No way, a Man City poster on here said that their finances are impeccable and they are one of the most financially successful clubs in the world through legitimate means.
Varchester City 18/19 discussion
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) is joined by CEO Duncan Drasdo and Financial Director Andy Green from the Manchester United Supporters Trust for a special episode on all things behind the scenes at Old Trafford including a brief history of MUST and their aims today, views on INEOS and Sir Jim Ratcliffe so far, and the Old Trafford regeneration.
No way, a Man City poster on here said that their finances are impeccable and they are one of the most financially successful clubs in the world through legitimate means.
Let me see if I have this right
Some documents where illegally stolen Which tell us that City did not like or accept FFP (We already knew this ) That they negotiated with UEFA (We already knew this )
The documents dont tell us that they had the right to negotiated which they did (in fact the insinuation is that City did not have this right)
They dont tell us why City dont like FFP True mainly because it could have or did negatively affect them but also because they changed the rules mid process and because they are not fair fair given the history of Bankrolled clubs and lack of regulation pre FFP. Its anti free markets possibly to such an extent that it would constitute illegal cartel like practices Hence the strong words from city now looked down on in these documents and the media reporting of them
The documents are meant to be about City hiding costs through other entities but but the reports are an insinuation more than proof. Also we knew that city had these companies and I am not sure they actual show us anything that is wrong. A because we know that City where charged for the costs incurred by these other entities on Cities behalf. I think other clubs have multiple companies and do similar. Certainly big multinationals and conglomerates do. The debate then is about the amounts that where involved or should have been involved. If City actually did anything wrong then they would have to have got it past their auditors, accountants, the tax man and UEFA
Cities strong words are one of three things either a guilty man protesting an innocent man protesting or an innocent man protesting very strongly one because they are innocent but because they are unfounded and do huge damage not just to City but to there auditors and accountants etc
These documents are also supposed to suggest city got more revenue than they should from Abu Dhabi but this to happen the companies involved would have to be related parties. Non related parties dont intentionally over pay. Neither the over paying nor the related party nature was picked up by Cities auditors and accountants or the tax man or UEFA although supposedly according to the reports if not these documents it was picked up but ignored but for no apparent reason
Clubs dont break down how much money they get from each sponsor so how can we judge whats paid or should have been paid ?
The % allegedly over paid seems very high given cities success and size of commercial review and possible fees paid by non Abu Dhabi companies and above what would be need to meet FFP as city understood it at the time. If city did this why not do it in such away they they got off FFP completely
If you look at these companies they dont meet related party definition rightly or wrongly because they are state business supposedly run at arms length to the government and City are privately owned by a member of that government not connected to these companies
The rumoured figures these companies pay other than Etihad are small fry and the figure Etihad pay is now good value and will be cheap once the campus is done and they get sponsorship all over it especially if its half as big and amazing as romoured
Some documents where illegally stolen Which tell us that City did not like or accept FFP (We already knew this ) That they negotiated with UEFA (We already knew this )
The documents dont tell us that they had the right to negotiated which they did (in fact the insinuation is that City did not have this right)
They dont tell us why City dont like FFP True mainly because it could have or did negatively affect them but also because they changed the rules mid process and because they are not fair fair given the history of Bankrolled clubs and lack of regulation pre FFP. Its anti free markets possibly to such an extent that it would constitute illegal cartel like practices Hence the strong words from city now looked down on in these documents and the media reporting of them
The documents are meant to be about City hiding costs through other entities but but the reports are an insinuation more than proof. Also we knew that city had these companies and I am not sure they actual show us anything that is wrong. A because we know that City where charged for the costs incurred by these other entities on Cities behalf. I think other clubs have multiple companies and do similar. Certainly big multinationals and conglomerates do. The debate then is about the amounts that where involved or should have been involved. If City actually did anything wrong then they would have to have got it past their auditors, accountants, the tax man and UEFA
Cities strong words are one of three things either a guilty man protesting an innocent man protesting or an innocent man protesting very strongly one because they are innocent but because they are unfounded and do huge damage not just to City but to there auditors and accountants etc
These documents are also supposed to suggest city got more revenue than they should from Abu Dhabi but this to happen the companies involved would have to be related parties. Non related parties dont intentionally over pay. Neither the over paying nor the related party nature was picked up by Cities auditors and accountants or the tax man or UEFA although supposedly according to the reports if not these documents it was picked up but ignored but for no apparent reason
Clubs dont break down how much money they get from each sponsor so how can we judge whats paid or should have been paid ?
The % allegedly over paid seems very high given cities success and size of commercial review and possible fees paid by non Abu Dhabi companies and above what would be need to meet FFP as city understood it at the time. If city did this why not do it in such away they they got off FFP completely
If you look at these companies they dont meet related party definition rightly or wrongly because they are state business supposedly run at arms length to the government and City are privately owned by a member of that government not connected to these companies
The rumoured figures these companies pay other than Etihad are small fry and the figure Etihad pay is now good value and will be cheap once the campus is done and they get sponsorship all over it especially if its half as big and amazing as romoured
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Bare faced lie. Even a blind man can see City make a point of technical fouls.
The last posts though. It's a shame we are now just a Liverpool from the fergie era. United referee conspiracies, FA influence you name it.
No longer want them to lose every game. At least these feckers will stop Liverpool from winning the league.
Naive to think our fans were any different. We'll be proper tin foil wearers the longer we stay in the wilderness.
People are going to come at me with pitchforks for this, but I’m going to say it anyway...
It is starting to get very tiring to see ‘yeah but oil money’ comments whenever city score a goal or whatever. At this point it really looks you guys only bring up their oil money out of bitterness.
Okay, yes, the way they acquired the money is not fair but you still need to know how to utilise it to develop a good team. Someone will say that city are gone clear in the title race and another person will reply ‘well with the money they’ve spent it should be expected’. If that’s the case then why are we not even within sight of top 4?
Look at us: we’re one of the richest clubs yet our team is nowhere near city’s quality and money is just getting wasted because we are not spending it where we should (in terms of positions e.g. CB, LB etc.) or we are spending it on players that don’t gel together.
I’m not even saying that bringing up oil money in itself is bitter because I acknowledge that people mention PSG, a team that doesn’t affect us as they’re not even in the same league, as well; but when you’re doing it after every good attack city produce, every goal they score, every clean sheet they keep... it doesn’t look too good.
The reality is it hurts a lot of you to see city shining while we are playing like a mid table club so you try and make yourselves feel better by reminding everyone at every opportunity that their play is generated by wealth so therefore it ‘doesn’t count’.
It is starting to get very tiring to see ‘yeah but oil money’ comments whenever city score a goal or whatever. At this point it really looks you guys only bring up their oil money out of bitterness.
Okay, yes, the way they acquired the money is not fair but you still need to know how to utilise it to develop a good team. Someone will say that city are gone clear in the title race and another person will reply ‘well with the money they’ve spent it should be expected’. If that’s the case then why are we not even within sight of top 4?
Look at us: we’re one of the richest clubs yet our team is nowhere near city’s quality and money is just getting wasted because we are not spending it where we should (in terms of positions e.g. CB, LB etc.) or we are spending it on players that don’t gel together.
I’m not even saying that bringing up oil money in itself is bitter because I acknowledge that people mention PSG, a team that doesn’t affect us as they’re not even in the same league, as well; but when you’re doing it after every good attack city produce, every goal they score, every clean sheet they keep... it doesn’t look too good.
The reality is it hurts a lot of you to see city shining while we are playing like a mid table club so you try and make yourselves feel better by reminding everyone at every opportunity that their play is generated by wealth so therefore it ‘doesn’t count’.
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Every club is like that... when they are winning everything is great, when losing its everyones elses fault, that is sport in general, not just football and not just United/Liverpool/City fans. We'll all blindly defend our clubs and knock our rivals, find excuses and we are all bitter. Thats sport, its funnily enough the thing that brings out the least "sporting side" of most people. It's great.
I agree i was naive. It's so bad now i think some of us might be having real nightmares about City.
Care to explain what’s funny?
Never has a team in the history of the prem looks to kill the game by half time.
Football was fecked before City came on the scene.
Exactly what did you hope to achieve from this post?
I’m just calling a spade a spade
Sounds familiar.
Right now, the whole City situation is making a mockery of the game in this country.
When United we’re constantly winning under SAF (funded only by our own resources), we were never able to dominate and steamroller teams as often as City do.
There isn’t a fair competition right now. For all those that say it needed to happen, to balance the Premier league, they are having a laugh.
It’s like having a Ton weight balanced against a feather.
The sooner that oil money is thrown out of the game, the better.
When United we’re constantly winning under SAF (funded only by our own resources), we were never able to dominate and steamroller teams as often as City do.
There isn’t a fair competition right now. For all those that say it needed to happen, to balance the Premier league, they are having a laugh.
It’s like having a Ton weight balanced against a feather.
The sooner that oil money is thrown out of the game, the better.
They have an absolutely fantastic football team. No one is catching them this season. It'll be back to back titles for Pep there. The sooner he falls out with someone/fecks off from there the better. His tactical set up, player development and entertainment factor are all top class. The only silver lining is that Liverpool aren't winning the league this season.
You can say all you want about City having the best team and playing the best football - and it's statistically and observably true - but you can't talk about in isolation of the amount it cost.
There's been almost no transfer window in almost 10 years now that City hasn't been the biggest spender in the league. Even our huge summer which we're massively criticsed for, City still 'quietly' spent 10's of millions more.
We have spent a lot - and we're poor on the pitch relative to expenditure - but City have spent, much, much more than us. And everyone else. They were able to buy about a dozen strikers and only keep Aguero (remember Santa Cruz? Jo? Adebayor?) They were able to buy not 1, not 2 but 3 first team full backs in a summer, to fix their aging full backs. They've probably bought 3 squads worth of players in the same time period that United have bought 1. I mean, they paid more for Danilo than any of our full backs, and the man never plays. They paid big money for a keeper, didn't like him, got a new one in one season later for big money. That's what City spending can do. City would have replaced Lukaku already, or at least spent a similar amount to get an option.
And eventually, that will tell. And it's told with 3 different managers too.
If you have the best players, and you add to that pool each and every window, you keep on top. City is a culmination of a dozen years of huge spending, and importantly continued huge spending.
You can admire the football they play and still acknowledge that - to me - they damn well should be winning the league. People seem to have become numb to the craziness. In just the last 5 seasons - so after they were utterly blowing everyone away, here are some stats:
- City have spent 150m more than us - the most critisized spending team in history
- City have spent 3.5x more than Spurs, or a similar multiple to how Spurs have outspend Huddersfield
- City have spent twice as much as Arsenal
- City have spent about 200m more than Liverpool, who are near their level
I mean, in any other sport that would be considered bonkers.
There's been almost no transfer window in almost 10 years now that City hasn't been the biggest spender in the league. Even our huge summer which we're massively criticsed for, City still 'quietly' spent 10's of millions more.
We have spent a lot - and we're poor on the pitch relative to expenditure - but City have spent, much, much more than us. And everyone else. They were able to buy about a dozen strikers and only keep Aguero (remember Santa Cruz? Jo? Adebayor?) They were able to buy not 1, not 2 but 3 first team full backs in a summer, to fix their aging full backs. They've probably bought 3 squads worth of players in the same time period that United have bought 1. I mean, they paid more for Danilo than any of our full backs, and the man never plays. They paid big money for a keeper, didn't like him, got a new one in one season later for big money. That's what City spending can do. City would have replaced Lukaku already, or at least spent a similar amount to get an option.
And eventually, that will tell. And it's told with 3 different managers too.
If you have the best players, and you add to that pool each and every window, you keep on top. City is a culmination of a dozen years of huge spending, and importantly continued huge spending.
You can admire the football they play and still acknowledge that - to me - they damn well should be winning the league. People seem to have become numb to the craziness. In just the last 5 seasons - so after they were utterly blowing everyone away, here are some stats:
- City have spent 150m more than us - the most critisized spending team in history
- City have spent 3.5x more than Spurs, or a similar multiple to how Spurs have outspend Huddersfield
- City have spent twice as much as Arsenal
- City have spent about 200m more than Liverpool, who are near their level
I mean, in any other sport that would be considered bonkers.
Some of you lot talk as if sports ownership is a new concept. Richer teams have been the best for decades, across a range sports. This is even conducive to more expensive individual sport. Professional tennis players and professional golfers don’t come from council estates. When they do it isn’t often.
City have spent a lot of money but they’re playing the quality of football they presently are because of Guardiola’s influence on the team. If and when he leaves then it’s unlikely they look as good. We need to wait and bide our time.
The wonderful thing about football is that it’s cyclical.
City have spent a lot of money but they’re playing the quality of football they presently are because of Guardiola’s influence on the team. If and when he leaves then it’s unlikely they look as good. We need to wait and bide our time.
The wonderful thing about football is that it’s cyclical.
Corrected.
You don’t think that. Not really. If money was all that mattered then we wouldn’t be outplayed by the likes of Bournemouth, Brighton and West Ham.
Money takes a team a long, long way. It doesn’t guarantee a football team. Or an attractive style of football. Or record points tallies. A brain like Guardiola plays a huge part in that. Which you know.
Consider this, if you will:
City has indeed outspent their competition by a considerably large margin and will undoubtedly continue this trend in the years to come - this is an undeniable fact - the question is, does domestic dominance, a large collection of trophies and possessing one of the greatest club sides the prem has ever seen, justify that spending?
The gap between them and the rest of the league is extremely huge and they're going to dominate for some good years.
Give them the PL trophy already. There's no point
Guardiola won't go past 4 years. He's in his third now...
And they’re also the richest club in the world so it will continue indefinitely. How do fans of other clubs deal with this? Even as a United fan it feels pointless, and we have enough money ourselves. Southampton might as well fold as a club. Money has poisoned the sport.
A scary thought.
In the event that Pep decides to stay for many years to come, The Great Man will simply step out of retirement to knock them off their fecking perch.
He might if he's under zero pressure with loads of cash for signings. At the moment, the rest of the league is not really giving him competition.
Guardiola usually leaves only when the pressure goes up a notch. At Bayern, most wanted him to stay but there was the niggling criticism that he hadn't won the CL with them.
Correct. We already see his old team bayern munich struggling to a 1-1 draw at home to freiburg this weekend. They don't have the same dominance of that league. City also were the biggest spenders both under mancini and pellegrini and didn't look as strong as now.
Hopefully pep gets bored after this season and fecks off otherwise the domination will continue into next year.
They'll just replace Guardiola with Arteta and they'll spend probably even more to ensure he succeeds.
Weather its Fergy, or whoever. Whoever stood there and let Pep joined City, not only crippled United but enhanced our rivals too.
I cant believe that Fergy retires and ALL the attack minded coaches go and join our biggest rivals.
I cant believe that Fergy retires and ALL the attack minded coaches go and join our biggest rivals.
Except he's already signed a contract extension to keep him at the club until 2021.
Sterling is worth every penny he's getting
City were consistently the biggest scorers under Pellegrini and had by far the best players.
Mancini they were buidling up and had to make the CL for the first time under this stewardship. He had a much tougher job than Guardiola.
The next manager will be given millions if not billions, if he doesn't dominate the league he'll have done a terrible job.
Time to let this one go, he’s not going to be managing the club at 80 years old.
City's success clearly a combination of having a great manager as well as the most expensive squad.
But it's not as if City have developed Guardiola themselves. They identified him as the best coach and paid him a fortune to come - not to mention hiring the highly-paid execs he'd already worked with and giving him a blank cheque for players.
people who say 'City may be hugely wealthy, but the coaching's what sets them apart' are missing the point. The coaching side has been bought at huge expense, just like the playing staff.
But it's not as if City have developed Guardiola themselves. They identified him as the best coach and paid him a fortune to come - not to mention hiring the highly-paid execs he'd already worked with and giving him a blank cheque for players.
people who say 'City may be hugely wealthy, but the coaching's what sets them apart' are missing the point. The coaching side has been bought at huge expense, just like the playing staff.
Allowing City a free run at him remains the biggest mistake pas SAF.
The thing with Pep is he is good at what his thing and his style is not just good at beating the lower teams, its brutally efficient. Money doesn't create that he does.
Let me clarify what I mean, do I believe any manager would win the league with us? No. Do I believe any top manager would? Probably. Do I believe any would get the points total Pep will? No.
He also has his drawbacks in that he's usually far too open in away games vs big sides. The thing is, in the CL or knockout football this open style can be caught out against strong teams but in the league season its so efficient you can afford an occasional tonking at Anfield, OT, Stamford Bridge or wherever and still rack up huge points totals. Over a league format Pep's style is pretty much perfect. In a KO competition where the difference in player standard reduces games become more and more of a coin flip, its arguably incredibly naive.
Anfield this season shows maybe he's willing to compromise on his style a little to get the job done so if he's added this to his locker I'll be delighted but its not a guarantee.
He's needs a strong team to implement his style and will (he has said so himself) but once given that team, no one is better in league football. I don't believe any other manager would have gotten 100 points with us last season, but I believe many would have won the league.
Let me clarify what I mean, do I believe any manager would win the league with us? No. Do I believe any top manager would? Probably. Do I believe any would get the points total Pep will? No.
He also has his drawbacks in that he's usually far too open in away games vs big sides. The thing is, in the CL or knockout football this open style can be caught out against strong teams but in the league season its so efficient you can afford an occasional tonking at Anfield, OT, Stamford Bridge or wherever and still rack up huge points totals. Over a league format Pep's style is pretty much perfect. In a KO competition where the difference in player standard reduces games become more and more of a coin flip, its arguably incredibly naive.
Anfield this season shows maybe he's willing to compromise on his style a little to get the job done so if he's added this to his locker I'll be delighted but its not a guarantee.
He's needs a strong team to implement his style and will (he has said so himself) but once given that team, no one is better in league football. I don't believe any other manager would have gotten 100 points with us last season, but I believe many would have won the league.