalling stuff is banter. Why make it political? Any footballer who has unique hair, it becomes a trademark of them. Big deal
Nobody is hating or stopping them from doing whatever hairstyles they want.
It's frustration that despite them wearing the exact same hairstyle, if you're white - you are seen as trendy or chic for having it, and if you're black you're seen as ghetto & unkept. That's it. So understandably people are frustrated because the stereotypes are still held against them for no other reason than being black.
So yeah, if they come across as bitter - do you blame them? Or should people accept unfair treatment?
The fact that you see Fellaini & Smalling's hair as banter is exactly the point.
What is the point in making fun of someone for how their hair grows naturally. It's different to making fun of Beckham for a man-bun, or whatever.
The idea that Fellaini & Smalling look 'silly' or 'stupid' when all they've done is grow their hair is exactly why this conversation is even being had.
Glad you think it's not a big deal, others think differently because they are treated differently because of it.
I know someone who cuts Fellani's hair. He has it cut, styled and coloured.
I quite like some recent incarnations of Smalling's hairstyle, the dreadlocked mullet he's had recently is questionable and deliberately styled that way. I don't believe it's racist to not like some of those styles or find them amusing (not that I have any interest in laughing at anyone's way of dressing their hair).
The vast majority of blokes that go for long hair get stick. Messi is an example of someone who just used to let his hair grow and got stick for it. (it looked rubbish) Claudio Cannigga is a more extreme example of this (he looked ridiculous).
Last edited:
It's offensive.
I wouldn't have seen it like that but good to know.
Okay, okay, but, but... What about this scenario
Yes I am taking the piss at this point
Well yes of course they need a certain amount of maintenance & upkeep, but they don't manipulate their hair texture in anyway.
It's natural - when I say natural, in the black community natural hair means it's not treated by any chemical agent to alter their curl pattern.
So yes, both of them style their hair like every other normal human, but ultimately it's how their hair naturally grows.
And no, not everyone's hair will dreadlock. White dreadlocks usually need a LOT of manipulation in order to maintain that look, oftentimes you'll find that they pad their hair with fake items to forcibly get that look. Seriously, ask a few white people with dreadlocks how they got it, and I guarantee none of them will say 'I just let it grow and didn't wash it'. In fact actual dreadlocks are washed, this idea that they're dirty is completely false too but that's another conversation.
If you think the treatment that Fellaini gets for simply having an afro is comparative, and not reflective of society's general feelings towards afro's & prominent black hairstyles, then you really haven't been paying attention. His afro is his identity to some people, he gets compared to a toilet brush ffs.
Do a search on the forum if you don't believe me.
This is all just in the last 2 months, and if I really wanted to search further i'm sure I could find more references to him a bog brush, tree, broccoli, or 'fellaini hair' etc.
Would you say that's comparable to others being made fun for having long hair? I don't think so at all.
You can say you don't like their - but to ridicule it to the extent that they get is unnecessary and illustrative of the fact that black hair is political.
If I really wanted to go further I could draw comparisons on how Chong's hair is treated in comparison, and his hair suits a more palatable afro (curls are defined, doesn't defy gravity) in the black hair community, Fellaini's hair is more commonly referred to as 'coarse' - and coarse hair styles have a history of condemnation, whereas Chong's hairstyle is more commonly found on those of mixed race heritage, and is therefore deemed more 'acceptable'.
But black hair is a VERY big topic, and I don't think a lot of people really understand the full lengths that we can unpack with this, purely because they haven't had to.
So I don't really blame them, but brushing this issue aside as if it means nothing is the wrong way to about things.
It's okay to not understand things because you haven't had to experience them, and because of your lack of understanding you're led to believe it doesn't exist. It's not okay to insist that it doesn't exist because you haven't had to deal with it, so you don't understand why others think it does exit.
That's a more generic point not specifically aimed at you btw.