Just here to cosign @villain
"Blackface" Discussion
- Thread starter Mister_Stubbs
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
Okay, okay, but, but... What about this scenario
Yes I am taking the piss at this point
I figured there was white text.
Typically, operators paint a camouflage design in multiple colours on their face but I have seen photos of South African operators using blackface in the field, presumably to disguise their whiteness when fighting against rebels, criminals, etc, who would take great pleasure in capturing a white soldier, presumably. It still makes me uneasy but I understand the purpose and their brothers in arms don't seem to mind.
For what it's worth, this is an example of a great outfit/costume
Same
Imagine me hating Beyonce?! It's blasphemy
The mind cannot compute.
At this point you should just quote your own older posts @villain etc. I don't know how you have the energy to repeat what you have clearly stated several times in this thread for the people that haven't bothered to read or even scan this thread. Maybe there'll be a time when you no longer have to...
I think that's what i'm gonna do since this thread just won't die.
Imagine if there was some sort of online resource that everyone could access if they had any questions on a topic they didn't understand, maybe one day humans can develop something like that.
I wish I had taken pics but my mate dressed up as Whiz Khalifa last night for his birthday party. He hates Halloween do they had an alternative fancy dress night. He looked fecking amazing and even had all his face, neck, hand and arm tattoos replicated by his Mrs who is a make up artist.
He didn't paint his skin black and he would t anyway, but he didn't need to as everyone could see who he was.
The one positive in this thread is at least it has helped educate a few people about how offensive and why blackface is so offensive. There is hope.
He didn't paint his skin black and he would t anyway, but he didn't need to as everyone could see who he was.
The one positive in this thread is at least it has helped educate a few people about how offensive and why blackface is so offensive. There is hope.
Fellaini is not black so why does him getting ridiculed mean its political. Plenty of black Athletes have had Afros and not being attacked. it was even a fashion in basketball back in the day also all the 80's footballers were getting perms. People attack Fellaini's hair because they don't like him. If he had long scraggly hair he'd be called "long haired prick" "scruffy haired prick" etc etc. If he had a mohican he'd be called "Mohican wearing prick". Valderram's fro was his trademark and many people enjoyed it.
I apologize, I miss quote you. I wanted to quote you there:
I am sure is not only in North America but predominantly it is, basically because it was where black slavery was more predominant, where the black face theatricals was more extended and where the civil rights fight for black people started and clashed the most as the most advance civilization in the 60-70.
And no, is not offensive to all black people, because some of them don't know that blackfacing was a way to portrait black people as inferiors. For some, if they see a kid in halloween blackfaced, is the same is they see a black kid "whitefaced".
The negative connotations of blackfacing have a history behind. If you don't know that history, as I didn't, and believe me, many people don't know, whites, blacks, asians, and other, it can't be offensive. We are not born with prejudices. A 5 years old kid that see a white 5 years old kid black faced will not feel offended if nobody told him anything, and even so he might not give a crap. Being offended by something is very personal
Saying that, I am happy that I could read and participate in this thread, as I am aware of it and act accordingly as I stated almost a year ago and after your first quote, that is why I didn't understand you picking a random quote in the middle of a conversation that was evolving to a final conclusion
Fellaini's ancestry lies in Morocco so it's not too unlikely for him to have black genealogy in his DNA.
Secondly even if you take Fellaini out of the argument, it doesn't discount everything else I said about black hairstyles and the reason why it causes such a backlash.
Fellaini is just a high profile example that would make sense to other football fans on a football forum.
And like I said - just because there are others' hairstyles who are celebrated doesn't make anything I said untrue either - most people love my afro for example, doesn't mean that I don't enjoy people gawking at the fact that I have one when I decide to wear it out and treat me like an animal at the petting zoo.
Sounds complicated. Doubt anyone would use it... Maybe when we get portable devices that you could ask any question? I saw something like it in a sci-fi film once....
"Can I touch your hair?" "Oooh it's so cool.... It's surprisingly soft."
Was ok the first few times it happened.... a bit much now tho.
I did a barbering course at collage and noticed that some of the white people in my class had a bizarre fixation with the hair of the black students, always wanted to touch their hair and ask about it. It was very odd and totally out of order, so I can see why it pisses so many people off.
46 pages, 1,854 posts and nearly a year in, we still have confusion over this."how do you wash it?" "do you comb it?" "how do you straighten it?" "how does it look when it's wet" "is it real?"
I don't wanna derail the thread with too much focus on black hair, but yes even positive acknowledgement isn't helpful.
It's kinda like the idea that making a song about Lukaku having a big penis isn't racist because it's a positive attribute that any guy would want.
Thinking black people have cool hair only highlights the idea that our hair is 'other' and as such warrants particular attention, which is why I said positive intent doesn't mean it's not racist.
Sure in the beginning the attention is fine - and in somewhere like Asia where they hardly ever see a black person even in media you can understand the shock and curiosity, but as a black person you begin to realise that your hair is on notice at all times, your hair can be the reason why someone thinks of you in one way or not - which can impact whether or not you get a job, or someone thinks you're smart, or likely to rob them, or poor etc.
You're then raised with the idea (particularly if you're a black woman) that your hair must be neat/tidy (read: approving of white beauty standards aka straight/tied up/short) in order not to make you look bad. Which then has the psychological effect of disliking your own natural hair, or thinking that other race's hair is superior to yours.
Like I said it's a really big topic, and there's so much to unpack because it's all tied in to much bigger subjects like white supremacy and racism.
But it's thirsty thursdays and I have a bottle of rosé with my name on it.
Wait, so can I or can I not make fun of Fellaini's hair?
This thread is confusing
This thread is confusing
Wait, so can I or can I not make fun of Fellaini's hair?
This thread is confusing
Of course you can ffs!
Humour should be used to bridge cultural barriers, however it should not be specifically offensive. Jimmy Carr does an excellent sketch on this. Taboo topics are ripe for humour, just look at the Ashton Kutcher/Bernie Mac (Rip) showdown at the dinner table. That whole scene was perfect in showing the difference between funny and acceptable humour and outright insensitive cruel humour that is purely meant to offend. Context and delivery are also key in case of humour of this kind.
Fellainis hair is fair game imho, however it's way down the list of things to take the piss out of in his case
Fair enough. Just get the idea that the line is shifting a bit .Carr for instance gets quite a lot of outrage over his jokes doesnt do? I personally find him hilarious.Of course you can ffs!
Humour should be used to bridge cultural barriers, however it should not be specifically offensive. Jimmy Carr does an excellent sketch on this. Taboo topics are ripe for humour, just look at the Ashton Kutcher/Bernie Mac (Rip) showdown at the dinner table. That whole scene was perfect in showing the difference between funny and acceptable humour and outright insensitive cruel humour that is purely meant to offend.
Fellainis hair is fair game imho, however it's way down the list of things to take the piss out of in his case
I think saying Fellaini looks like a toilet brush is a perfectly fine opinion to have. It's just hair, who cares. My hair looks like a birds nest if I don't put a ton of stuff in it and Im nfie with that.
Yes I understand that with Jimmy, but having seen him live 8 times I understand where he is coming from.
He ALWAYS finishes his set by saying he will now tell the most 15 offensive jokes he knows in a bid to upsetting everyone in the room. However, I have never heard him get past joke 8 or 9 and that is the point. He starts off tame and works up to a joke about the holocaust which usually results in everyone laughing. He then tells a joke about Princess Diana's death and it's usually met with 50/50 nervous laughter and groans. He then points out the hypocrisy of laughing at the worst incident of genocide and the death of 6 million people compared to the death of one. It's a powerful metaphor for humour and always makes people think.
Back on topic (ish)
I saw him a few weeks ago and some bloke called out if Jimmy knew any racist jokes and without even thinking Jimmy said "Yes mate, now I know two, YOU and Jim Davidson"
Quality.
"how do you wash it?" "do you comb it?" "how do you straighten it?" "how does it look when it's wet" "is it real?"
I don't wanna derail the thread with too much focus on black hair, but yes even positive acknowledgement isn't helpful.
It's kinda like the idea that making a song about Lukaku having a big penis isn't racist because it's a positive attribute that any guy would want.
Thinking black people have cool hair only highlights the idea that our hair is 'other' and as such warrants particular attention, which is why I said positive intent doesn't mean it's not racist.
Sure in the beginning the attention is fine - and in somewhere like Asia where they hardly ever see a black person even in media you can understand the shock and curiosity, but as a black person you begin to realise that your hair is on notice at all times, your hair can be the reason why someone thinks of you in one way or not - which can impact whether or not you get a job, or someone thinks you're smart, or likely to rob them, or poor etc.
You're then raised with the idea (particularly if you're a black woman) that your hair must be neat/tidy (read: approving of white beauty standards aka straight/tied up/short) in order not to make you look bad. Which then has the psychological effect of disliking your own natural hair, or thinking that other race's hair is superior to yours.
Like I said it's a really big topic, and there's so much to unpack because it's all tied in to much bigger subjects like white supremacy and racism.
But it's thirsty thursdays and I have a bottle of rosé with my name on it.
http://blackpeopleloveus.com
The Diana thing is similar to the news formula you are tought in journalism school. Distance x time x amount of death = news value.
When you read a headline starting with: terror attack, you gasp, but if it reads afterwards: in Kabul, you almost sigh of relief. Ah feck it then. It's a terrible thing to realize, but it's true.
Wait, so can I or can I not make fun of Fellaini's hair?
This thread is confusing
He chooses to have his hair like that, so yeah I’d argue it’s fair game. Most blokes could grow their hair to that length, they just choose not to.
I think it also helps that 6 million people sounds almost removed from anything we can comprehend. But Diana is just one person, and one who many feel they knew very well. She had a name, a face, a personality, a backstory etc. I think that’s why the holocaust museum is as moving as it is, because seeing things like personal belongings, a biography etc adds these aspects to victims who until then hadn’t really been thought of like that by the onlooker.
So if I see someone dressed up as a toreador for halloween or whatever I should feel offended because of cultural appropriation? Don't make me fecking laugh.
How self entitled can people be nowadays..
How self entitled can people be nowadays..
I will dress up as a bull and ram you if you do!
Completely off topic, but Red Bull and United are a marketing match made in heaven.
God, the amount of times I've had to deal with that in my emo-kid early years...
And that was genuinely people thinking it was cool, and not thinking negatively about it or me.
Wait, so can I or can I not make fun of Fellaini's hair?
This thread is confusing
Yes, black people love the fact that people take the piss out of their hair. It's witty, original and on point - what's not to like?!
Even if Fellaini were black, which he isnt, do you honestly think it's racist to say Fellaini has silly hair?
I wouldn't say Fellaini is white. I would say he has mixed ancestry.
If someone's hair naturally grows out like that, why would you take the piss? Do they have to keep it short to avoid being compared to a toilet brush?
Personally, I restrict piss taking to the choices people make, not the physical attributes they are born with.
He shouldnt at all. People shouldnt care so much bout being taken the piss out of. Of course there's a line between piss taking and actual malice, but people (of all colours) take themselves a bit too seriously in a lot of cases. The ability to laugh at each other, but eapecially laugh at one self is very important if you ask me.
You can take the piss out of Fellaini in a racist way and I strongly object to that, but just saying hehe the guy looks like a toilet brush falls isnt that to me.
I do concede that it's neither witty nor original though.
His heritage is Moroccan Berber. Both his parents are Moroccan.
All I can say is that it is very easy to say this when you're not part of an ethnic group that has been persistently vilified. Yes, people can be quite sensitive sometimes with seemlngly little reason but also sometimes for reasons you can't fully understand unless you walk in their shoes.
Thanks Penna. I think due to his light skin people think that it's more acceptable to make fun of his hair, but quite frankly it's tiring and pathetic to me.
Yeah, of course, I agree and that's why I would never question why something like blackface is deeply racist. And also why even "positive" things like singing Lukaku has a big penis is wrong. Thing is, people of all ethnicities are prone to having silly hair and it's okay to feck with em because of it, I think
Ginger people say hello.